AR-? Help me decide!

[Guest Huntaholic]

That wasnt so hard! LOL. The 1911 is a Remington R1 1911 that I won Friday nite at an NWTF banquet. Took em both out yesterday and ran a few rounds through em. WIth the factory sites and cheap PMC bronze ammo, I was able to hold about a 2" group with the Colt at 50 yards. Of course there was the occasional flyer, but I attribute that to ME as much as anything else. What really impressed me was the pistol! I moved up to 20 yards to try it, and that sucker was dead on point of aim and would cut bullet holes!

[Guest csmoot]

you should look at the 6.8 SPC its very popular in the hog hunting community these days and does wonders on deer too.you can get bullets from 75gr up to 120 grain to fit what your hunting.i got my 6.8 from AR Performance they great guns for not too much money but olympic make some less expensive guns as does Stag Arms.I had heard the Stag were having feeding problems due to not having the m4 feedramps cut on them but i think that problem has been fixed.Another good thing is the 6.8 spc is on a standard ar platform.if you go to the 308 you'll have to go ar10 and that will hurt the pocket much more.just an option to look at,i did alot of reading on the matter before i got my 6.8 spc.good place to probe for info on it is www.68forums.com,www.ar15hunter.com and OA2.org

[Fourtyfive]

I was wondering while reading this thread, I just checked TWRA regulations and all I found was no FMJ in center fire ; but years ago wasn't it illegal to harvest deer with a caliber not larger than .223 ?

[Guest Huntaholic]

I was wondering while reading this thread, I just checked TWRA regulations and all I found was no FMJ in center fire ; but years ago wasn't it illegal to harvest deer with a caliber not larger than .223 ?

Youre correct, up until a couple years or so ago, anything smaller than a .243 was illegal to deer hunt with. They changed it though.

[Fourtyfive]

Crazy , but I like it. I think that the notion was that a caliber of those sizes only created a wounded victim as compared to a kill. Now I need to sell my pre-ban Colt Lightweight and get a beater .223.

Edited January 31, 2012 by Threeeighty

[Fourtyfive]

If you want to put a scope on the M&P Sport is there a problem with the front sight ?

[Guest Huntaholic]

I havent looked through one with a scope and front sites on it, but a friend of mine tells me its not and issue. I did look through one with an eotech and front site on it over the weekend and that setup would work fine. Yes you see the front site, but its easy enough to orient the holo in relation to it. In fact, it seemed to me like being able to see the front site in this case would be a real asset!

[Dolomite_supafly]

A scope is unable to see the front sight. It will not focus down far enough for the front sight to be an issue. Even on 1.5x scopes the front sight is not an issue.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

I havent looked through one with a scope and front sites on it, but a friend of mine tells me its not and issue. I did look through one with an eotech and front site on it over the weekend and that setup would work fine. Yes you see the front site, but its easy enough to orient the holo in relation to it. In fact, it seemed to me like being able to see the front site in this case would be a real asset!

Why? To me, it's just in the way. It doesn't help you aim the rifle.

[Fourtyfive]

Is the M&P Optic Ready really worth the $300 extra over the M&P Sport at Academy Sports ? Other than a Chrome barrel and 1/9 vs. 1/8 whats the diff ?

[Fourtyfive]

A scope is unable to see the front sight. It will not focus down far enough for the front sight to be an issue. Even on 1.5x scopes the front sight is not an issue.

Dolomite

Do you have to use high mount rings ?

[JeffL]

Do you have to use high mount rings ?

No. With my 4x ACOG there was a slight blur of the front sight but it didn't interfere with shooting. Front sight post is gone now though .

[Fourtyfive]

No. With my 4x ACOG there was a slight blur of the front sight but it didn't interfere with shooting. Front sight post is gone now though .

By way of the dremel ?

[Guest Huntaholic]

Why? To me, it's just in the way. It doesn't help you aim the rifle.

Keep in mind that Ive only looked through the front site, eotech setup ONCE, but if i end up putting one on my colt, I will orient my holo off that front site.

[RWF]

i myself do not like a front sight with a eotech, if the eotech was to fail, unless you are tactical ted planning for standing off bad guys at range if the target is in the window of the eotech centered of course you will not miss.

remember the first sight is a gas block, just replace it no need for a dremel. just a note on my M & P the front was pinned and it was a bi-ch.

[mikegideon]

I just replaced my A2 front sight with a YHM flip-up.

Front Flip Sight Tower, Standard [YHM-9394] - $102.00 : YHM, Yankee Hill Machine Co., Inc. | Makers of High Quality Firearms, Accessories & Sound Suppressors, Makers of High Quality Firearms, Accessories & Sound Suppressors

[Guest Huntaholic]

Got another "question" for you holks that actually KNOW and this is in relation to the eotech/front site post discussion: Ive always used scopes in the past, and with quality optics POI shifts very little in relation to field of view/cheek weld. In fact, when checking out new optics, thats the first thing I check. YES, all of them will move some, but some will move drastically if those crosshairs arent dead center in the field of view. The same principles apply when shooting archery as well. I guess it relates to having more than one aimpoint to line up with the target in archery. A buddy of mine recently purchased a Bushmaster and he got a Bushnell Trophy red dot scope with it. I did the same test with it that I do all optics and believe it or not, it held up pretty dang good! POI appeared to only move a couple inches at 100 yards in relation to FOV. Maybe more, maybe less, didnt shoot it, just looking through it and moveing my head around. NOW, with all that said, when I looked through an eotech mounted on a rifle, that holo would move FEET in relation to FOV! To add even more confusion to this, the guy at the gun show who had the rifle I was looking through tried to tell me that ONCE ZEROED, it didnt matter what position my cheek weld, FOV was, if I could see the holo, thats where the rifle would hit. I DO NOT SEE HOW THATS POSSIBLE. Not moving the rifle, only shifting my head around, would make the holo image move FEET! THATS why I say I would orient that holo off my front site post, to lock down cheek weld and image position to the exact same place every shot. Am I wrong in my reasoning?

[TMF]

From using the Eotechs before the POI shouldn't change based on your sight picture, so having the same cheek weld each time doesn't matter.... in theory. I've never tried it out to distance that I can remember. I didn't care for Eotechs much and always used a Cmore. When looking through the back of the Eotech it will appear that the reticle is moving as you move your head, but that is due to your eye changing position in relation to what's on the other side of the sight.... that may be what you're seeing as you move your head around. If you really want to test that theory put the rifle in a gun vise and aim it at an object, then move around behind it to see if the point of aim changes.

[mikegideon]

The whole reason for a holo sight is getting on the target fast. As long as the dot is on the target, you will hit it. The position of your head doesn't matter. If your irons and holo sight are zeroed at the same distance, the dot will line up.

EDIT: Do this test. Put your rifle in a rest, and set the dot on a target. It can be a door knob across the room. Then, move your head around. The dot appears to move, but it doesn't move off the target. I don't know how it works, but it does.

Edited February 2, 2012 by mikegideon

[Guest Huntaholic]

The whole reason for a holo sight is getting on the target fast. As long as the dot is on the target, you will hit it. The position of your head doesn't matter. If your irons and holo sight are zeroed at the same distance, the dot will line up.

EDIT: Do this test. Put your rifle in a rest, and set the dot on a target. It can be a door knob across the room. Then, move your head around. The dot appears to move, but it doesn't move off the target. I don't know how it works, but it does.

I know what youre saying about the holo being for fast target acquisition, thats one of the reasons I want one. Its hard to tell much at a gun show with people being jammed in there like sardines, so I didnt get much of a chance to play with the eotech. I also agree that the front site sticking up in the FOV isnt what I would like, but I was figuring on using it to orient. LOL now Ive got another quandry running through my head, do I change the front site/gas block out on the Colt, or just shoot the irons and build another gun!? Decisions, decisions! LOL For my primary uses, I can get by with the irons just fine, but when it comes time for the kids to kill stuff with it, I really think optics are a requirement. Now I just gotta convince the wife of it!

[Caster]

When I first got my Eotech I was so friggin' confused I kept my iron up for full cowitness all the time. The holo moving about really bothered me too. BUT, it works. You just have to FORCE yourself to get used to it. My biggest trouble with it is forcing myself to shoot with both eyes open. There's no magnification so you don't benefit from closing one eye. Right the opposite, your field of view explodes when you open both eyes. I've been grouping my rifle one eye or two. From a rest, forcing myself to calmly do it right, there's no difference in groups.

[TMF]

I know what youre saying about the holo being for fast target acquisition, thats one of the reasons I want one. Its hard to tell much at a gun show with people being jammed in there like sardines, so I didnt get much of a chance to play with the eotech. I also agree that the front site sticking up in the FOV isnt what I would like, but I was figuring on using it to orient. LOL now Ive got another quandry running through my head, do I change the front site/gas block out on the Colt, or just shoot the irons and build another gun!? Decisions, decisions! LOL For my primary uses, I can get by with the irons just fine, but when it comes time for the kids to kill stuff with it, I really think optics are a requirement. Now I just gotta convince the wife of it!

With the rear sight down you won't even notice the front sight post; it'll be there but you won't notice it and it won't get in the way of your FOV, especially when you shoot with both eyes open, which is how you should be when reflexive firing. If you're set on getting an Eotech I wouldn't go through all the trouble on replacing the gas block with a flip down or building a new upper, unless you were planning on doing it anyway.

[mikegideon]

I know what youre saying about the holo being for fast target acquisition, thats one of the reasons I want one. Its hard to tell much at a gun show with people being jammed in there like sardines, so I didnt get much of a chance to play with the eotech. I also agree that the front site sticking up in the FOV isnt what I would like, but I was figuring on using it to orient. LOL now Ive got another quandry running through my head, do I change the front site/gas block out on the Colt, or just shoot the irons and build another gun!? Decisions, decisions! LOL For my primary uses, I can get by with the irons just fine, but when it comes time for the kids to kill stuff with it, I really think optics are a requirement. Now I just gotta convince the wife of it!

Or, you could go with an Aimpoint style optic mounted for lower 1/3 cowitness. An A2 front sight really bugs me with an Eotech, even if it's on a riser for lower 1/3. It doesn't bother me at all with an Aimpoint, because to sight is round, and lower 1/3 puts the A2 out of the way.

Note that a lot of folks run with an Eotech and an A2 front sight. It just bugged me enough to get it gone.

[mikegideon]

With the rear sight down you won't even notice the front sight post; it'll be there but you won't notice it and it won't get in the way of your FOV, especially when you shoot with both eyes open, which is how you should be when reflexive firing. If you're set on getting an Eotech I wouldn't go through all the trouble on replacing the gas block with a flip down or building a new upper, unless you were planning on doing it anyway.

There you go

[RWF]

Got another "question" for you holks that actually KNOW and this is in relation to the eotech/front site post discussion: Ive always used scopes in the past, and with quality optics POI shifts very little in relation to field of view/cheek weld. In fact, when checking out new optics, thats the first thing I check. YES, all of them will move some, but some will move drastically if those crosshairs arent dead center in the field of view. The same principles apply when shooting archery as well. I guess it relates to having more than one aimpoint to line up with the target in archery. A buddy of mine recently purchased a Bushmaster and he got a Bushnell Trophy red dot scope with it. I did the same test with it that I do all optics and believe it or not, it held up pretty dang good! POI appeared to only move a couple inches at 100 yards in relation to FOV. Maybe more, maybe less, didnt shoot it, just looking through it and moveing my head around. NOW, with all that said, when I looked through an eotech mounted on a rifle, that holo would move FEET in relation to FOV! To add even more confusion to this, the guy at the gun show who had the rifle I was looking through tried to tell me that ONCE ZEROED, it didnt matter what position my cheek weld, FOV was, if I could see the holo, thats where the rifle would hit. I DO NOT SEE HOW THATS POSSIBLE. Not moving the rifle, only shifting my head around, would make the holo image move FEET! THATS why I say I would orient that holo off my front site post, to lock down cheek weld and image position to the exact same place every shot. Am I wrong in my reasoning?

as everyone has said the bullet hits were the dot is no matter were it appears to be in the red dot site. that is why i have one on each of the wife's AR's because i am a terrible teacher, and this makes it easier for her and myself. just like when you were younger you knew NOT to be the one to teach your girl friend/wife how to drive a 5 speed.