Multi-gun purchase.

[vujade]

Hello.  I've typically only been able to purchase 1 gun every many months/year but I'd like to get a few AR lowers at the same time (while the wife gave me the ok.)

- Is there a limit to how many AR lowers one can purchase on a single background check?

- Is there a number where 'additional' paperwork is required (I heard about another form that needs to go to the ATF if over x amoung of guns) (or is that only for handguns).

- Is there an FFL that charges a 'fixed' FFL fee or is the standard $x per gun + background check.

Thanks everyone!

 

 

[Omega]

On lowers I don't think the quantities matter.  I think someone will quote the particular ATF ruling in a bit, or do a search here, I think its been posted before.

[xsubsailor]

 I don't know if there's a max or not but I just bought two last week. As long as they are bought at the same time, it's one background check.

The gun clerk at one of our Walmarts was telling me that a man bought 4 Ruger Americans at the same time during their clearance sale.

[vujade]

Thanks guys.  Call me paranoid but I just don't want extra attention simply by buying a few extras.  I hope someone can chime in - just verify that there isn't an extra form or flag if someone bought 3 or 4 or 5 lowers.

 

[Patton]

The ffl will fill out the form, but if the receiver is transferred as multi caliber and as a receiver the form will have to be done. I have heard how many handguns or semi-auto rifles over .223 you can have on one 4473, but I don't  remember how many. I think is like 15 or some odd number.

[Wingshooter]

Hmmm. Oops, I forgot about that  

 

I think there is a number, but I can't remember what it is.

[Oh Shoot]

1 hour ago, Patton said:

The ffl will fill out the form, but if the receiver is transferred as multi caliber and as a receiver the form will have to be done. I have heard how many handguns or semi-auto rifles over .223 you can have on one 4473, but I don't  remember how many. I think is like 15 or some odd number.

Federally, there is no limit to number of long guns, handguns, or other firearms on a single 4473, regardless of caliber or anything else. As per directions on the 4473 itself, if there are more firearms than the 5 lines on the form, an additional page is to be used to list them, and attached to the 4473.

There is something to do regarding TICS here in TN and a total number though. I believe it's only 3 if done by phone per background check. And maybe a separate call required if more than three and done online. Or something.  "Explained" within this doc, but might need an FFL to exactly translate for us. All has to do with fact that TICS, unlike NICS, actually does stolen firearm check on serial numbers. And why most TN FFLs charge x amount per firearm after the first one I guess, for the extra time hassle?

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/tbi/attachments/FFL_Guidelines.pdf

The federal "limit" people think of is regarding semiauto rifles bigger than .22 with detachable magazine, in the 4 southern border states only. Requires additional form, though, not a limit. Same for multiple handgun sales (in all states).

Oh, and unlike NICS data, the info on those forms is not required to be destroyed.

- OS

Edited September 1, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[hipower]

I've made multiple purchases so many times I probably have a special file all to myself.  But they've all been pistol buys.

 

[quietguy]

If you purchase multiple handguns at once, from the same FFL, within a 5 day period, the FFL has to report the purchase.  A similar rule applies to certain rifle purchases (over .22 cal with detachable mags), in four states.  OhShoot detailed the TICS limitations and the 4473 requirements.  

I have made a couple of multi handgun purchases over the years, and so far there aren't black helicopters circling the house.  

[vujade]

Thank you everyone for the responses.  I have a phobia of black helicoptors so your feedback is much appreciated.  Thank you Oh Shoot for the link to the guidelines.  

From page 26, i learn that the magic number seems to be (3) max and all it requires is another call for a 'stolen gun check'.    From what I read, if they use the 'online process', this is not needed.   

Unless I'm missing something, I should be ok even I purchased say (4) lowers - these lowers would all be new from a vendor and therefore no chance of being stolen.  

 

 

[musicman]

Quietguy nailed it.  I bought five lowers at once, no prob.  Multiple handguns at once also get another form (3310 I think) filled out and sent to the FBI and your local law enforcement agency.  Still not a "problem", but just more reporting.

As per the costs for the transfer, that's up to you and the shop to work out.  Most charge per item, not per transaction.  Though I did get a crazy awesome hookup when I got my handful of lowers.  I shoulda bought a dozen. :/

[vujade]

I'm reading over your reply again Oh Shoot...

So, if I buy just (3), it just goes through NICS (National check) but if it's (4), it then goes through TICS (for that extra check on stolen firearms). 

I think that's a big difference in that our personal data can be kept indifinitely in TICS database.   (while it's destroyed at the National level).  Am I understanding that correctly?

 

[vujade]

3 minutes ago, musicman said:

Quietguy nailed it.  I bought five lowers at once, no prob.  Multiple handguns at once also get another form (3310 I think) filled out and sent to the FBI and your local law enforcement agency.  Still not a "problem", but just more reporting.

As per the costs for the transfer, that's up to you and the shop to work out.  Most charge per item, not per transaction.  Though I did get a crazy awesome hookup when I got my handful of lowers.  I shoulda bought a dozen. :/

Got it.  Handguns are where that extra layer of reporting occurs; for lowers - buying (4) is just like buying (2) or (1)... 

Trying to understand laws my head hurt.  

[musicman]

Precisely

[Oh Shoot]

1 hour ago, vujade said:

I'm reading over your reply again Oh Shoot...

So, if I buy just (3), it just goes through NICS (National check) but if it's (4), it then goes through TICS (for that extra check on stolen firearms). 

I think that's a big difference in that our personal data can be kept indifinitely in TICS database.   (while it's destroyed at the National level).  Am I understanding that correctly?

 

No.

All purchases in TN go through same NICS databases as any other state,  but handled via the intermediary of TICS, which adds its own to the mix. And TICS has some different procedures (such as requiring the serial numbers to check, which NICS doesn't) and even some additional requirements. (alcohol related offense less than a year old will deny you for example, based on wording in a TN firearms statute). TICS checks all serial numbers, whether one gun or 20. Just the limitation per 4473 by phone I mentioned. I reread the doc I posted a little closer, and nothing else required for online submission of any number of firearms.

And TICS is required by Tennessee law to dump data in same timespan as NICS. And just like the Feds, we believe them, right?

- OS

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[Oh Shoot]

1 hour ago, musicman said:

... Multiple handguns at once also get another form (3310 I think) filled out and sent to the FBI and your local law enforcement agency. ..

3310.4 to be precise.

The multiple rifle thang in the border states requires 3310.12.

Off they are numbered that way, since the multiple handgun thing has been around since at least 1968, while the border rifle edict is only a few years old.

- OS

Edited September 1, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[Jct1911]

I believe 7 is max per 4473. I've done multiples numerous times.

[Oh Shoot]

13 minutes ago, Jct1911 said:

I believe 7 is max per 4473. I've done multiples numerous times.

Just pulling a figure out of thin air, even after umm, reading the thread, huh?

- OS

Edited September 1, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[DaveTN]

The Feds...

Fact Sheet - Multiple Firearms Sales or Other Disposition Reporting.....

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/fact-sheet/fact-sheet-multiple-firearms-sales-or-other-disposition-reporting

 

[Patton]

11 hours ago, vujade said:

Got it.  Handguns are where that extra layer of reporting occurs; for lowers - buying (4) is just like buying (2) or (1)... 

Trying to understand laws my head hurt.  

That may depend on the lower. Most lowers are transferred as a receiver which means it could also be a handgun.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Patton

[Oh Shoot]

3 hours ago, Patton said:

That may depend on the lower. Most lowers are transferred as a receiver which means it could also be a handgun.

Since 8/2008, all receivers are to be transferred as "other firearm", new, used, even if they can only be made into a rifle, whatever.

It is not a handgun when transferred on the 4473, and that's what counts.

You do have to be 21 to receive one though, and can only be transferred in the state of your residence. Not because it "could become a handgun", but simply because it is not a "rifle" or "shotgun", specifically the only firearms that USC allows 18 years olds to buy, and the only firearms that can be transferred in a different state from your residence.

- OS

Edited September 1, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[Jct1911]

19 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

Just pulling a figure out of thin air, even after umm, reading the thread, huh?

- OS

Thin, no, previous experience from the guy I use, yes. Possibility of him being wrong, 100%. We don't do "thin air" in west TN.