What size backup generator?

[Dane]

1 hour ago, Omega said:

I like that, I wonder how it compares to a gas run engine as far as runtime.  I do like the fact of it being able to sit unused without worrying about the carb. 

9 hours on a tank.  A 20lb propane tank holds 4.7 gallons.

[tacops]

I have two portables, one 5500w running and another rated at 6500w running.  They are both duel fuel in that they can use propane or gasoline.  I have never put gas in either of them.  If I had to I could but I can store propane long term without fuel degradation and it does not muck up my fuel systems on the gennies.

[Trekbike]

On 11/7/2016 at 0:50 PM, Omega said:

I like that, I wonder how it compares to a gas run engine as far as runtime.  I do like the fact of it being able to sit unused without worrying about the carb. 

If you already have a gas generator you can get a tri-fuel conversion kit.   No permanent changes required.   I got one of their kits on a half price sale last year.   Easy to install and my generator runs better on propane than gas.   I also have the fittings for natural gas but haven't had a chance to try it yet.   I also linked to their fuel consumption webpage.  

http://www.motorsnorkel.com/

http://www.motorsnorkel.com/propane-consumption-rate?___SID=U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBsNLVaujv0

 

[Omega]

1 hour ago, Trekbike said:

If you already have a gas generator you can get a tri-fuel conversion kit.   No permanent changes required.   I got one of their kits on a half price sale last year.   Easy to install and my generator runs better on propane than gas.   I also have the fittings for natural gas but haven't had a chance to try it yet.   I also linked to their fuel consumption webpage.  

http://www.motorsnorkel.com/

http://www.motorsnorkel.com/propane-consumption-rate?___SID=U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBsNLVaujv0

 

Thanks for the link, will definitely get one of those.  Wonder if you can get the pieces to switch between units?

[m16ty]

I've got a military MEP-003a 10kw diesel generator. I can run the whole house, including the a/c. The only down side is it's as loud as a freight train. It's not a problem out in the country where I am but could be a problem in a neighborhood.

I got into a discussion on another site where people were going to great lengths to try to get their generator to get them through a SHTF scenario. My advise was to say your time would be better spent learning how to live without electricity than it would be trying to get a generator setup to get you through a extended outage. Generators are great getting you through relatively short outages caused by weather events and such but it will just suck up resources in a true SHTF ordeal.  Lots of people these days think you can't live without electricity, I say that electricity is a relatively new invention and people have lived for thousands of years without it.

Edited January 7, 2017 by m16ty

[runco]

My experience with generators, never enough power for the "real" things I need.  So keep this formula in mind after figuring up the amps you need since generators are mostly purchased in wattage:

 

P = I x V

Where as P = wattage

I = amps

V = Volts

Simple math if you know 2 of the values.

 

 

[tacops]

15 hours ago, m16ty said:

I've got a military MEP-003a 10kw diesel generator. I can run the whole house, including the a/c. The only down side is it's as loud as a freight train. It's not a problem out in the country where I am but could be a problem in a neighborhood.

I got into a discussion on another site where people were going to great lengths to try to get their generator to get them through a SHTF scenario. My advise was to say your time would be better spent learning how to live without electricity than it would be trying to get a generator setup to get you through a extended outage. Generators are great getting you through relatively short outages caused by weather events and such but it will just suck up resources in a true SHTF ordeal.  Lots of people these days think you can't live without electricity, I say that electricity is a relatively new invention and people have lived for thousands of years without it.

Agreed.  I have mine for short outages ( 1 day to 2 weeks range ) and temporary use.  I have other measures in place to operate without electricity long term.

[SWCUMBERLAND]

I'll be on the grid initially, but I have a K-tor pedal generator, charger and 12v deep-cell batteries laying in wait.  No computerized switching for me, I'll be there old school with old double position switches. If I luck out and get a piece with even a minimal stream, I'll have an undershot water wheel to do the pedaling,  and supposedly a pennies a day power bill. Best of all, the actual genset and charger fit in a box about the size of a size 12 men's wide width pair of  work shoes.

 

And yes, electricity has only been around for a fraction of the time of Mankind. In candor, I could do without it, if I desired to dump my radios and computer. I don't, but I do see the possibilities.

SWC a/k/a KI7CIL

[bersaguy]

On ‎10‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 1:50 PM, monkeylizard said:

Keep your eyes peeled on Craigslist (I use http://www.searchtempest.com to search it). You can get a good deal if you're patient. I searched every few days for about 6-9 months but ended up with a deal on a Honda EU6500is. I have yet to see even a EU3000is for as cheap as I got mine.

Yep! Keep you eye on Craigs List and then when you find what you want tell them you will do the transaction at the local police station. If they agree you may be good to go. If they say no keep looking!!!!!............JMHO

[bersaguy]

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 1:54 PM, Dane said:

9 hours on a tank.  A 20lb propane tank holds 4.7 gallons.

I don't have a generator but I do have a good stock of Propane. When I first moved here I was not aware of how efficient the power company was here so began planning on propane for heat in winter and to cook with. Bought all the stuff necessary to heat my cabin and bought Coleman camper cook stove plus I have a gas Grill. I purchased a 60 lb Propane tank and took it and got it filled at TSC. That was 15 years ago and it is still full along with ten 20 lb tanks store in my building and all are still full. I do rotate them cause I cook on my grill a lot but I really have been considering selling the 60 lb tank. The Power Company here is on top of their game when power goes out. Longest I have been without power was 4 days and that was because a wind storm took down a large tree 2 doors below me taking down the lines. The delay was not in the Power Company but in the neighbor and their insurance company dragging their feet about getting someone out to cut the tree up and get it of the lines. Power Company won't do that unless it is in the street and this one was in their back yard. I also have about 50 of the small bottles on hand for Coleman cook stove and 3 propane lanterns with about 25 packs of mantles. Right now I think it may be over kill but who knows what tomorrow might bring?................JMHO

[monkeylizard]

wow....Arise, Zombie Thread!

[SWCUMBERLAND]

10 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

wow....Arise, Zombie Thread!

Just late to the game is all. And, as previously stated, I'd think revisiting older threads with new perspectives would be seen as a good thing.

[Omega]

Yea, and some like this thread remind me of things I meant to do, such as that darn snorkel I meant to get.  

@bersaguy : have you looked into the date of manufacture/inspection date on some of your tanks?  I was going to buy a larger tank than my two 20lb tanks on my travel trailer, maybe a 30 or 40lb to use out at my hunting property but the inspections kind of changed my mind.  Right now, I refill my tanks until they won't refill them due to the date, then I exchange them.  I save about 1/2 when I refill vs exchange.

[mikegideon]

We just ordered a 15kw portable gas generator. The girl wanted to be able to run her dryer when the power fails. Wiring was easy. 50 amp RV connection box into the 100 amp panel in the detached garage panel thru a 50 amp breaker. The garage has its own 100 amp panel, which fed by the 200A panel in the main house. Kill the 200A main, plug the generator in, and flip on its breaker. Gonna have to rig a way to monitor utility power so we know when it comes back on.

I plan to buy a 30 gallon roll around transfer tank to hold extra fuel. Will use fuel stabilizer in the genset and the storage tank. 

[bersaguy]

31 minutes ago, Omega said:

Yea, and some like this thread remind me of things I meant to do, such as that darn snorkel I meant to get.  

@bersaguy : have you looked into the date of manufacture/inspection date on some of your tanks?  I was going to buy a larger tank than my two 20lb tanks on my travel trailer, maybe a 30 or 40lb to use out at my hunting property but the inspections kind of changed my mind.  Right now, I refill my tanks until they won't refill them due to the date, then I exchange them.  I save about 1/2 when I refill vs exchange.

Yea Omega, I know that the date of the big tank is expired and it went out of date in 3 years. I was going to hook it up to my grill when I learned that the tank has an expiration date on it and then I learned something I didn't know. If you own a big tank like mine and the date expires you can take it to a Service Center such as Ameriagas and they will test the tank and if it is still safe they will update the tank for another 3 years and stamp it as updated. Any licensed Dealer can test your tank and update it for you and won't charge you if you have it filled there after they test it. TSC is not a certified dealer but just a refill center. As for the small tanks, I take those to Walmart or Academy Sports or about any swapping station that sells the Rhino refills and they just swap it out and don't bother looking at dates. So my big tank can be tested and refilled if I even need to use it..............

[Omega]

6 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

Yea Omega, I know that the date of the big tank is expired and it went out of date in 3 years. I was going to hook it up to my grill when I learned that the tank has an expiration date on it and then I learned something I didn't know. If you own a big tank like mine and the date expires you can take it to a Service Center such as Ameriagas and they will test the tank and if it is still safe they will update the tank for another 3 years and stamp it as updated. Any licensed Dealer can test your tank and update it for you and won't charge you if you have it filled there after they test it. TSC is not a certified dealer but just a refill center. As for the small tanks, I take those to Walmart or Academy Sports or about any swapping station that sells the Rhino refills and they just swap it out and don't bother looking at dates. So my big tank can be tested and refilled if I even need to use it..............

Yea, I exchange my old tanks too.  Didn't know amerigas would test for free, I may just get a bigger one now.

[bersaguy]

14 minutes ago, Omega said:

Yea, I exchange my old tanks too.  Didn't know amerigas would test for free, I may just get a bigger one now.

Yea, I didn't know about it either till I was over at a buddy's house and Ameriagas tanker was their filling up their big tank they heat with and I mentioned something to the driver and he was the one that told me to take it out their office and Tank field where they fill tanks for folks and they would test it and recertify it if it tests good and will re-date the tank.

I bought my big tank from Amazon back about 15 years ago. They shipped it free and their price was best I could find when I was looking for a tank.

Edited December 20, 2017 by bersaguy

[Omega]

1 hour ago, bersaguy said:

Yea, I didn't know about it either till I was over at a buddy's house and Ameriagas tanker was their filling up their big tank they heat with and I mentioned something to the driver and he was the one that told me to take it out their office and Tank field where they fill tanks for folks and they would test it and recertify it if it tests good and will re-date the tank.

I bought my big tank from Amazon back about 15 years ago. They shipped it free and their price was best I could find when I was looking for a tank.

I've seen a few now and then on Craigslist but the recert always made me hesitant.  I do ok with two tanks now, but they do get spent if I use the heater more.

[bersaguy]

9 minutes ago, Omega said:

I've seen a few now and then on Craigslist but the recert always made me hesitant.  I do ok with two tanks now, but they do get spent if I use the heater more.

Back when I was buying all my 20lb tanks Academy Sports had the Rhino tanks on Sale for $11.49 full so I bought like 10 on 2 diferent trips so I have plenty of them stored out in my storage building. I will use 3 or 4 doing my grilling and then go exchange them. Before you invest in a big tank you might want to check with your local Amrigas or what ever propane company services homes in your area to be sure they do test and re-certify. I did stop in at the Amerigas Bulk station and office here and confirm what the driver said and he was correct because I have to drive passed it about every time I go to the lake to fish. 

[gregintenn]

5 hours ago, bersaguy said:

I don't have a generator but I do have a good stock of Propane. When I first moved here I was not aware of how efficient the power company was here so began planning on propane for heat in winter and to cook with. Bought all the stuff necessary to heat my cabin and bought Coleman camper cook stove plus I have a gas Grill. I purchased a 60 lb Propane tank and took it and got it filled at TSC. That was 15 years ago and it is still full along with ten 20 lb tanks store in my building and all are still full. I do rotate them cause I cook on my grill a lot but I really have been considering selling the 60 lb tank. The Power Company here is on top of their game when power goes out. Longest I have been without power was 4 days and that was because a wind storm took down a large tree 2 doors below me taking down the lines. The delay was not in the Power Company but in the neighbor and their insurance company dragging their feet about getting someone out to cut the tree up and get it of the lines. Power Company won't do that unless it is in the street and this one was in their back yard. I also have about 50 of the small bottles on hand for Coleman cook stove and 3 propane lanterns with about 25 packs of mantles. Right now I think it may be over kill but who knows what tomorrow might bring?................JMHO

I have several of those small bottles in the basement. I was moving them around the other day while looking for something else, and noticed several of them were empty and a few were partially full. I wasn't aware they'd leak down over time. Have you had that problem?

[bersaguy]

7 minutes ago, gregintenn said:

I have several of those small bottles in the basement. I was moving them around the other day while looking for something else, and noticed several of them were empty and a few were partially full. I wasn't aware they'd leak down over time. Have you had that problem?

I have not had an issue to date with any leaking down and I keep a record of how I rotate my stock. I also have by big tank in my living room in a corner covered up and directly above it is a Smoke and Toxic gas Detector I bought purposely because I knew I would be keeping the tank in my house. I also have a detector out in my storage building and to the best of my knowledge it has never gone off while I was in the building and I keep fresh batteries in both. It is easy to check to see if you have a leaker. I do it when I replace any I have used. Just make up a bottle of water with dish soap in it and put some around where the valve is screwed into the tank and also check to be sure your tank is closing all the way buy putting some soapy water in the line outlet. If no bubbles, no leaks.

[Omega]

I refill my 1lb bottles from my 20lb tank, so far no issues with leaks even though I manipulate the pressure relief valve when I refill them.  Though on occasion I have to wiggle it a bit to get them to seat well.  I have only left them sit for a year though, so no track record past that, though I have read that they will eventually need to be discarded.

[SWCUMBERLAND]

11 minutes ago, Omega said:

I refill my 1lb bottles from my 20lb tank, so far no issues with leaks even though I manipulate the pressure relief valve when I refill them.  Though on occasion I have to wiggle it a bit to get them to seat well.  I have only left them sit for a year though, so no track record past that, though I have read that they will eventually need to be discarded.

There is for sale a fitting that allows the 1# green Coleman bottles to be refilled from a larger bottle, to be sure. I would exercise caution using it, however. I seem to recall one of the propane guys (Blue Rhino, perhaps?) manufacturing 1, 2, & 5# tanks specifically designed to be refilled. Throw into the mix the blue welder propane tanks (7/8 lb), using the same threading as the Coleman 1#. They seem to me to be sturdier somehow, and what I would trust, given a choice, for undocumented refillability.

 

Out here the 1# Colemans are $3.47 each or $6.27 a pair. Can't recall at this moment what WM is charging for full 10# white tanks. All that is available where I am at is an exchange...bring in the empty and you get a full one at a reduced price. The U-Haul less than a half a mile away charges $3.29/gallon for refilling. As Dane cited that a 20# tank hold 4.7 gallons.. round up to 5.. Call it some 87¢/lb, till I get a hold of a pencil and paper to fine it down properly....Still, not too terrible a cost, and I wager at a pro propane place like Amerigas likely to be less. (Update: without rounding 77.3¢) One of the hardware folks has told me of a customer that comes in promptly every six months, after checking his inline gauges, for replacement gauges and lines. Seems he runs his cabin on propane the same way a more urban person does electricity.

 

 More back toward the generator side of the thread... Getting lighter deep-cells would be very good. Them that I have are E I G H T Y lb. apiece, and Field day '18 will be (if I can get organized quickly enough) powered off of 2 or 3 of these larger scooter batteries, with the K-tor and my old legs topping off the expended ones.

[gregintenn]

3 hours ago, bersaguy said:

I have not had an issue to date with any leaking down and I keep a record of how I rotate my stock. I also have by big tank in my living room in a corner covered up and directly above it is a Smoke and Toxic gas Detector I bought purposely because I knew I would be keeping the tank in my house. I also have a detector out in my storage building and to the best of my knowledge it has never gone off while I was in the building and I keep fresh batteries in both. It is easy to check to see if you have a leaker. I do it when I replace any I have used. Just make up a bottle of water with dish soap in it and put some around where the valve is screwed into the tank and also check to be sure your tank is closing all the way buy putting some soapy water in the line outlet. If no bubbles, no leaks.

I was talking about the little ones. There's a pair down there now, still shrink wrapped together, and one is empty and the other almost empty.

[Omega]

56 minutes ago, SWCUMBERLAND said:

There is for sale a fitting that allows the 1# green Coleman bottles to be refilled from a larger bottle, to be sure. I would exercise caution using it, however. I seem to recall one of the propane guys (Blue Rhino, perhaps?) manufacturing 1, 2, & 5# tanks specifically designed to be refilled. Throw into the mix the blue welder propane tanks (7/8 lb), using the same threading as the Coleman 1#. They seem to me to be sturdier somehow, and what I would trust, given a choice, for undocumented refillability.

 

Out here the 1# Colemans are $3.47 each or $6.27 a pair. Can't recall at this moment what WM is charging for full 10# white tanks. All that is available where I am at is an exchange...bring in the empty and you get a full one at a reduced price. The U-Haul less than a half a mile away charges $3.29/gallon for refilling. As Dane cited that a 20# tank hold 4.7 gallons.. round up to 5.. Call it some 87¢/lb, till I get a hold of a pencil and paper to fine it down properly....Still, not too terrible a cost, and I wager at a pro propane place like Amerigas likely to be less. (Update: without rounding 77.3¢) One of the hardware folks has told me of a customer that comes in promptly every six months, after checking his inline gauges, for replacement gauges and lines. Seems he runs his cabin on propane the same way a more urban person does electricity.

 

 More back toward the generator side of the thread... Getting lighter deep-cells would be very good. Them that I have are E I G H T Y lb. apiece, and Field day '18 will be (if I can get organized quickly enough) powered off of 2 or 3 of these larger scooter batteries, with the K-tor and my old legs topping off the expended ones.

I used one of the store bought refill valves a few times, but put my own together with a shutoff valve.  It's L shape makes it much easier to refill the bottles, and the shutoff valve is much better than the regular valve.

Most propane exchange places are around $20 bucks, which makes it more expensive than a refill.  But when your tank is old, it's worth it to exchange them.  Both my travel trailers had old tanks, they didn't even have the new connectors on them.

As to batteries, I'm fixin to replace my trailer's battery to one that will last longer, probably an AGM out of walmart since the one for my boat lasted a decent time.