ADD - Avoid Deny Defend

[JAB]

Most folks here are probably already familiar with this presentation or, at the very least, with the concepts discussed.  Still, a little review doesn't hurt and there might be something new to learn.  I think it is also a pretty good presentation to show to friends and family members who might not be as 'in to' this kind of thing as many of us.  Heck, just the information about the three stages of response in a stressful situation were interesting, to me.

An outside organization rented one of the rooms where I work yesterday to have a presentation on active shooter situations.  Staff here were invited to attend, as well, and so most of us sat in on the presentation.  The presentation was done by a gentleman who works for the FBI and is designed to help non-police civilians know how to respond if they find themselves in an active shooter situation.  Of course employing a firearm wasn't discussed but as many of us cannot carry at work in some ways that makes the presentation even more useful.  I was also glad to see that this presentation didn't take the, "Just hide under a desk and hope they don't hurt you," approach to dealing with such situations.  Even if people decide that their best option is to try to hide there was advice on things that can actively be done in order to make hiding from or avoiding an attacker more effective.

I work on the second floor of a two-story building and there is an exit with a set of 'back' stairs that lead to a door on the first floor which exits outside the building.  The funny thing is that, before the presentation started, I told my co-workers (who work downstairs), "Just so y'all know if I hear gunfire I am hitting the back stairs, getting out of the building, getting in my truck and I'm gone.  I'll call 911 when I get on the road."  The funny thing is that, once the presentation started, something similar was exactly what the presenter recommended.  He said that the best response, if you can, is to get to the nearest exit and get as far away as possible and then call 911 rather than calling 911 and then trying to get out.  He said, "Don't call 911 first because 911 will not save your life."  He said that law enforcement response times to such situations have greatly improved over the past, couple of years but even in the short, three or four minute interval before police/SWAT, etc. can arrive a lot could happen - and you could be quite a distance away from the threat by that point if you get a chance to get out.  That is the 'Avoid' part.

Further, he went on to recommend against simply hiding under a desk, etc.  Instead, in cases where getting away is not possible, he talked about locking/barricading doors, especially ones that open inward, doing a 'tactical cinch' (something I had not hear of or thought of) on doors that open outward and that have a hydraulic arm at the top of the door, and other such things.  He said that there are actually only two recorded instances in a mass shooting of the shooters going through locked doors and in both cases they were specifically after someone in the room.  Otherwise, shooters tend to move on to easier to access targets because they know their window of opportunity is short.  Denying the attacker access is the 'Deny' part.

Then, of course, there is the final 'D' - Defend.  He discussed that people absolutely have the legal right to defend themselves by whatever means they can in such a situation.  Of course, he didn't present an unrealistic idea that an unarmed person defending against a person armed with a gun should necessarily be the first option but made clear that it should certainly be considered as an option.  For instance, he said that if the best option you have is to hide under a desk if the attacker is coming your direction don't just hide there and hope he passes you by.  Instead, come out swinging when he gets close because a shooter in such a situation probably isn't going to expect anyone to attack him (or her) so you might be able to catch them off guard and knock them down/disarm them.

The biggest thing he talked about was situational awareness.  He discussed the night club fire at the Great White show several years back and the fact that most of the people in the crowd tried to use the one, main exit - likely because they weren't even aware that there were three other exits from the building.  He pointed out that just having taken two minutes to walk around the building before the show started to find out where all the exits were might have saved a lot of people's lives.  Instead, everyone tried to go out the front door and people became wedged in the door so tightly that people outside were trying to pull them out and couldn't.  I think he said that 30 people died in the doorway.

One of the videos he showed even mentioned the difference between 'cover' and 'concealment'.  All in all, a pretty good, practical presentation.

Anyhow, this is the website for the ADD program.  The video that is linked there (available on YouTube) is one of the videos that we were shown.  It is pretty good and I think he said it was done by or maybe in conjunction with Walmart because this is an issue of concern to Wally World.  The video from the LA County Sheriff's Department at the bottom right of the main page wasn't shown during the presentation so even folks who have seen the presentation could get more info from the website.

http://www.avoiddenydefend.org/

Edited September 13, 2016 by JAB

[broox]

Thank you for this

[WindHawk]

Good information.  I forwarded it to several folks that I care about.  Thanks.

[Jamie Jackson]

JAB,

Thanks for the excellent detailed write-up! 

Our hospital hosted an Active Shooter Class last May for the Emergency Room staff. The instructors were members of the Oak Ridge PD...which is Great considering these guys would be our actual Response Team/members in such an event. Even better is that we know them and interact with them on a daily basis.

Our class was excellent, very similar to the class you received. Even going so far as to utilize blanks in an AR platform so that students (mostly non-gunny folks) could hear the sound of a gun being fired in an adjacent room and even experience the cordite smell from a fired gun indoors.

We had several practice runs in "Team vs Team" competition (timed) at running and actively blocking/securing rooms and improvised weapon consideration.

Of course the Number one thing they also taught was to immediately evacuate the area, and as you were taught...then call from a safe distance.

We also practiced strikes, punches and elbow strikes, and low kicks on pads.

There are several guys that work in our department, but I will tell you right now I wouldn't want to back several of the ladies I work with into a corner! They obviously had some pent up aggression just waiting to be unleashed! I was impressed! 

It was a far cry from the older "Run-Hide-Fight" training of the past. Thank God!

[JAB]

7 hours ago, prag said:

JAB,

Thanks for the excellent detailed write-up! 

Our hospital hosted an Active Shooter Class last May for the Emergency Room staff. The instructors were members of the Oak Ridge PD...which is Great considering these guys would be our actual Response Team/members in such an event. Even better is that we know them and interact with them on a daily basis.

Our class was excellent, very similar to the class you received. Even going so far as to utilize blanks in an AR platform so that students (mostly non-gunny folks) could hear the sound of a gun being fired in an adjacent room and even experience the cordite smell from a fired gun indoors.

We had several practice runs in "Team vs Team" competition (timed) at running and actively blocking/securing rooms and improvised weapon consideration.

Of course the Number one thing they also taught was to immediately evacuate the area, and as you were taught...then call from a safe distance.

We also practiced strikes, punches and elbow strikes, and low kicks on pads.

There are several guys that work in our department, but I will tell you right now I wouldn't want to back several of the ladies I work with into a corner! They obviously had some pent up aggression just waiting to be unleashed! I was impressed! 

It was a far cry from the older "Run-Hide-Fight" training of the past. Thank God!

There was an officer from Oak Ridge present at the presentation yesterday.  To my understanding, that officer has been through the full police training that is a 'companion' to this one and has probably had 'train the trainer' classes.  He might well be the same officer who conducted your training.

The presentation I attended didn't have a physical component and wasn't as in-depth as yours.  There were loud, recorded gunshots as part of the presentation which, I assumed at the time, were largely there for the same reason as firing blanks in another room in the class you attended.

Even for those of us who grew up around firearms and know what gunfire sounds like it may not be immediately identifiable in an unexpected situation.  Example:

While attending UTK back in the '90s I lived at my now late grandmother's house at 2314 East Fifth Avenue in Knoxville.  There were gang conflicts in the area.  One afternoon when I didn't have classes I was at home working on a paper when I heard a loud, repetitive banging that sounded like it was coming from one of the houses near us.  My first thought (doubtless due to the 'denial' phase) was that someone was hammering.  It took probably ten or fifteen seconds for my brain to really process what I had heard and switch to, "No, you idiot - that was semiautomatic gunfire."  Sure enough there had been a drive-by shooting on a house across the street and one down from us.  Seems the owner of that house was the mother of a member of an east side gang and some members of a west side gang were hitting the house in hopes of getting him.  That was the second time such an attempt had been made (I didn't know about the first until I read about the second in the newspaper.)

Edited September 14, 2016 by JAB

[Jamie Jackson]

I venture a guess the officer was Brandon Sharp. If so he is a dialed in individual and all around good guy.

We were fortunate indeed and we're trying to arrange for an expanded version for next year as this is supposed to be an annual event for us.

Our director(one of our shooting buds) as well as our manager are very supportive for this type of training...we're an ER...our doors stay open to the public...

 

You have a good point regarding the sound of gunfire. As a part of existing normalcy bias most folks would try and "fit" the sound(s) into familiar memories and recollections. And very few people outside of our gun culture have ever experienced the sound of gunfire...especially indoors.

 

Thanks again.

[btq96r]

23 hours ago, JAB said:

Of course employing a firearm wasn't discussed but as many of us cannot carry at work in some ways that makes the presentation even more useful. 

Very logical point that we need to consider more. 

 

23 hours ago, JAB said:

Instead, in cases where getting away is not possible, he talked about locking/barricading doors, especially ones that open inward, doing a 'tactical cinch' (something I had not hear of or thought of) on doors that open outward and that have a hydraulic arm at the top of the door, and other such things.

Among those "other such things" you mention that come to mind is having something of decent size and weight that you can move in front of your door.  A bookshelf or filing cabinet might work in a pinch if they're sufficient in weight.

Great write-up.  Thanks for sharing.

[JAB]

37 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Very logical point that we need to consider more.

Yeah, my response to an active shooter if I am at, say, Walmart or at a restaurant with family or friends who are dear to me would be a little different than my response at work.  The preferred option would still be to get me and mine to the nearest exit but in such a situation I would have other considerations.  For one thing, it would be very likely that I would have a firearm on my person in the former situations (unless I am drinking at said restaurant which I rarely do anymore - too danged expensive, generally cheaper to drink better beer at home and I'd rather carry than drink in public.)  If I were armed and had to shoot to protect myself and those with me I would.  If I were armed and had a clear avenue to stop the shooter and protect others without unreasonably increasing the risk to myself and the people with me I would but our safety would still be top priority.  Further, if necessary, I'd be much more willing to take a bullet for my loved ones.  There is no one at my place of work whose life I value more than my own nor would I willingly take a bullet for any of my coworkers.  I'm not going to trip anyone on the way to the door or anything like that but if I can get out they are on their own.  Might sound harsh but in making a plan I have to be realistic and that is the reality.  Conversely, I wouldn't expect them to put themselves in harms way for me.

Edited September 14, 2016 by JAB

[Parrothead]

Very interesting and good info. We have similar training and the "exit the building" was discouraged here. The theory is the "castle" is harder to penetrate than the public area around the building. One shooter in the building is very difficult and potentially deadly. However, the fear is that one shooter flushes the building into the exit which is also the crosshairs of a 2nd shooter outside.

Because of this logic, we don't evacuate for all bomb threats. It must be deemed a credible threat--often with a visual verification. Just food for thought

[JAB]

14 hours ago, Parrothead said:

Very interesting and good info. We have similar training and the "exit the building" was discouraged here. The theory is the "castle" is harder to penetrate than the public area around the building. One shooter in the building is very difficult and potentially deadly. However, the fear is that one shooter flushes the building into the exit which is also the crosshairs of a 2nd shooter outside.

Because of this logic, we don't evacuate for all bomb threats. It must be deemed a credible threat--often with a visual verification. Just food for thought

Makes sense.  Kind of a 'pay your money and take your chances' thing, I guess.  Just another reason to be glad that the exit I am talking about using is a back exit with a door that can't even be opened from the outside and which is on the opposite side of the building from the main exit.

[JAB]

On 9/18/2016 at 11:34 PM, Parrothead said:

Very interesting and good info. We have similar training and the "exit the building" was discouraged here. The theory is the "castle" is harder to penetrate than the public area around the building. One shooter in the building is very difficult and potentially deadly. However, the fear is that one shooter flushes the building into the exit which is also the crosshairs of a 2nd shooter outside.

Because of this logic, we don't evacuate for all bomb threats. It must be deemed a credible threat--often with a visual verification. Just food for thought

I suddenly thought of the Hong Kong flick by John Woo starring Chow Yun Fat (before they came to America) called 'Hard Boiled'.  There is a scene where the bad guys take over a hospital and cause all the staff to flee.  The doctors, nurses and orderlies are pushing patients in wheelchairs and even gurneys across the parking lot and then the bad guys open up from the hospital windows.  I can't find the details now but at the time it came out in the early '90s I think it held a record for the most on-screen deaths in one scene ever.  I seem to recall reading that there were more people 'killed' on screen in that, one scene than in all the Die Hard, Terminator and Rambo movies (up to that time) combined.  Not a good scenario to consider.