Bank Carry?

[Guest httytddy]

I recently completed the handgun permit class and have applied for the permit. One of the things the instructor said in the class was that carrying into a bank was not allowed in Tennessee. I didn't argue with the guy, but I'm almost certain that banks are not off limits unless they have the correct signage on the door prohibiting handguns...unless I've missed something in reading the laws. I think he was wrong on this one. Anyone have an opinion? Was he right or wrong?

Also noticed that, in the video you have to watch during the class, they say "carrying a handgun is a privilege in the state of Tennessee, not a right".

[shaftbass]

You're correct. Your instructor is wrong about bank carry when it comes to private banks.

When it comes to federal banks though, I don't really the law there since carry is prohibited in "federal buildings."

[Guest JCE]

Your instructor is wrong, unless the bank's properly posted under TCA 39-17-1359, there's no reason you can't carry in there

[Guest Hyaloid]

Ask him to quote the law in Tennessee that states this is so.

[Guest db99wj]

It is fine to carry into a bank as mentioned above, I would not open carry, every teller and deskside person might be hitting their little buttons. Open carry in my branch and I am going to ask you about it, ask what you think of >insert make and model< how does it shoot, what I have, etc...

[The Rabbi]

Packing.org is your friend:

• It is an offense for a person to possess a firearm within the confines of a building open to the public where liquor, wine or other alcoholic beverage, as defined in 57-3-101(a)(1)(A),. or beer as defined in 57-6-102(1) , are served for on premises consumption.
  
• Any room in which judicial proceedings are in progress.
  
• Any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field or any other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university board of trustees, regents or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution.
  
• It is not an offense for a nonstudent adult to possess a firearm, if such firearm is contained within a private vehicle operated by the adult and is not handled by such adult, or by any other person acting with the expresses or implied consent of such adult, while such vehicle is on school property.
  
• On the grounds of any public park, playground, civic center or other building facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes.
  
• An individual, corporation, business entity or government entity or agent thereof is authorized to prohibit possession of weapons by any person otherwise authorized by this subsection, at meetings conducted by, or on premises owned, operated, managed or under control of such individual, corporation, business entity or government entity. Notice of such prohibition shall be posted in prominent locations, including all entrances primarily used by persons entering the building, portion of the building or buildings where weapon possession is prohibited.

Nothing about banks. But this isnt the first time I've heard this.

As for being a privelage, Article I Section 26 of the TN State Constitution says:

hat the citizens of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a view to prevent crime.

Note prominently the word "right." Nowhere is the word "privelage" mentioned.

[dralarms]

I do a lot of business with my bank (my kind of business and theirs), I was in collecting a down payment for an alarm system and the gentleman was acting "squirrely", you know eyes darting back and forth, checking everyone that entered very carefully.

I had to ask was everything OK?

He said, if I duck under the desk then you had better follow cause I saw a gun. :eek:. I looked at him a little strange and asked him was he expecting trouble, he said no but I'm always prepared.

I said tell you what, if you duck under the desk then just stay behind me cause I ain't dieing in your bank, and if all they want is the money then fine but if they start shooting people then I will have to act and try and protect myself.

I think maybe I scared him into reality, every time I've been in the bank since them he just smiles at me a waves with a relaxed smile on his face.

[Guest Phantom6]

The Rabbi wrote:

Note prominently the word "right." Nowhere is the word "privelage" mentioned.

I may be going out on a limb here but not too far I'll betcha, but I'm gonna say that the word "privelage" incorrectly substituted for the word "right", simply comes from the Department of Safety's own language. They have been so used to telling every person that ever took a test for a driver's license that "driving is a privelage, not a right." Since they issue both the driver's license and the carry permit as well, they actually believe it refers to anything they provide service for.

... Just a thought

[The Rabbi]

You could well be right. And it is unfortunate that these two terms aren't more clear in some people's minds since there are definite differences between them.

[Guest macho999]

Sadly I think many people just assume things are illegal or laws exist that don't, mostly things on tv and movies. Here's another example:

I got a revolver from my dad a few years ago and he told me to make sure and go register it if I planned on carrying it so I wouldn't be caught with an unregistered firearm.

[The Rabbi]

Dont get me started on that one. I constantly have people coming in or calling and asking "how do I get this registered?" Or "my boyfriend wants to give me a gun. HOw do I get it in my name?" They simply do not believe me when I tell them that a gun here is no different than a TV or a mattress.

Another one I love is when guys come in, look at the AR or some of the AKs I have and say "man, is that legal??" I've taken to telling them "no, that aint legal. I'd be in big trouble if the cops came in."

[saintsfanbrian]

That's funny Rabbi.

My brother in law asked me about getting a gun registered because he wanted to carry it. I told him the same basic things about there not being a registration in TN. People don't believe me. They also don't believe me when I tell them that ordinary citizens CAN own fully automatic weapons.

[The Rabbi]

If I were less than scrupulous I would start charging people $20 to get their guns registered "in their name." I think one dealer in town actually does this.

[saintsfanbrian]

Rabbi - wouldn't that basically be a transfer? And wouldn't you have to run a background check on them?

[molonlabetn]

Yes, that's exactly what it is... but the TBI only charges $10 for this action. hence the dealer makes a profit.

I honestly don't see a problem with that, as long as the dealer isn't misleading the customer into thinking that it is necessary, as a form of 'registration'.

[The Rabbi]

No, a transfer occurrs when ownership of the gun goes from the dealer to the acquirer. The background check merely confirms that the buyer is not a prohibited person. The information on the gun is, I suspect, to check for stolen weapons. All of that information is supposed to be destroyed after 72 hours (altho I suspect ATF keeps the records anyway).

So if someone walks in with his granddaddy's Colt Official Police and wants it "registered in my name" I cannot do a 4473 and background check since the gun was never on my books.

And yes, TBI charges us $10 for each check. And one dealer I am aware of charges their customers $13 for the same thing.

[molonlabetn]

No, a transfer occurrs when ownership of the gun goes from the dealer to the acquirer. The background check merely confirms that the buyer is not a prohibited person. The information on the gun is, I suspect, to check for stolen weapons. All of that information is supposed to be destroyed after 72 hours (altho I suspect ATF keeps the records anyway).

So if someone walks in with his granddaddy's Colt Official Police and wants it "registered in my name" I cannot do a 4473 and background check since the gun was never on my books.

And yes, TBI charges us $10 for each check. And one dealer I am aware of charges their customers $13 for the same thing.

Interesting... I learn something new every day.

So, even if the 4473 is not filled out, the information/serial# of the gun is not still provided to the TBI during the course of the related background-check, in this circumstance?

I realize that it is not defacto registration, since the TBI doesn't (supposedly) keep a record of the association of the gun with the person being checked... but I would think that anyone who was mistakenly going through this process would notice if the store clerk didn't take down the information on the gun and read it off to the TBI during the check, since that was their purpose in going through the process.

You're right, either way, it sounds pretty under-handed by the FFL, TBI, or both.

[The Rabbi]

Interesting... I learn something new every day.

So, even if the 4473 is not filled out, the information/serial# of the gun is not still provided to the TBI during the course of the related background-check, in this circumstance?

I dont understand this. The background check comes off the 4473. You have to do one to get the other.

And private persons do not have access to the background check, so if you sell your shotgun to a co-worker there is no way to check and see if he is a prohibited person or not. You could take the gun down to the dealer, have the dealer accept it on his books and then turn around and transfer, with background check, to the co-worker.

Probably someone somewhere will get the bright idea to require this of all private transfers. Actually I think they do in Illinois.

[molonlabetn]

I dont understand this. The background check comes off the 4473. You have to do one to get the other.

And private persons do not have access to the background check, so if you sell your shotgun to a co-worker there is no way to check and see if he is a prohibited person or not. You could take the gun down to the dealer, have the dealer accept it on his books and then turn around and transfer, with background check, to the co-worker.

Probably someone somewhere will get the bright idea to require this of all private transfers. Actually I think they do in Illinois.

Well, now, I'm confused then... since you're saying that you can't do a BG check on a person who hasn't filled out a 4473, but you can't do a 4473 on a gun which has never been on your books...

How are these dealers doing TBI checks on guns which customers bring in, cold?

If they are accepting the gun onto their books for the sole purpose of turning around and transferring it to the specific person requesting that, is there anything wrong with doing so, legally?

[molonlabetn]

Back on-topic.

I've carried, openly even, in Federal Credit Unions... They are not federal buildings.

Federal Reserve banks are federal buildings (as far as I am aware, anyways). I don't have much cause to go inside those, however... and they are uncommon.

[The Rabbi]

Aha, I think I see the problem.

There are two checks. There is the background check with 4473 on the buyer/transferee. That's mandatory.

Then there is the stolen weapon check when the dealer takes the gun onto his books. This check is not mandatory (I dont always do it myself). If the gun is stolen then of course it will show up when it is transferred off the dealer's books to an individual. That sometimes happens when the gun is reported stolen between the time a dealer takes it in and when he sells it.

[Guest Phantom6]

Hmm. $20 for putting a gun in someone's name. Let's see, how could that work?

-----------------------------------

Dear Mr. Rabbi,

My boyfriend Bubba wants to give me a gun for my birthday which is O.K., I guess but I really don't want to do anything illegal. Its a 1911 thingamajiggy and I really think that I would like to have it put into my name. Can you help me

please?

Your friend,

Hilda Routabeast

Lot #69

Twilite Zone Trailer Park

-----------------------------------------

Dear Friend,

As per your request we have put the pistol in question in your name as is evidenced by the Official Certificate attached. Please remit $20.00.

If we can be of further service to you or Bubba please don't hesitate to call.

Your buddy,

The Rabbi

------------------------------------

The certificate makes it official of course.

Sorry, I had a spare 5 minutes and just couldn't help myself!

[The Rabbi]

I LIKE it! I'll get a bunch printed up and start charging.

I'm not kidding that people would pay money to "have the gun in my name."

[Guest Boomhower]

Boy you do learn something new everyday! I always assumed (never questioned) that a gun was registered in your name when all the information was given during the BG check. So let me make sure that I totally understand this. I just bought a new pistol a few months back. According to what I think I'm reading, my name is in no way tied to this gun. (If the information is trashed after 72 hrs.)

Hypothecially speaking, 3 months after I buy this "Brand new" gun, I sell this gun to Joe on the street, and he takes the gun and commits a crime with it, the gun can in no way be traced back to me as the original buyer if records of my transaction are not kept longer than 72 hrs. Am I seeing all this clearly?

[dralarms]

Boy you do learn something new everyday! I always assumed (never questioned) that a gun was registered in your name when all the information was given during the BG check. So let me make sure that I totally understand this. I just bought a new pistol a few months back. According to what I think I'm reading, my name is in no way tied to this gun. (If the information is trashed after 72 hrs.)

Hypothecially speaking, 3 months after I buy this "Brand new" gun, I sell this gun to Joe on the street, and he takes the gun and commits a crime with it, the gun can in no way be traced back to me as the original buyer if records of my transaction are not kept longer than 72 hrs. Am I seeing all this clearly?

No you got it muddy.

1 guns are NOT registered to you.

2 You fill out a 4473 so they can be traced back to you at any given time. Here in TN we have No gun "registeration" the info that is used to do your "background" check is done is deleted after (I'm not sure but you said 72 hrs). but the 4473 is kept for 20 years.