Traffic stop compliance - great video

[NoBanStan]

Major props to all parties in this video. Civilized people being civilized. If only everyone could be this way. 

[btq96r]

I have an inherent problem with an officer disarming someone for their personal comfort when no other circumstances exist.  Tell the guy not to make sudden moves- fine.  Have your hand on your weapon, and the retention feature of your own holster undone- fine.  Make your first action a request for him to produce his carry permit to verify if he's legally allowed to carry- fine.  But citizens who are legally allowed to carry should be able to do so in the presence of law enforcement.

That issue set aside, the situation was handled quite well by all involved.  The interactive courtesy on the part of the officer was spot on and training worthy, IMO.

Edited October 4, 2016 by btq96r

[NoBanStan]

21 minutes ago, btq96r said:

I have an inherent problem with an officer disarming someone for their personal comfort when no other circumstances exist.  Tell the guy not to make sudden moves- fine.  Have your hand on your weapon, and the retention feature of your own holster undone- fine.  Make your first action a request for him to produce his carry permit to verify if he's legally allowed to carry- fine.  But citizens who are legally allowed to carry should be able to do so in the presence of law enforcement.

That issue set aside, the situation was handled quite well by all involved.  The interactive courtesy on the part of the officer was spot on and training worthy, IMO.

I agree, though after the officer told him not to go for it, the rider said "no way, can you take it from me?"

***edit*** added note, I think the rider also said to protect him as well as the officer. I would have to re-watch to confirm that.

Edited October 4, 2016 by NoBanStan

[btq96r]

1 hour ago, NoBanStan said:

I agree, though after the officer told him not to go for it, the rider said "no way, can you take it from me?"

***edit*** added note, I think the rider also said to protect him as well as the officer. I would have to re-watch to confirm that.

Yeah, at 1:40, as the officer was coming up to him, the rider said, "can you take it from me?"  The officer taking it was more than likely going to happen anyway since I can't see an officer letting the biker be the one to hand it to him.   Immediately after, the officer says "that's the only reason I'm going to take it, is because I see it," which leads me to believe it was his intent from the get go.

But I'm not arguing the officer handled taking the gun away in a bad manner.  The other "biker with a gun" video we had a while back shows how this officer got it right in regards to tactics and technique.

Still, disarming a citizen "just because" isn't I would consider kosher with the intent of the 2nd Amendment.  Unfortunately, with this issue, we're talking about an institutional mindset which takes some effort to change.

[peejman]

Or.... Don't ride like a dumbass and you won't get pulled over in the first place. 

[RED333]

1 hour ago, peejman said:

Or.... Don't ride like a dumbass and you won't get pulled over in the first place. 

This about a million times. I see bikes speeding a good bit, just asking for LEO to pull them over. As far as taking the pistol, well there are 2 sides to this and I will stay out of it.

[blewbayou]

2 hours ago, peejman said:

Or.... Don't ride like a dumbass and you won't get pulled over in the first place. 

I guess I feel the need to defend that.

That's normal riding behavior for me. I have 0 interest riding anywhere near cars. I routinely ride 10-15mph above posted speed limits. It significantly reduces the attention I need to pay to irresponsible drivers beside or behind me.

On a motorcycle, my primary interest is myself, if I have room to merge between two cars I go, there was nothing in that video that was a remotely dangerous or unsafe riding action.

I accept the risk of being pulled over, I've been pulled over. And like this upstanding citizen, I've been given a warning after my discussion with the officer. My life is my first priority and while I admitted speeding I plead my case that I want to keep traffic and danger behind me, officers seem to share my sentiments and understand I'm on an extremely capable machine. They give their ride safe speech and we go our separate ways.

[peejman]

9 hours ago, blewbayou said:

I guess I feel the need to defend that.

That's normal riding behavior for me. I have 0 interest riding anywhere near cars. I routinely ride 10-15mph above posted speed limits. It significantly reduces the attention I need to pay to irresponsible drivers beside or behind me.

On a motorcycle, my primary interest is myself, if I have room to merge between two cars I go, there was nothing in that video that was a remotely dangerous or unsafe riding action.

I accept the risk of being pulled over, I've been pulled over. And like this upstanding citizen, I've been given a warning after my discussion with the officer. My life is my first priority and while I admitted speeding I plead my case that I want to keep traffic and danger behind me, officers seem to share my sentiments and understand I'm on an extremely capable machine. They give their ride safe speech and we go our separate ways.

I don't disagree. The safest thing to do is to ride a bit faster than traffic flow to help prevent someone getting you from behind where your visibility and awareness are worst. 

But that was hardly what I'd consider heavy traffic and 15+ over the limit while weaving through the cars was asking for it. Having a gun in full view is the icing on the cake.  I didn't see where that was, but it looked like Florida where concealment is a requirement. 

At least the cop didn't sneak up behind him and snatch it out of his holster like that moron here did a while back. 

The lesson clearly is, be polite, do what you're told, don't be stupid, and things will work out fine.  

[Erik88]

58 minutes ago, peejman said:

 

At least the cop didn't sneak up behind him and snatch it out of his holster like that moron here did a while back. 

 

Funny story about that video that I've been meaning to post. The Lenoir City officer that snatched the gun out of that guys holster is the same one that jumped in the bed of that pickup truck and then shot the driver to death. He was later fired for an unrelated incident involving a taser.

[Garufa]

15 minutes ago, Erik88 said:

Funny story about that video that I've been meaning to post. The Lenoir City officer that snatched the gun out of that guys holster is the same one that jumped in the bed of that pickup truck and then shot the driver to death. He was later fired for an unrelated incident involving a taser.

I've been wondering if it was the same guy.

[BigK]

If everyone being pulled over acted like this guy and if every copy pulling someone over acted like this cop, the media would have a lot less to report on.

11 hours ago, blewbayou said:

...I accept the risk of being pulled over, I've been pulled over. And like this upstanding citizen, I've been given a warning after my discussion with the officer. My life is my first priority and while I admitted speeding I plead my case that I want to keep traffic and danger behind me, officers seem to share my sentiments and understand I'm on an extremely capable machine. They give their ride safe speech and we go our separate ways.

This is my modus operandi as well. I'm not riding in a pack of vehicles that outweigh my motorcycle by a ton or more. That's more dangerous than speeding. Plus, I've only been pulled over for speeding once since I was a teenager and never on a motorcycle...ever. Lucky? Strategic? Who knows?

[Capbyrd]

3 hours ago, peejman said:

The lesson clearly is, be polite, do what you're told, don't be stupid, and things will work out fine.  

 Sadly, that isn't always the case (working out fine), but it does lessen the chances of a bad incident. 

Edited October 5, 2016 by Capbyrd

[Omega]

12 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

 Sadly, that isn't always the case (working out fine), but it does lessen the chances of a bad incident. 

Well, shoot.  Here I thought you were going to say the cop had no reason to pull him over since there was no victim.

jk, this is actually my very thought exactly. 

The problem I have with this is not the gun part, that went smooth, (I didn't see the vid, just going of the posts) is the weaving in and out part.  I always see these guys weaving through traffic barely leaving themselves any room in front and behind them.  Most times they are in and out before I can react, but a couple times the car in front of me stopped suddenly making them slam their brakes thereby making me do the same.  Luckily my reflexes have been quick enough, only been rear ended by a bike once, damn shame about his Harley, and I only lost a tailgate and bumper, no major injuries on either side.  I had to stop because of a car pulling in front of me, the guy had lost some skin on his knuckles but his bike lost the forks and maybe bent the frame.  He had no insurance (ticketed) but he squared me away with a used bumper and tailgate. I rode around with a blue tailgate on my white truck for years.  Twice here a biker has wrecked in front of me here in TN, once for some reason he accelerated right into the rear end of an SUV (his fault) and once a vehicle pulled out in front of a biker (cars fault I think, but didn't see it) who then glanced off them and slid into oncoming traffic(bike only) hitting the vehicle in front of me.  Towed that one home since it was a fellow NightStalker, he had to be sent to the hospital.  Thing is, I see bikers in places they don't belong trying to go through traffic instead of with traffic.  Nobody expects a bike to pass on the shoulder or to slide into a space a car can't occupy, heck some cars do too!, so while it may work for some, I know not all get away with it.

[Capbyrd]

2 hours ago, Omega said:

Well, shoot.  Here I thought you were going to say the cop had no reason to pull him over since there was no victim.

jk, this is actually my very thought exactly. 

The problem I have with this is not the gun part, that went smooth, (I didn't see the vid, just going of the posts) is the weaving in and out part.  I always see these guys weaving through traffic barely leaving themselves any room in front and behind them.  Most times they are in and out before I can react, but a couple times the car in front of me stopped suddenly making them slam their brakes thereby making me do the same.  Luckily my reflexes have been quick enough, only been rear ended by a bike once, damn shame about his Harley, and I only lost a tailgate and bumper, no major injuries on either side.  I had to stop because of a car pulling in front of me, the guy had lost some skin on his knuckles but his bike lost the forks and maybe bent the frame.  He had no insurance (ticketed) but he squared me away with a used bumper and tailgate. I rode around with a blue tailgate on my white truck for years.  Twice here a biker has wrecked in front of me here in TN, once for some reason he accelerated right into the rear end of an SUV (his fault) and once a vehicle pulled out in front of a biker (cars fault I think, but didn't see it) who then glanced off them and slid into oncoming traffic(bike only) hitting the vehicle in front of me.  Towed that one home since it was a fellow NightStalker, he had to be sent to the hospital.  Thing is, I see bikers in places they don't belong trying to go through traffic instead of with traffic.  Nobody expects a bike to pass on the shoulder or to slide into a space a car can't occupy, heck some cars do too!, so while it may work for some, I know not all get away with it.

 

 

I didn't think it was necessary to drag that argument over into this thread too. 


But as for the video here, you should watch it.  I watched a few hours ago so I could be wrong, but he wasn't cutting it that close.  As a guy who rides, I can tell you that I leave myself plenty of room but from watching those same lane changes from a car's point of view, it looks closer than it is.  There are a lot of guys that ride like idiots but that isn't exclusive to bikes.  Plenty of idiots in cars too.  When I ride, I'm very mindful of laws and I try my best to never speed and I don't lane split or use the shoulder, but there have been times when it was simply not safe for me to do so.  I was almost hit by a car doing 60 because I was at the end of a traffic jam on the interstate.  I got very lucky.  I've sat in 90+ degree weather on the interstate in stand still traffic on an air cooled bike.  I got burns on my legs and was lucky I didn't damage my engine.  If it was legal, I would have lane split or used the shoulder to get off the interstate and take a route that would have let air move over the engine.  In the case of the guy in the video, I don't think he was doing anything major, I think its more likely that riding that way just gave them the excuse they needed to pull the guy over.  At least around Memphis, bikers are targeted because a lot of them don't have M endorsements or tags, or both.  Cops look for any reason to pull them over hoping that they will score a guy with a warrant or meet their quota of income for the month. 

 

[Murgatroy]

It is my understanding that a lot of motorcycle enthusiasts, everywhere, ride without the endorsement. I would assume it is like sport fishing to find a reason to pull them over and throw back the legal ones...