AR-? Help me decide!

[Guest Huntaholic]

Hello!

Ive been pouring over the info here and on a couple other sites, and to be honest, its CONFUSING! LOL

First of all, a little info on what Im wanting an AR rifle to do. As some of yall may be aware, parts of TN has a feral hog population explosion and after getting into some over the weeekend, it got me to thinking how much better suited for the task at hand an AR type firearm would have been suited as opposed to the gun I had in my hands. Having never owned a black gun before, I figured I could hopefully ask here and save myself a lot of trial and error. Open sights are a MUST have, however, having some type of optics would also be nice. I want a barrel length of 20" and a twist rate that will handle the heavier bullets. A side rail for mounting a light would also be nice. In addition to what Ive already mentioned, Ive got 3 grandkids that will be big enough to shoot a deer in a few years and if we could combine all these needs into one rifle that would be great! SO..... with all that being said, whats out there that would fit my needs? I would prefer to buy a complete or at least nearly complete set-up as opposed to building it myself. Accuracy is also a big consideration, Im a bolt gun shooter at heart and not much into the spray and pray line of thought.

[Caster]

What kind of money can you sink into it. That will narrow it down a great deal. 1K won't go far for a rifle like you described but 2 should get everything on your list.

[Guest Frank37820]

If you're going to be shooting oinkers, I would recommend a large caliber ar. There are some complete rifles made in .458 SOCOM which will stop them in their tracks. I know a company out of Baton Rouge called Red Jacket makes them, but they're kind of pricy. You may be able to buy all the parts you need and assemble it yourself, if you feel comfortable working on firearms. Hope this helps

[Guest Huntaholic]

Im pretty familiar with large guns, Ive got a safe full of bolt guns for that area. I was looking more along the lines of something with little recoil for the kids to kill a few deer with until they are big enough to handle a bigger gun. Take my word for it, a well placed .223 will kill hogs in very short order. Since TN went to a system of permit only hog hunting, it also removed the caliber/ammo restriction. I killed every hog I shot at this past weekend with a .22 mag bolt gun! Jumping hogs out of briar thickets isnt the gun of choice for a 22 mag though. Hence the reason for an open-sighted AR. The kids and myself using it to take an occasional deer with though is the reason I would like to be able to also mount optics on it.

Money wise, well therein lies the issue! LOL Ive seen a lot of complete guns on the auction sites in the $700 range and was HOPING to at least get started somewhere in that ballpark. I realize that if I want a siderail for example, that may be something I have to add on later.

[Guest Huntaholic]

One more thing, I dont have an issue with doing some gunsmithing work. Ive done bedding jobs, trigger jobs, replaced triggers, lapped bores, etc. on all my rifles for years.

[Caster]

One more thing, I dont have an issue with doing some gunsmithing work. Ive done bedding jobs, trigger jobs, replaced triggers, lapped bores, etc. on all my rifles for years.

Well in that case, start here maybe. Be sure to get an A4 with the removable carry handle. So you can strap on some optics later. Then as funds are freed up you can change out the handguards to a freefloat quad rail or sumthin'.

Rock River Arms: Standard A2 / A4

[Guest Frank37820]

If you've done that sort of work then you should have no problem assembling a black gun. Getting the headspace correct is the only tricky thing in my opinion. I agree that a .223 is a great all around gun. That's what my AR is and I love it. I've not done a whole lot of hog hunting, but I always preferred something pretty stout when something like that can get you. Even moving up to a .308 ar would work great for deer and pretty much any other north american big game. I definitely recommend getting a heavy barrel though if you are going for accuracy.

[Jonnin]

I am not a fan of the 223 for hunting, and would recommend looking at a different caliber (which you can find in the AR platform). You can find ARs in a variety of more game-appropriate calibers such as the 243, 308, and so on. You could download those to be more child friendly if you reload, though most kids can handle a 243 bolt action and a semi auto would tame it even more.

That said a plain-jane gun can be had for $750 or so easily, such as a S&W M&P. That is what we use, and it has done very well, accurate and reliable. You may even be able to find something cheaper --- the price on an AR is mostly increased by paramilitary accessories such as excessive rails, bipods, extreme lightweight components, and match grade internals. You do not need that stuff, and certainly not top of the line versions of it (for example a $20 bipod may help you if you hunt from a prone blind or something?) but you do not need a $150 bipod made of gold plated titanium with a storage compartment that folds up into a forend grip and can doubles as a coffee maker. Or a cheap forend grip that does nothing except provide a handhold may help hold the gun steady.

I would personally avoid a carry handle and consider trying to mount a scope or co-witness scope rings and iron sights.

[JPR1959]

I bought this AR recently and think it might work, but it is a 16" barrel. Go to JoeBobOutfitters.com and use the discount code TGO and an additional 5%.

[Guest Huntaholic]

Thanks for the info so far guys! LOL Yall cant be done though cause Im not totally confused yet! As far as caliber goes, Im pretty solid on that choice, I want the .223, Ive got everything centerfire wise that I could ever possibly NEED from a .243 all the way up to a 300 Ultra Mag. This is going to be a multi-purpose set up here. Im confident that I can handload something for it that will serve us very well in the hog and deer killing arena. If I go as suggested and get the removable carry handle, how does it mount to the weapon? Is it secure enough for the rear sight to not give me accuracy problems? I guess it would help me a lot if I had ran some of these guns through their paces before, but up until recently, I never had any interest in them, figuring I could pretty much do anything I needed to with my bolt actions. I have changed my mind now though! LOL

[Caster]

A properly placed 70g Barnes from your 223 will put a deer inyour freezer. It just means a little more care and discretion on your part. Its not big deal for reasonable people.

[Guest TnTnTn]

The RR JoeBob special would be perfect for your application if you want a .223 AR. I have never shot any hogs and would probably be looking for a 6.8 but if the .223 works for you then the RR would be perfect imo-hopefully it is still available. We have killed several deer with the Win 64g pp out of our AR. It works fine if placed correctly. TTT

[Guest nysos]

The RR JoeBob special would be perfect for your application if you want a .223 AR. I have never shot any hogs and would probably be looking for a 6.8 but if the .223 works for you then the RR would be perfect imo-hopefully it is still available. We have killed several deer with the Win 64g pp out of our AR. It works fine if placed correctly. TTT

Get a flat top so you can mount optics on it, and just get a fixed rear site (not a detachable carry handle) that way you still have room for optics as well. You can get quick detach mounts for optics that will hold zero even after removing/reattaching if you spend the money (larue comes to mind). In regards to a 20" barrel, you aren't gaining anything but velocity from the extra length. Since you said you will have some little ones shooting it as well, a shorter barrel will make it more balanced and easier for them to handle.

Down the road if you feel like getting a larger caliber, a 5.56 AR can be converted to .300 blackout with just a barrel swap. Get yourself an AR15 wrench and you can swap it out on your own. Everything else on the gun stays the same, including mags but you can have yourself a bigger caliber.

Biggest things I would look into for a first AR is making sure you have one that comes with an MPI tested bolt (I know s&w does, not sure about the others listed), and the gas port on the bolt carrier being peened. Also a chrome moly lined barrel is good. General consensus is a 1 in 9 twist barrel is a good all around twist ratio, most prebuilt ARs are probably going to have a 1 in 9 twist.

[Guest Huntaholic]

Get a flat top so you can mount optics on it, and just get a fixed rear site (not a detachable carry handle) that way you still have room for optics as well. You can get quick detach mounts for optics that will hold zero even after removing/reattaching if you spend the money (larue comes to mind). In regards to a 20" barrel, you aren't gaining anything but velocity from the extra length. Since you said you will have some little ones shooting it as well, a shorter barrel will make it more balanced and easier for them to handle.

Down the road if you feel like getting a larger caliber, a 5.56 AR can be converted to .300 blackout with just a barrel swap. Get yourself an AR15 wrench and you can swap it out on your own. Everything else on the gun stays the same, including mags but you can have yourself a bigger caliber.

Biggest things I would look into for a first AR is making sure you have one that comes with an MPI tested bolt (I know s&w does, not sure about the others listed), and the gas port on the bolt carrier being peened. Also a chrome moly lined barrel is good. General consensus is a 1 in 9 twist barrel is a good all around twist ratio, most prebuilt ARs are probably going to have a 1 in 9 twist.

Ok, how bout it guys? Is the bolt MPI tested and the gas port peened? Also, if I go with a flat top, (which is where Im leaning) and not a removable carry handle, what type of front site would I run? Most of the ones Ive seen have a TALL front site.

[CM1021]

I have used many ARs for hog hunting in the past!! They will do the job just fine!! As far as your questions everyone else has given all the right answers...for the bullets your wanting to shoot go with a 1-9 or 1-7...the latter will give you the ability to shoot very heavy bullets such as the 77gr variants and heavier...as far as barrel length I would go with the 16"...20 is not going to give enough performance over the 16 to worry about it...You build a gun for under a 1k...I am building another AR right now...its a PSA(palmetto state armory) and I'm going to have about 800 in it...but I have quad rails and I will be running a red dot and back up irons...this is going to be my new close range hog gun...anything within 200 yards will die!! So what your asking is complicated or extravegant at all...

[alwaysonjohn]

If you go with a flat top I would suggest no iron sights at all. The large front sight is detracting but if you get a rifle with one there are guides on the internet to file it down if its annoying to you.

If you go with a large manufacturer you will get a good gun (Colt, BCM/bravocompany, RRA, Spikes Tactical, Daniel Defense, LWRC, Noveske, Armalite). Also I'm a fan of mid-length gas systems. For a cheap carbine length but good beginner AR-15 i recommend getting a Colt LE6920/SP6920 as long as you can find it around 1000-1200. It's a good beginner ar that you can modify down the road, plus it keeps it's value! For a good mid-length is the Daniel Defense V5 Lightweight. It has a quad rail, no sights to block your full view, and its incredibly light which is always a good thing when trekking to the woods (just call around till you find a good deal around $1300?)

If you want to spend some money on a real hog gun check out the new 300BLKOUT round down the road. There are not a lot of manufacturers making the 300BLKOUT as a complete rifle (unless you want to spend $2500 for Noveske). You can buy any ar-15 lower and and mate it with a 300BLKOUT upper. The 300BLKOUT upper is sold directly from AAC for around $1000. So you can attach which upper you want to shoot (.223/5.56 or .300BLKOUT) Most of these rifles/uppers are made to attach a surpressor from advanced armament (AAC) on them which is something to think about down the road!

[Dolomite_supafly]

If it were me I would do this.

Buy the M&P 15 Sport. They can be had for under $700. They come with a 5R barrel which is a higher quality barrel than most AR's have even at a higher price. 5R barrels are known for their accuracy (google it). The twist is 8 twist so it will handle anything that can be fed from a magazine. It also has a hardened and MPI tested bolt, another item that is normally found on higher end guns. This gun is a great basis to build upon but honestly it doesn't need anything as is.

Product: Model M&P15 Sportâ„¢

Next I would find a bolt/clamp on type set of rails. On a whim I bought a set of UTG rails to try. They clamp down onto the gun and are very stabile. They are also very durable for the price. My wife's 9mm AR wore those rails for over 7,000 rounds and we never had an issue. And so you know a blowback 9mm AR is rougher on components than a 5.56 gas gun. The cost of these rails now are around $50 and you can mount a light, foreward vertical grip or whatever you want to them. They are quad rails so they have rails on the top, bottom and sides.

Here is a set for $49.99 shipped:

2 Piece Carbine Quad Rail System UTG Style, Handguard | eBay

And the Sport has a flat top so mounting optics is easy. It also comes with a iron front sight and a Magpul rear sight for irons.

It also has a collapsible stock so your kids can adjust the gun to suit their shooting style. It also makes swapping out to a different style of collapsible stock a 10 second affair.

The only requirement you say you need that is doesn't meet is the 20" barrel. But honestly as long as you use quality HUNTING ammo you are not going to see any difference inside of 200 yards.

For the money the Sport cannot be beat. It has all the right features without you having to pay for features you don't need. And because it is built to standard AR specs anythign and everythign can be swapped out if you so desire. No need to spend a mint to get into the AR game. And with the Sport you are getting a quality gun that is backed by a major company for less than any of its competitors offerings that have similar features.

Dolomite

[Guest Huntaholic]

Ok, had a little time on my hands today, so I went by the local sporting goods store and laid my hands on a few. They had a M&P sport, which I checked out pretty good, but there are some things I think I want that it doesnt have, a charge assist bar for example. They had another line that they spoke highly of but I havent heard of them. I think it was either GTO or GTA. They had one of those with a quad rail, charge assist, adjustable stock, adjustable gas system, (yall will have to school me on that) but no open sites. It was priced at $839. Any more input?

[gnmwilliams]

Not to be a party pooper but isn't it illegal to hunt hogs now in TN? Not that anyone needs an excuse for owning an AR but I just didn't know if the laws had been revoked or something.

[Guest Huntaholic]

Not to be a party pooper but isn't it illegal to hunt hogs now in TN? Not that anyone needs an excuse for owning an AR but I just didn't know if the laws had been revoked or something.

LOL no party pooper! Yes and no! TWRA in their infinite wisdom, (or should I say TWRC) declassified hogs as a big game species in TN. NO, Joe Smoe sitting in his treestand cant just up and shoot a hog anymore. HOWEVER, they made it complicated on the landowners, but once you jump through all of the hoops by applying for a "erradication permit" up to 10 people designated by the landowner, can pretty much kill hogs any way we choose to! Baiting, spotlighting, trapping, etc... are all open to use to our full advantage. I either own or am on permits for 3 different properties. In essence, hog hunting is better than its ever been!

[CM1021]

LOL no party pooper! Yes and no! TWRA in their infinite wisdom, (or should I say TWRC) declassified hogs as a big game species in TN. NO, Joe Smoe sitting in his treestand cant just up and shoot a hog anymore. HOWEVER, they made it complicated on the landowners, but once you jump through all of the hoops by applying for a "erradication permit" up to 10 people designated by the landowner, can pretty much kill hogs any way we choose to! Baiting, spotlighting, trapping, etc... are all open to use to our full advantage. I either own or am on permits for 3 different properties. In essence, hog hunting is better than its ever been!

We just got our permit in the mail today and I can't wait to start killing!! Going to set some feeders this weekend and hunt the next few weeks!!

Being able to hunt at night and run dogs is gonna help us out a lot I think!!

[wcsc12]

Get a flat top so you can mount optics on it, and just get a fixed rear site (not a detachable carry handle) that way you still have room for optics as well. You can get quick detach mounts for optics that will hold zero even after removing/reattaching if you spend the money (larue comes to mind). In regards to a 20" barrel, you aren't gaining anything but velocity from the extra length. Since you said you will have some little ones shooting it as well, a shorter barrel will make it more balanced and easier for them to handle.

Down the road if you feel like getting a larger caliber, a 5.56 AR can be converted to .300 blackout with just a barrel swap. Get yourself an AR15 wrench and you can swap it out on your own. Everything else on the gun stays the same, including mags but you can have yourself a bigger caliber.

Biggest things I would look into for a first AR is making sure you have one that comes with an MPI tested bolt (I know s&w does, not sure about the others listed), and the gas port on the bolt carrier being peened. Also a chrome moly lined barrel is good. General consensus is a 1 in 9 twist barrel is a good all around twist ratio, most prebuilt ARs are probably going to have a 1 in 9 twist.

So much hate for the 20" barrel..I think someone wants to hug my 20" barrel....

[Dolomite_supafly]

I'm getting ready to build a 20" gun. I have a very accurate 16" gun but it doesn't have the velocity I am looking for.

Dolomite

[Guest Huntaholic]

SO many choices! Ive about drove myself and my wife crazy with looking and talking about it all! LOL I dont really know which way to go now. The guns in my initial budget are nice, but after reading, reading and READING some more, I seem to be able to find things I either want that they dont have, or they have things that I dont. For anyone thats keeping up with all my rummaging, today Im seriously considering giving up the 20" barrel and 9 twist, and going with a 16 and 7. For what I want the gun to do, I will use the heavier bullets anyway and unless I read wrong, the 7 does better with heavy bullets. Ive also had to raise my budget some, but for today, Im giving serious thought to, dare I say it, Colt. 6920s seem to have everything Im looking for in a package deal except the 20" barrel.

[mikegideon]

SO many choices! Ive about drove myself and my wife crazy with looking and talking about it all! LOL I dont really know which way to go now. The guns in my initial budget are nice, but after reading, reading and READING some more, I seem to be able to find things I either want that they dont have, or they have things that I dont. For anyone thats keeping up with all my rummaging, today Im seriously considering giving up the 20" barrel and 9 twist, and going with a 16 and 7. For what I want the gun to do, I will use the heavier bullets anyway and unless I read wrong, the 7 does better with heavy bullets. Ive also had to raise my budget some, but for today, Im giving serious thought to, dare I say it, Colt. 6920s seem to have everything Im looking for in a package deal except the 20" barrel.

That's why a lot of folks, including me, build their rifles. Then, all those choices become a positive. You also wind up with more than one rifle. Not sure what causes that