SHTF Situation??

[Punisher84]

He might not have been charged just because the DA didn't charge him, not because of the law. Sense of fairness, whatever, not because of 39-17-1322.

I still maintain that 39-17-1322 is only written in as a defense to 39-17-1321, and not any of the preceding carry prohibition statutes.

- OS

You may be right.

[Guest Revelator]

It is my understanding on this, that it ONLY refers to 39-17-1321.

Meaning, carrying while under the influence.

Note the "under this part".

Not a defense against any of the other prohibitions against carrying (schools, parks, place serving liquor, etc).

DoubleAfterSplit?

- OS

No, the defense of -1322 applies wherever you are, not just when you're intoxicated. "Under this part" means all of Part 13--the weapons violations.

Regarding the issue of how -1322 fits in with the Castle Doctrine law ("notwithstanding -1322..."), read my post here.

[Punisher84]

No, the defense of -1322 applies wherever you are, not just when you're intoxicated. "Under this part" means all of Part 13--the weapons violations.

Regarding the issue of how -1322 fits in with the Castle Doctrine law ("notwithstanding -1322..."), read my post here.

I remember reading that when you posted it. This is why I hate legal speak. It's all written to basically say "Whatever the dude in the robes thinks."

I've had people here tell me one thing, then I've had lawyers, Cops,trainers, etc tell me another. The truth is I don't think anybody really knows and you just see what happens to you individually if you're in that situation.

That being said I'm not carrying my baton off-duty and I'm not taking my gun in a bar/restaurant. I'll carry pepper spray, continue to train martial arts, and avoid bad situations and pray.

[Fallguy]

No, the defense of -1322 applies wherever you are, not just when you're intoxicated. "Under this part" means all of Part 13--the weapons violations.

Regarding the issue of how -1322 fits in with the Castle Doctrine law ("notwithstanding -1322..."), read my post here.

+1

Remember TN Code is Has Titles, Chapter and Parts. Weapons are in addressed in Part 13 of Chapter 17 of Title 39 (i.e 39-17-13xx) So when it says "this part" it means any law in Part 13 of the above.

Of course that only covers state laws. An ex-con in possession of a firearm is violating federal law and can still be convicted of that regardless of state law.

[Oh Shoot]

No, the defense of -1322 applies wherever you are, not just when you're intoxicated. "Under this part" means all of Part 13--the weapons violations....

...

Okay...great to finally see this clarified.

My interpretation indeed wrong, and thanks for the ruling, counselor !

- OS

[Guest tnelson]

Okay...great to finally see this clarified.

My interpretation indeed wrong, and thanks for the ruling, counselor !

- OS

All of these laws suck:screwy:

Do any of these sections 4 0 8 7's matter to the armed gunman running into a Bank of America?

It wouldn't be a great idea for me to be the next African American president. The NRA would LOVE ME lol

Under my administration;

-You could legally purchase a RPG from Walmart at 3am off the shelve with no background check LOL

-With a FCP ( firearm carry permit ) -you could carry a loaded Fully auto AR-10 in the trunk of your car

[Punisher84]

All of these laws suck:screwy:

Do any of these sections 4 0 8 7's matter to the armed gunman running into a Bank of America?

It wouldn't be a great idea for me to be the next African American president. The NRA would LOVE ME lol

Under my administration;

-You could legally purchase a RPG from Walmart at 3am off the shelve with no background check LOL

-With a FCP ( firearm carry permit ) -you could carry a loaded Fully auto AR-10 in the trunk of your car

You got my vote.

[TGO David]

Yea and there is some truth in that, but when it comes to advocating breaking the law for something like this I have to say...

"It is better to not eat at Chili's, then to be butt raped in prison for 25 to life."

True. BUTt.... [sic] it just boils down to which alternative you feel is best for you. Taking the chance that you will end up having to protect your anus in prison, but alive... or taking the chance that the coked up jealous ex-husband who just walked into Chilis to shoot the hell out of his estranged wife / waitress is just going to shoot her and not shoot you and your family.

Because that is essentially the decision that the Tennessee legislators have left you to make. Break the law and go armed, or obey the law and risk becoming a statistic.

Obviously I would never encourage a person to break the law, but I feel that sometimes we need to push the legalese aside and read the statutes for what they really mean when the S hits the F.

[Punisher84]

True. BUTt.... [sic] it just boils down to which alternative you feel is best for you. Taking the chance that you will end up having to protect your anus in prison, but alive... or taking the chance that the coked up jealous ex-husband who just walked into Chilis to shoot the hell out of his estranged wife / waitress is just going to shoot her and not shoot you and your family.

Because that is essentially the decision that the Tennessee legislators have left you to make. Break the law and go armed, or obey the law and risk becoming a statistic.

Obviously I would never encourage a person to break the law, but I feel that sometimes we need to push the legalese aside and read the statutes for what they really mean when the S hits the F.

I'll work to change the laws, but as someone who hopes to be a state certified permit and Guard instructor in the next year or two I won't advocate breaking the law. That is an individual choice, but ur playing not 1, but 2 odds. Will there be a SHTF situation and if I shoot will I go to jail?

[Guest voigts]

I think the least of your problems in the situation would be whether or not jail could be a possibility. If I pull out my weapon, it is because someone is in danger of being killed. And if that is the situation, I seriously doubt you are going to do jail time. You would probably get a slap on the wrist at most. I personally have no qualms whatsoever keeping my P3AT in my back pocket at Chili's or the like, especially given that there is nothing illegal about having it in the parking lot before and after entering the place.

It is a personal call, but I would rather pick the lesser of two evils in the event that someone's life is in danger to have my gun on me than to not have it and have to sit idly by while someone gets killed.

[Punisher84]

I think the least of your problems in the situation would be whether or not jail could be a possibility. If I pull out my weapon, it is because someone is in danger of being killed. And if that is the situation, I seriously doubt you are going to do jail time. You would probably get a slap on the wrist at most. I personally have no qualms whatsoever keeping my P3AT in my back pocket at Chili's or the like, especially given that there is nothing illegal about having it in the parking lot before and after entering the place.

It is a personal call, but I would rather pick the lesser of two evils in the event that someone's life is in danger to have my gun on me than to not have it and have to sit idly by while someone gets killed.

It's all pretty words. If you think you won't do jail time in this day and age, go ahead. While we are at it I got this SWEET deal on some beach front property just outside Nashville.

[Guest voigts]

Of course you can consider the alternative that if the BG shoots you and you are dead, you won't have to worry about jail time.

[Punisher84]

Of course you can consider the alternative that if the BG shoots you and you are dead, you won't have to worry about jail time.

6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to shoot the guy, but seriously it's easy to talk big on the 'net and all, but have you ever seen anyone run through the criminal justice system?

Let's say you shoot the guy, and contrary to TGO popular opinion, you go to jail because you were carrying your gun in a prohibited location and the judge feels like making an example out of you. The jury feels that you broke the law and the DA makes a good case that you could have fled. So to save yourself life in prison you plead to Manslaughter. You do 3-5 in jail, lose your guns, your permit, your job, etc.

Not so rosy is it? Maybe you live, maybe you die, maybe you go to jail, maybe you don't. Flip a coin and spin the wheel.

[Guest tnelson]

Very good Points

A jury that would convict you on that is..

But it happens. It only take one minute of the wrong actions to destroy your entire life as you know it.

Even if the judge cut you some slack - after it was all over I'm sure to be without a job.

Laws Laws Laws. This is why I am a "somewhat" law abiding citizen LOL.

-I've never "inhaled"

- never purchased, sold or had any interaction with illegal drugs

- never robbed or stole from anyone

- and..I did not have sexual relations with that woman LOL

I am guilty of driving on a suspended license once, while drinking a long island ice tea, while packing a loaded 45 acp, with a tv screen in view of the driver, with illegally tinted windows, while blasting Nickle back at an unrespectable loud volume.

[Fallguy]

6 in one hand and half a dozen in the other. I'm not saying I wouldn't want to shoot the guy, but seriously it's easy to talk big on the 'net and all, but have you ever seen anyone run through the criminal justice system?

Let's say you shoot the guy, and contrary to TGO popular opinion, you go to jail because you were carrying your gun in a prohibited location and the judge feels like making an example out of you. The jury feels that you broke the law and the DA makes a good case that you could have fled. So to save yourself life in prison you plead to Manslaughter. You do 3-5 in jail, lose your guns, your permit, your job, etc.

Not so rosy is it? Maybe you live, maybe you die, maybe you go to jail, maybe you don't. Flip a coin and spin the wheel.

Wow..maybe we shouldn't even carry period with so many chances to go to jail....damn maybe we don't even need to have guns in our homes.

As far as 39-17-1322 protecting you if you carry or use a firearm in self-defense while in an off-limits place, it is not just TGO popular opinion, but also the opinion of state legislators and lawyers on here.

As far as the manslaughter charge that would have to do with the reasons for the shoot, and not anything to do with where you were carrying.

Also not every violation of the law leads to jail time.

[TGO David]

As a matter of fact, I do know someone on a very close level that did a few years in a state penitentiary. They lost their right to ever own a firearm again as well as certain other rights. But you know what? At the end of their incarceration they walked out of the minimum security work facility a free live man.

Given the choice between maybe getting sent to prison for defending my life or the lives of my family members but seeing them kept safe because of my actions or any of my family taking the eternal dirt nap because some crazed jackass killed one or all of us... I'll take my chances with the justice system.

Frankly, this decision needs to be made before a person ever commits to carrying a handgun for self defense in the state of Tennessee. There are a myriad of ways that an otherwise good shoot could be spun as a bad shoot by an overzealous District Attorney looking to make a name for himself and an example out of a gun owner. Don't fool yourself. If you think it's all going to be roses because you were justified in shooting the guy who held a knife to your face in a darkened alley, you're seriously misguided. You might do jail time even then.

As someone who is interested in becoming a certified carry permit instructor, you really owe it to yourself and to your future students to acknowledge that possibility and teach it. People need to make an informed decision when they choose to strap a firearm to their hip. A lot could go bad with it, but it's ultimately a choice of whether you will live or the bad guy will live.

I've had the fortune of sitting under the instruction of several gifted trainers who made absolutely no bones about this fact. It was an eye opener for a lot of people in our classes, myself included.

Just my $0.02 on the matter as a father, a husband and someone who values his life and the lives of his family over the lives of anyone who would dare do us mortal harm.

[Guest canynracer]

I agree with all points here...but the reality is that you are more likely to get in trouble for carrying where you shouldnt (because someone sees it) than you are defending yourself and ending up in court.

yes, I know "What if"... but I could say the same about several things...

My point is that these are all personal choices that we all must make within ourselves.

[DavidD]

.... People need to make an informed decision when they choose to strap a firearm to their hip. A lot could go bad with it, but it's ultimately a choice of whether you will live or the bad guy will live....

+1. I've been through the HCP course twice, once for me and the second time some years later to accompany my mother. Both times were with the same local Police department but with entirely different officers running the course. They all said essentially the same thing as Tungsten's quote above. Also, FWIW, the officer in charge agreed the current laws should be changed to allow a HCP holder to legally carry at Chili's etc.

[Guest Astra900]

I don't propose a totally hermetic lifestyle, but these points are good reason to carefully plot the path of your feet.

[TGO David]

+1. I've been through the HCP course twice, once for me and the second time some years later to accompany my mother. Both times were with the same local Police department but with entirely different officers running the course. They all said essentially the same thing as Tungsten's quote above. Also, FWIW, the officer in charge agreed the current laws should be changed to allow a HCP holder to legally carry at Chili's etc.

Practically every officer I've spoken with about the issue agrees that the law is silly. The more savvy officers realize that the restriction technically applies to them also, when not in the execution of official police duties. Any time you spot a uniformed officer sitting at a booth in Chilis eating lunch, he's technically breaking the letter of the law if he is carrying.

It's a really absurd restriction and something we can all thank Jimmy Naifeh for keeping in place for so long. Hell, if Kentucky allows it then you know that Tennessee is really behind the times. They don't even let you buy beer up there on Sundays.

[Punisher84]

As someone who is interested in becoming a certified carry permit instructor, you really owe it to yourself and to your future students to acknowledge that possibility and teach it. People need to make an informed decision when they choose to strap a firearm to their hip. A lot could go bad with it, but it's ultimately a choice of whether you will live or the bad guy will live.

As someone who wants to be a trainer I won't sit here and advocate breaking the law. I will fight like hell to get them changed however.

That being said I'm done with TGO for awhile. I think alot of you guys on here, but there is some really bad misinformation going around from "experts" and "lawyers" who "know a guy who knows a guy". If you are getting information on 13-whatever from State Reps cool. I'm not. I'm getting it from my sources that I trust and work in my jurisdiction and have cases backing their views and opinions.

Everyone is so quick to slam someone who calls them out on their opinions anymore. I'm not leaving and not coming back, but I'm gonna stay out of the boards for a week or so and let these threads drift off and die. It's not worth the hassle of arguing with people I generally like over "perceptions of law".

[Fallguy]

That being said I'm done with TGO for awhile. I think alot of you guys on here, but there is some really bad misinformation going around from "experts" and "lawyers" who "know a guy who knows a guy". If you are getting information on 13-whatever from State Reps cool. I'm not. I'm getting it from my sources that I trust and work in my jurisdiction and have cases backing their views and opinions.

Maybe you don't need to blindly trust people just because you work with them, believe it or not, some LEOs don't know the law either.

Not to say state legislators are supreme source for law information either, but if you doubt them not sure who else to cite about something.

I have not seen any of these cases posted.

[Punisher84]

Maybe you don't need to blindly trust people just because you work with them, believe it or not, some LEOs don't know the law either.

Not to say state legislators are supreme source for law information either, but if you doubt them not sure who else to cite about something.

I have not seen any of these cases posted.

I don't have cases to post. I have the opinions of my company lawyers and my instructors. I would think someone who deals with this aspect of law more than the average street cop and teaches this stuff all the time would know the laws fairly well.

At any rate, this is like running into a brick wall. I won't post my opinions anymore since either I'm wrong or my sources aren't good enough. I'm seriously hoping you guys are right, but at any rate defenses aren't bulletproof. If you want to carry where you know you shouldn't go ahead. Me? I'd rather just not eat out if I'm that scared. I don't want to be a victim, but I think there is a line between paranoia and readiness.

Take care folks. I'm out.

[Fallguy]

I don't have cases to post. I have the opinions of my company lawyers and my instructors. I would think someone who deals with this aspect of law more than the average street cop and teaches this stuff all the time would know the laws fairly well.

I was just going by below.

I'm getting it from my sources that I trust and work in my jurisdiction and have cases backing their views and opinions.

Those are the cases I'd like to see. I have at least posted the T.C.A. code and other things as to why my opinion is what it is...and yes, it could be wrong. But all you have is what those you work with have told you. Which doesn't make it wrong, I was just asking for some reference to the cases so I could read them and maybe enlighten myself.

I have also asked for the lawyers name you reference, I would have no problem calling him and asking him as to how he came to his conclusion.

[Guest voigts]

Wow..maybe we shouldn't even carry period with so many chances to go to jail....damn maybe we don't even need to have guns in our homes... Also not every violation of the law leads to jail time.

Well said. Of course it is wise to be aware of possible legal ramifications, but If you are going to be so worried about the possibility of legal action all the time, then why even bother to carry a gun in the first place? after all, if you have to shoot defending your or someone else's life, you are still liable for where that round goes if it misses its intended target. There are always going to be what ifs, but I have a carry permit to try to carry legally to protect my family, and that doesn't cease at the door due to some archaic law.