Upcoming NRA Training in Sumner County

[Guest Len]

Hello Everyone:

Just a quick announcement on upcoming HGR Firearms courses for June:

June 23rd: 0830: NRA Basic Pistol/TN Carry Permit

June 23rd: 0800am: Basic Instructor Training (classroom-based course for potential NRA certified instructors)

June 30: 0800: NRA Pistol Instructor (for students who have completed Basic Pistol and Basic. Passing this course certifies you teach the Basic Pistol course.)

$600.00 for the whole sequence -10% TGO discount = $540.00

You may enroll in any one, two or all three, with appropriate deductions in tuition.

Personal Protection sequence starts in July.

HGR Firearms is a proud TGO sponsor -check out our banner ad.

PM me for more info.

-Len

[molonlabetn]

Wife is committed (not institutionally)... I'll have her there for the permit class.

Thanks Len!

[Guest sermon8r]

Im interested in Basic Instructor...

Im NRA RSO Certified and would like to be able to teach that only.

Also TWRA RSO Certified.

For FREE of course

[Guest Phantom6]

The guy Len works with at HGR is a NRA Trainer. He can handle your certification. His name is Greg Knox and you can email him directly at have-gun-will-travel@hgrfirearms.com or hgrfirearmsinstruction@outdrs.net. Greg is an excellent trainer. You will like his classes.

You could tell him the trainer in Oak Ridge sent you but it won't get you any discounts though.

[Guest Len]

NRA makes this a little more difficult than you may realize. In order to become an NRA Instructor (and thus be able to teach the RSO course if you are also an NRA RSO) you must be an instructor in at least one "discipline" (pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc.). So, NRA wont certify you to be an Instructor unless you also complete the basic discipline course (say Pistol), the Basic Instructor Training, and also the Instructor Training for the discipline. So to do what you want, you'd have to enroll in all 3 courses (Basic Pistol, Basic Instructor and Pistol Instructor). Only then could you teach the NRA RSO course. (Of course you'd be certified to teach the discipline course as well.)

To make a long story short, you'd have to take all 3 classes to do what you want. That said, if you are still interested, let me know and I can give you all the details & register you.

-L

Im interested in Basic Instructor...

Im NRA RSO Certified and would like to be able to teach that only.

Also TWRA RSO Certified.

For FREE of course

[shaftbass]

How much is just the permit class?

[Guest Len]

Pistol I runs $175.00 (Its the NRA Basic Pistol course, which includes the TN permit course plus a bunch more stuff.) Take off 10% for being a TGO member. This includes everything including the range fee, books, etc. Bring 150 rounds for your gun. You'll also shoot cowboy action, DA revolver, 1911, striker-fired semi-auto, with and without laser, one-handed, etc. We provide the guns & ammo for those or you can bring your own. You'll end up shooting 3x to 4x more in our course than in a "pure" permit course.

If you want a pure permit course, Guns & Leather in Greenbrier and APPS in Nashville run good courses for less $.

-L

[Guest sermon8r]

Greg was the instructor for My NRA RSO Class and is a Top Notch Guy....

Thanks for the info Len..

[Marswolf]

I have a question.

I respect some of the firearms' instructors here a great deal. They provide what I'm sure is a valuable service for real-world scenarios. The one I've actually met is a great guy and you can tell about his integrity just by meeting him. But while I'm trained out the wazoo over a 38 year period, I've never had any civilian training except for a Tennessee carry class and some unofficial training by LE agencies. So, I don't know the ropes on what most folks here are teaching or learning.

Is all of this extra course time really necessary to get certified to teach RSO? I understand that the more training you have the better, but to teach RSO??? Again, since I'm not up on civilian training, maybe I'm wrong (probably am) but this just seems like overkill.

[Guest Len]

I would tend to agree. But to disagree with the NRA is something I am proud to say I occasionally do.

Here is the gist of their theory:

1) You need to know how to teach in order to teach

2) You need to know about the topic you are teaching to teach it.

3) Being a good RSO naturally requires you to have experience with firearms, especially the types the shooters you will supervising use.

This is why they require the RSO course and the basic instructor course ("How to teach 101") and a discipline course.

So, on paper, this makes lots of sense, especially if you are in the business of selling training materials (as the NRA is) and are seriously wanting to promote a "safety first" image (as the NRA is.) That said, does it make sense for someone with your experience and qualifications to jump through all these hoops? Of course not. In all seriousness, you should be training me, not the other way around. (If you are a good trainer/teacher.)

The NRA sequences and discipline set up is a great, structured way for new shooters to get started and learn safety. The NRA Marksmanship Qualification Program (closely associated with NRA discipline courses) is also a great way for new shooters to build confidence and skill. Is it the best way for everyone? Nah. But for someone who'd like a safe, structured way into the shooting sports or personal defense, its not bad.

NRA courses will never be like what they do at Thunder Ranch or Tactical Response or the other "big schools." (Or the military.) But they serve their niche, and they have helped me become a better, safer, shooter and ambassador to the shooting sports.

I have a question.

I respect some of the firearms' instructors here a great deal. They provide what I'm sure is a valuable service for real-world scenarios. The one I've actually met is a great guy and you can tell about his integrity just by meeting him. But while I'm trained out the wazoo over a 38 year period, I've never had any civilian training except for a Tennessee carry class and some unofficial training by LE agencies. So, I don't know the ropes on what most folks here are teaching or learning.

Is all of this extra course time really necessary to get certified to teach RSO? I understand that the more training you have the better, but to teach RSO??? Again, since I'm not up on civilian training, maybe I'm wrong (probably am) but this just seems like overkill.

[Marswolf]

This could go way off topic about how well some teachers actually teach and how some people innately know how to teach and how some people with decades of training will never be able to teach, but I'll let that go for another time. (I flunked "Avoiding run-on sentences 101.")

I occasionally teach at seminars for advanced military and LE folks in certain disciplines. Am I a good teacher? I seem to get the job done. Am I certified to lead them? Nope - and there is no way I'd go through the BS to get certified by people whose level of skill is probably less than mine.

I have some real problems with certification. It is frequently meaningless and sometimes mostly a way to make money for the certifying body. It is also a way for some people to inflate their claims to expertise they may not actually have. "Hey, I paid for a worthless class and have another certificate to show for it." Lots of that in the gun training world.

So, on paper, this makes lots of sense, especially if you are in the business of selling training materials (as the NRA is)

I must confess, I wonder if this is the motive of the NRA. It makes me wary of them.

Is there no other acceptable certifying body other than the NRA?

As I think you know, I'm chairman of the local library board. During my time on the board, we have modified the minimum job qualifications for a number of positions in the system. One thing we have tried to do is have certification for top positions, like the Director of the system. So we require at a minimum a masters degree in an American Library Association accredited course of study. I've never been happy requiring the ALA accreditation to the exclusion of other accrediting bodies. Problem is, I haven't found another way to insure competence in these jobs without specifically linking it to the ALA. These standards help us be one of the best library systems in the state. We consistently outrank much larger systems. I'm proud of that.

But, as I say, I would like to have another group whose certification we accept other than just the ALA. That's how I feel about the NRA certification. We need competent people, not necessarily certified people.

I just can't accept that you need all these other NRA certificates on your wall in order to teach others to be a good RSO. It sounds like the gun safety teaching equivalent of featherbedding.