TN Park CCW Law and events

[MAD King]

Hello,

I tried to find anything about carrying a gun at an event at the Centennial Park in Nashville.

The only statement I can still find is the note on the Nashville website.

Quote

Firearms are not permitted in any park managed by the Metropolitan Board of Parks and Recreation, hereafter referred to as the Board.

Source: http://www.nashville.gov/Parks-and-Recreation/About-Us/Park-Police.aspx

There is an event i am attending as a vendor and would like to carry my gun.

http://www.nashvillehumane.org/Events/Dog_Day_Festival/

Does anyone know exactly if it is allowed now or not after Gov. Haslam signed that bill?

Thank you

Edited September 14, 2016 by MAD King

[RED333]

I will call BS on this, state law over rides local in this case. Let a few others chime in, I have been wrong before.

[peejman]

The state law changed recently to allow people with permits to carry anywhere classified as a park.  The definition of "park" is quite broad in the law.  Several municipalities have challenged that saying their "park" isn't really a park based on where it is, who manages it, who's using it and when, etc.  There's currently a lawsuit (and thread here) surrounding Chilhowee Park in Knoxville I think there may also be one in Memphis.

At the end of the day, state law says it's ok in any park.  The local authorities may or may not agree. As yet there's no significant case law to make it abundantly clear. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by peejman
Spelling

[JAB]

I can't tell you what to do, only what I would do.  As long as there are no metal detectors or searches I would carry, anyway.  Just remember that concealed means concealed.  It pisses me off that these local yokels expect us to follow their asinine local laws and ordinances but think that they should be able to simply ignore any state law that they don't like and continue to enforce laws/rules that are in clear and direct violation of state law.  What good does 'working within the system' do when any progress made within that system is in name only?

Edited September 14, 2016 by JAB

[MAD King]

Does this also apply to any events in the parks?

 

[peejman]

3 minutes ago, MAD King said:

Does this also apply to any events in the parks?

 

That's the main issue with Chilhowee Park and the county fair.   As yet, there's no definitive answer. 

If the locals says you can't carry, and you do anyway and get arrested, charged, and convicted,  then we'll know.  

[Oh Shoot]

This from TFA just today:

-----------------------

September 14, 2016
 

Knxoville Police threaten to arrest Tennessee Handgun Permit Holders
who ask if they can enter Chilhowee park armed

Members of the Tennessee Firearms Association have sued Knoxville claiming that the city illegally banned handgun permit holders from attending the 2015 State Fair that was being held in Chilhowee Park.  TFA members claimed that following a change in the law in 2015, local governments like Knoxville lack the legal authority under a new amendment to a state law (TCA 39-17-1311 and TCA 39-17-1314) to prohibit handgun permit holders from carrying their otherwise legally possessed handguns in a public park.  The lawsuit seeks to have Knoxville's gun ban policy declared illegal under state law. 

The city has challenged the lawsuit by claiming in a motion to dismiss the complaint that the plaintiffs have not "alleged an actual injury, such as being arrested, fined or even turned away by police ..."  The city claims that without such actual harm -- i.e., being arrested -- the plaintiffs, even as Tennessee citizens, have no standing to question whether the city was violating state law.

On September 13, 2016, seven TFA members approached Chilhowee Park near Gate 8 in the early evening to ask at least three different Knoxville police officers stationed there if they would be arrested if they entered the park as handgun permit holders in possession of their firearms.  Three times they were told that they would be arrested even after disclosing that they had state issued handgun permits.  The incident was recorded and observed by several witnesses.  Specifically, Ray and Kimberly Bergeron discussed the matter with Knoxville Police Department's deputy chief of patrol, Monty Houk, as they stood outside the gate to the fairgrounds.
 

Officer Houk confirmed to them that they would be subject to arrest on a charge of criminal trespassing if they violated Knoxville's ban of firearms in Chilhowee Park. The discussion was video taped.  When the risk of imminent arrest was clearly threatened by law enforcement, the TFA members politely thanked the Officer for his assistance and clarification and left peaceably - despite having their 2nd Amendment rights intentionally violated by the City of Knoxville.

"It is a travesty that Knoxville apparently did not admit to the trial court that it had established a policy to arrest citizens who have handgun permits and who desired to enter Chilhowee Park so that it became necessasry to have a group of our members go back out to the park with video cameras, witnesses, their handgun permits, their firearms, and purchase tickets just to stand outside the park and ask the Knoxville Police officers stationed there what would happen if they entered Chilhowee Park,"   said John Harris, Executive Director of the Tennessee Firearms Association.  "Government actions like this is why so many Tennesseans are increasingly frustrated with local and state government and are searching for alternatives to the traditional, career politicians who think that they are above the law."

"The courts should intervene and protect the constitutional rights of Tennesseans particularly when the state has by law denied any authority to local governments to ban firearms in public Parks" said Harris.  "Further, Tennessee's Legislature perhaps should expend a little more time making sure that citizens have the capacity to enforce their consittutional rights when infringed by local governments without having to do so from a jail cell."

--------------

 

- OS

[300winmag]

The way I understand it you are legal to carry in any park within this state whether it is city, county, or state owned.  The 'no gun signs' do not affect someone with a permit.  In fact Knoxville does seem to realize this and is threatening trespass arrest and not weapons charge arrests for people carrying at the park.

I'm not a lawyer but I don't see how you can get a weapons charge under the park weapon statute or the 'no gun sign' statute when at a public park.  I personally would conceal and not worry about it.

This is part of the actually law that applies to permits in parks:

39-17-1311.  Carrying weapons on public parks, playgrounds, civic centers and other public recreational buildings and grounds. 
  (a) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any weapon prohibited by § 39-17-1302(a), not used solely for instructional, display or sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in or on the grounds of any public park, playground, civic center or other building facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes.

(b)  (1) Subsection (a) shall not apply to the following persons:

(H)  (i) Persons possessing a handgun, who are authorized to carry the handgun pursuant to § 39-17-1351, while within or on a public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway, or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality, or instrumentality of the state, a county, or municipality;

39-17-1359.  Prohibition at certain meetings -- Posting notice. 
(f) This section shall not apply to the grounds of any public park, natural area, historic park, nature trail, campground, forest, greenway, waterway or other similar public place that is owned or operated by the state, a county, a municipality or instrumentality thereof. The carrying of firearms in those areas shall be governed by § 39-17-1311.

Edited September 14, 2016 by 300winmag

[macville]

3 hours ago, MAD King said:

Does this also apply to any events in the parks?

AG says that events (the leasing of said land) doesn't allow for parties to post park property: https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/attorneygeneral/opinions/op15-063.pdf

[dawgdoc]

MAD King, I would write a polite email asking them about this rule.  I would phrase it in a way as if I thought they were inadvertently operating under the old law, and point out the change in the law.  I would suggest they change the rule to "no illegal carrying of guns" so that they could save face, keep their security theater, and acknowledge that they can't ban permitted carry. I used this method when I wrote to the Riverbend festival, and it worked. 

[MAD King]

I consulted an attorney who is also a director for the TN firearms associations. I also contacted Chief of Police Anderson (Davidson County) and waiting for a response.

Edited September 14, 2016 by MAD King