Food stamps and Sushi

[Rightwinger]

Amen.

I started off hauling hay, sticking tobacco and the best, cutting thistles with a grubbing hoe.  Was damn glad to have my own money at age 14.

[Links2k]

23 minutes ago, Rightwinger said:

I hope you don't think it's sour grapes for what I said.  It's when these same people demand more and more and already live lives that most of us working struggle to obtain just before we die that I bitch about.  If that's what your trying to infer, your wrong.  And there are NO assumptions when someone is buying junk food with funds that were supposed to be keeping them alive!  Its supposed to let these people eat till they are on their feet.

Maybe instead of making inferences about those of us tired of it, you might assume we know a little about the situation.  Did I happen to mention that during the years I was "struggling" I was a private investigator?  I know what I speak of from observation, research and testifying to it in a court of law. 

Corporate tax breaks?  Where did that even enter this discussion?  "Squirrel"

Calm down brother.  I'm in the boat with you.  Many here on TGO have worked our  behinds off to one day be able to sit back and enjoy the fruits of our labor. Some here will never enjoy that luxury.

 It seems that the sour grapes are coming from people who think that they're getting screwed because someone has something they don't. What if someone were to to say that they are struggling because they didn't work hard enough?

I brought up the subsidies because I feel that people are quick to criticize the poor, but have to nothing to say about corporate welfare. Squirrels!

[Rightwinger]

Envy

One of the 7 Deadly and so so woven in our culture today. 

All I want is for America is the anti communism line......to each, may he be happy with what he has earned.

[Scorpion Equalizer]

Our society today just doesn't demand personal responsibility anymore, and largely due to the politicians.That's why we are seeing more and more people on  welfare and food stamps.

[btq96r]

Guess it's the near annual food stamp rant thread time.  Time flies.

I grew up free lunch and food stamp poor.  After they divorced, my parents spent my childhood sitting on their asses.  Difference being my father was sitting behind the wheel of a truck driving all over America, and my mother just sat in the house doing nothing.  She wasn't quite a welfare queen, but she sure wasn't chipping in as we know it.  She was one of those parents that spent food stamps on junk at times, and as such I had chips, soda, and candy bought with food stamps.  I'm sure if the internet had been invented back then, someone could have gotten on and posted about some punk kid getting junk food with food stamps after seeing me.  But we also bought a lot of bread, milk, orange juice, and eggs from that same corner store with food stamps.  LINKS2K is right when he tries to get you to think about the overall context and not just enjoy confirmation bias.

Does abuse happen in the system...sure.  Welcome to human behavior 101.  But as mentioned, it's on both the abuser and the system.  There is a Kroger just over a mile away from my house, and I intentionally avoid shopping there.  I hate seeing their "EBT Eligible" stickers on items to make a lazy choice even easier.  I also loathe how Walmart is so dependent on food stamp customers that their revenue can take a measurable hit from any negative changes it.  I'd be quite fine with SNAP being limited in what can be bought, so long as it didn't get too draconian, but do you really think all those sugar food stuff companies will sit still for it?  It's been tried, and coca-cola among others come knocking on legislators doors to nix it riki tik.  The abusers are getting over and since that's what we see standing behind them in the queue at the store, that's what we tend to focus on.  But  just remember it's the companies getting rich off of it all and they're laughing at both the people making the purchases, and the taxpayers giving them the funds to do so. 

Edited September 20, 2016 by btq96r

[MacGyver]

The older I get, the more I appreciate the old Ian McLaren quote:

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting such a hard battle."

I'm certain, whether it's Kroger sushi or Monster drinks and beef jerky, few of these folks are proud of where they are.  At some point in their day they face reality - and it sucks.  Even for those few who are actively gaming the system - they know that their ceiling is limited - and that really sucks.

Do some of them abuse the system?  You bet. Are some of them being abused by the system? You bet.  Does it move the needle for me when someone who Walmart pays $7.25 an hour for 29 hours per week blows a few bucks on stupid stuff?  Not really. 

What does get me fired up however is when a company with one of the highest market caps in America depends on EBT and WIC as supplementary income for their employees so they can deliver more profit to their shareholders while delivering  those "everyday low prices."

[mikegideon]

2 hours ago, Rightwinger said:

Amen.

I started off hauling hay, sticking tobacco and the best, cutting thistles with a grubbing hoe.  Was damn glad to have my own money at age 14.

Ah, hauling hay. That job truly sucks. Caused me to go thru some miraculous career advancement, but not before I backed neck first into a wasp nest in the top of a hay loft. 

[n0rlf]

8 hours ago, MacGyver said:

The older I get, the more I appreciate the old Ian McLaren quote:

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting such a hard battle."

I'm certain, whether it's Kroger sushi or Monster drinks and beef jerky, few of these folks are proud of where they are.  At some point in their day they face reality - and it sucks.  Even for those few who are actively gaming the system - they know that their ceiling is limited - and that really sucks.

Do some of them abuse the system?  You bet. Are some of them being abused by the system? You bet.  Does it move the needle for me when someone who Walmart pays $7.25 an hour for 29 hours per week blows a few bucks on stupid stuff?  Not really. 

What does get me fired up however is when a company with one of the highest market caps in America depends on EBT and WIC as supplementary income for their employees so they can deliver more profit to their shareholders while delivering  those "everyday low prices."

What gets me fired up is the folks that think companies like the fast food places and walmart should be paying much higher. 3 issues with that thought for me. 

One, it is not a career type job. Those type of jobs are really not to support a family. However if it is all you can get then adjust your lifestyle to the situation. 

Two, No company owes you anything other than a fair days pay for a fair days work! Have you been to a Wal Mart lately. Hard to find a worker in the first place more or less one that cares or knows anything about their job. $7.25 is too much for some of those lazy people. It is also not near enough for the few that actually do work. Bottom line for me is don't like it, Study, work hard, move up and out.

Three, I am overall tired of hearing about it from folks that did not pay attention in school or try to better themselves. If you want more then you have to go get it. Work hard and find something better. Problem these days is the same entilement story. A lot of folks think they are entitled to everything.

As for Sushi, well been dirt poor in my life before, worked hard and got out of it. Like most folks we start life with nothing and have to work hard to get along. Worked 3 jobs at one point. Difference is and what bothers me is the folks that do not understand the choices and decisions you make are what is the difference. Don't run out and buy a 50" TV when the kids need shoes or food. If you have a limited income you need to do whatever it takes to make your situation better. 

 

I have a lot of respect for anyone that works hard to better themself. Not so much for someone that sits around and expects someone to give them things. Unfortunately we see more of the latter than the former. I have covered the bill for folks that looked like they could use a hand. I have also looked on in disgust when I see people making poor choices at Kroger. Kids look hungry, need clean clothes, and there are the parents buying items I personally did not see as a wise decision. However that is their decision and they have to live with it. Problem is when they look to me to assist, sure here are some clothes for the kids, some good food items and advice on where a good job can be had. Maybe even a ride to that job every day if I can figure it out. 

I have personally tried very hard to help some families make a better life. Some just are not going to get it. There is a lot to be said about this topic but like a lot of things in our wonderful country these days they are not going to do a bit of good to discuss. All it does is make noise.

A vision without execution is naught but a dream!

[tercel89]

10 hours ago, Rightwinger said:

Not trying to be better, trying to make folks see that this is total abuse of the system.  Everything I have mentioned is eye witness viewed, not second hand and please tell me where Monster and beef jerky were helping that lady live a better life?

I also worked as a stock boy and watched MOM line the kids up with 1.00 food stamps and send them in for bubble gum.  As there was no change but real silver for 1.00 food stamps, they would all flock back out and hand her the change and she'd come in and buy the smokes.  Sure setting up a moral guide pole for those kids. 

Look if your mom was in a bad situation where she needed the assistance, so be it, that's what it's there for.  But if your mom were using the food stamps for the luxury foods I've seen folks buy and get in their SUVs I can't afford to this day....I call her a free loader too.  YMMV

When I worked in a grocery store in the late 80's and early 90's I remember seeing exactly what you said about the mother lining the kids up to buy 1 and 3 cent bubble gum to get the change to buy cigarettes. Pathetic .

[btq96r]

55 minutes ago, n0rlf said:

 

One, it is not a career type job. Those type of jobs are really not to support a family.

 

 

I think the 21st century economy is challenging that paradigm. 

[Murgatroy]

11 hours ago, Rightwinger said:

Not trying to be better, trying to make folks see that this is total abuse of the system.  Everything I have mentioned is eye witness viewed, not second hand and please tell me where Monster and beef jerky were helping that lady live a better life?

I also worked as a stock boy and watched MOM line the kids up with 1.00 food stamps and send them in for bubble gum.  As there was no change but real silver for 1.00 food stamps, they would all flock back out and hand her the change and she'd come in and buy the smokes.  Sure setting up a moral guide pole for those kids. 

Look if your mom was in a bad situation where she needed the assistance, so be it, that's what it's there for.  But if your mom were using the food stamps for the luxury foods I've seen folks buy and get in their SUVs I can't afford to this day....I call her a free loader too.  YMMV

I did this as a kid. $.25 pack of gum, no tax, you got $.75 back and could go to the pool for the day. Cheap babysitting. As a child, I thought nothing of it.

[n0rlf]

35 minutes ago, btq96r said:

I think the 21st century economy is challenging that paradigm. 

Which is true but the underlying issue is why is it true? Because people today do not have the same outlooks, ethics, and ambition today as was the case in the past. It shows everywhere in our society as Entitlement disease is prevalent throughout the country. Not just in the welfare programs but all over. Look at any storm that comes through and people want the government to build them a new house? Why? Did you not have insurance? I know the insurance companies were horrible about their end but we see it all the time. A lack of personal responsibility is the norm it seems these days. Part of it is the economical changes that have occurred but that is a crutch for a lot of people. Get off your ass and better yourself. Most folks did it. You do not start at the top but rather earn it. Now in these times that is a little more difficult but can still be done. This country has a major shortage of truck drivers. That is a job that pays fairly well. It also has a lot of time away from your family though. But it can be done and that is just one example. There are lots of jobs just folks that think they should get paid $15 an hour to flip fish or burgers is driving the impression that companies are evil things. Not always wrong but for the most part it is a choice on an individual level. Either work hard and get ahead or don't and whine about it. 

Enough of my rant for the day. All kinds of issues that are part of the bigger picture with these topics that could make a discussion lst forever. Long story short is help yourself and do everything you can. If you need help you should be able to get it. Welfare should be a hand up not a continual hand out. 

[ReeferMac]

16 hours ago, LINKS2K said:

I don't want to offend anyone either, but I think more people should mind their own business.  Almost every time one of these stories is told, it's based upon assumptions or hear say.

Now if you guys are actually having conversations with said offenders and verifying the cards that they are using, I can understand your concern, but if it's just something that you are assuming or heard, that's pretty petty for a bunch of freedom lovers. 

 

I agree w/ what your saying, but in case you've never seen... they use a special voucher, are only allowed certain products, the clerk hands them a receipt that they place into a plastic pouch to turn in to verify the products purchased were WIC/SNAP approved.

They did this 3 times (as each voucher's good for about 25 bucks), and then bought the remaining products w/ a local Credit Union Bank card.

 

- K
 

[mikegideon]

3 hours ago, btq96r said:

I think the 21st century economy is challenging that paradigm. 

Or maybe things will improve to the point that we can make more than cheeseburgers in this country

[NoBanStan]

ROFL!

"Don't buy Kroger sushi!" - ReeferMac

 

[btq96r]

3 hours ago, n0rlf said:

Which is true but the underlying issue is why is it true?

 

1 hour ago, mikegideon said:

Or maybe things will improve to the point that we can make more than cheeseburgers in this country

I think we need to look at our economy and take stock of it.  We have population increases, free trade eating our lunch, and more automation doing the jobs that used to be held by the middle class.  None of this is new, it's been going on for at least a generation now.  Even if all the manufacturing jobs came back from overseas and free trade went away (not happening), the amount of work that used to employ 20 people is done by a few machines and maybe five people now. 

We have to face the truth that the economy as we knew it when things were better in this country (that's speculative, but I'm generalizing) is gone, and it's time to adapt.  What that adaption looks like I'm not sure, but I do think that if someone puts  in the equivalent of a full time job, than their wages shouldn't be below the poverty line, even if that job is low skill, service industry position that used to be for teenagers.  I use the full time benchmark because if someone is willing to work the 36-40 hours a week, then they're doing something positive to society, as I trust the market to cull the herd on jobs that aren't serving a purpose.

As to the food stamp part of all that...in theory if we index wages to the poverty line, anyone willing to work should be able to not need food stamps.  Maybe there would need to be some kind of sliding scale for working mothers based on the ages and needs of the children, but we'll always have slackers, so at best we can mitigate it to some extent.

[GlockSpock]

I think we need to look at our economy and take stock of it.  We have population increases, free trade eating our lunch, and more automation doing the jobs that used to be held by the middle class.  None of this is new, it's been going on for at least a generation now.  Even if all the manufacturing jobs came back from overseas and free trade went away (not happening), the amount of work that used to employ 20 people is done by a few machines and maybe five people now. 

We have to face the truth that the economy as we knew it when things were better in this country (that's speculative, but I'm generalizing) is gone, and it's time to adapt.  What that adaption looks like I'm not sure, but I do think that if someone puts  in the equivalent of a full time job, than their wages shouldn't be below the poverty line, even if that job is low skill, service industry position that used to be for teenagers.  I use the full time benchmark because if someone is willing to work the 36-40 hours a week, then they're doing something positive to society, as I trust the market to cull the herd on jobs that aren't serving a purpose.

As to the food stamp part of all that...in theory if we index wages to the poverty line, anyone willing to work should be able to not need food stamps.  Maybe there would need to be some kind of sliding scale for working mothers based on the ages and needs of the children, but we'll always have slackers, so at best we can mitigate it to some extent.

Simply put, if we index wages to the poverty line, the poverty line will increase:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[btq96r]

Simply put, if we index wages to the poverty line, the poverty line will increase:)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, it's called inflation. It's going to happen, but I don't think it will necessarily be rampant unless the entire economy is dealing with it.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk just to give Oh Shoot something to be grumpy about.

[mikegideon]

I wonder what folks are gonna do with their liberal arts degrees when they automate cheeseburgers. I'm glad I'm old

 

[BigK]

What food stamp recipients buy with their food stamps really DOES matter. Every penny they spend on chips and soda is a penny not spent on real food. For every convenience sized microwavable Chef-Boy-Ardee bowl, they could have a can 3X the size. I'm not saying they don't deserve conveniences in life, but these decisions aren't weighed properly at the beginning of the month and they suffer for it at the end of the month.

I think this is where these abuse stem from: bad choices. Many people on food stamps made a bad life choice. That could be as simple as marrying a bum and later becoming a divorced single mother of 3 OR not taking advantage of the overwhelming educational opportunities only afforded to the poor OR making personal choices that render you unemployable. I've got no clue of the percentage of people on food stamps due to bad choices, but I do know that people who make bad choices will do so over and over.

Part of the problem is they get that money monthly in a lump sum to cut admin costs. I think that's short-sighted. If the fed would dole out the freebies every Friday instead, there's be less waste, because people can budget a week at a time when they see 1/4 or less of the dollar amount to spend. Even people who make bad choices will be LESS apt to buy $40 worth of T-bones when they only get $90/week. However, that food stamp lottery check that arrives once a month makes them feel like they can afford to waste money on Redbulls and Slim Jims...plus, they 'deserve it' to splurge; they've been hungry the last 7 days waiting on the next check to arrive.

[bud]

.

Edited January 14, 2017 by bud

[ReeferMac]

38 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

I wonder what folks are gonna do with their liberal arts degrees when they automate cheeseburgers. I'm glad I'm old

 

Precisely my predicament and what happened when I experienced hard-times myself. I have a B.A. in Graphic Design, and a 20-year career in the printing industry. I work(ed) with hi-tech computerized equipment automating the back-end of things, and now 'my job' pays $12.50/hr (employers are still expecting a degree and experience). I drive a produce truck for a Sysco-subsidiary b/c it pays $400/wk more than I can make w/ my 20-year career in the print-biz.

Evolve, adapt, onward... sitting on  my duff w/ a 'disability' or on food-stamps was never a permanent option (but I was one of those 99-week's on UI way back when). I worked w/ a paving company that helped me get my CDL, and I've been gainfully employed ever since. Not what I invested 25-years of my life in, but, I pay my bills and take care of my family. Frankly, I haven't made this kind of money in 15-years!

[MacGyver]

41 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

I wonder what folks are gonna do with their liberal arts degrees when they automate cheeseburgers. I'm glad I'm old

 

Truthfully, I wonder what the "information workers" with their business degrees are going to do when they get replaced by an API?  It's manufacturing today.  It's fast food tomorrow.  But it'll come into the management ranks before the Gen X'ers retire.

There's some truth to the statement that if you can't find your job being done by a snake or cat in a Richard Scarry book, it's probably not a real job.

 

[BigK]

14 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

Truthfully, I wonder what the "information workers" with their business degrees are going to do when they get replaced by an API?  It's manufacturing today.  It's fast food tomorrow.  But it'll come into the management ranks before the Gen X'ers retire.

There's some truth to the statement that if you can't find your job being done by a snake or cat in a Richard Scarry book, it's probably not a real job.

 

If they're smart, they transition to the team that writes the APIs.

[MacGyver]

5 minutes ago, BigK said:

If they're smart, they transition to the team that writes the APIs.

Agreed.  

Unfortunately amassing the skills to make that transition may be as significant as the ones people in low skill jobs face today. 

I probably have the, "learn to code and you'll always be able to feed your family" conversation at least once a week.  There is so little motivation to move when the pressure is low, though.  And when times do get tough - then it's almost always too late.  

As the saying goes, "the harvest is plentiful but the workers are few."