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Colin Kaepernick

Omega

By Omega
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MacGyver
MacGyver

We only sing the first verse of Key's anthem, but the third is pretty offensive.  It  celebrates the death of slaves and free blacks.   There's some specific history from the War of 1812 that had

Smith
Smith

This whole thing is upside down.  Free speech isn't free of consequences, EXCEPT by the government. In real life, what you say has consequence. Kaepernick is free to say whatever he wants and eve

MacGyver
MacGyver

It's interesting how society changes over time - and how some things really stay the same.  Kaepernick's actions weren't without legal precedent. In 1943 (a time when you'd think "patriotism" wou

Pete123 Prolific Contributor

Pete123

Posted
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

 

 

Thats like a battered woman staying with her man because Becky down the street has it much worse than she does.  Still doesn't make it right.  

No one is making you stay in the US.  If you think there is somewhere better then head out and don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

That is really you only option unless you are doing more to make change than comment on an online forum.

Edited by Pete123
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Chucktshoes Postus Maximus

Chucktshoes

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23 minutes ago, Pete123 said:

No one is making you stay in the US.  If you think there is somewhere better then head out and don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

That is really you only option unless you are doing more to make change than comment on an online forum.

IeQC1ha.jpg

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Chucktshoes Postus Maximus

Chucktshoes

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1 minute ago, Omega said:

Yea, how is that going for you guys?  Seems the leftists have taken a page right out of that book, or is it one in the same? 

The leftists think I'm some sort of crazy right winger because I simply suggest that people should be free. The right wingers think I'm some sort of crazy leftist for the very same reason. Neither one realizes that they are the same as the other. 

 

As for hopping on a plane, I think I'll just stay put because the government is the one that sucks. I'm just gonna keep asking "why not try freedom instead?"

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Chucktshoes Postus Maximus

Chucktshoes

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Just now, Scorpion Equalizer said:

Karl Marx would've loved that ad.

Marxists despise self thinking individuals. That's why they have taken over the schools. Sheep are much easier to control. Though I am surprised the right gave up control of the schools so easily. They have the same interests in an unthinking, easily manipulated population. I mean that's why they designed the public school system the way they did after all. 

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Capbyrd Prolific Contributor

Capbyrd

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Pete123 said:

No one is making you stay in the US.  If you think there is somewhere better then head out and don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

That is really you only option unless you are doing more to make change than comment on an online forum.

So is that what we are supposed to do, just run?   What about trying to educate others and help them to see all the freedoms that they don't enjoy?   I realize that Chuck has already said everything I feel and mostly in a better way than I could every convey, but I'll still throw this in.  

 

 

I feel quite privileged because of the life I was born into.   I was born in a decent country at a pretty decent time.  I've never truly been want of any necessity.  I'm a lucky individual.  However, that doesn't mean that I can't be critical of my country and systems in place meant to stifle true freedom.   I'll do what I feel is necessary to make my neighborhood, community, city, state, country and even world a better place for the next generation.  And if that is as simple as trying to educate people on a forum, or refusing to stand for a racist anthem, or whatever, then I will take pride in those actions.   Even if I can't change a single mind, as long I get people talking and thinking, I'm doing what I believe is right.   

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mikegideon Postus Maximus

mikegideon

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

The leftists think I'm some sort of crazy right winger because I simply suggest that people should be free. The right wingers think I'm some sort of crazy leftist for the very same reason. Neither one realizes that they are the same as the other. 

 

As for hopping on a plane, I think I'll just stay put because the government is the one that sucks. I'm just gonna keep asking "why not try freedom instead?"

I know you better than that. You're a crazy anarchist :)

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MacGyver Postus Maximus

MacGyver

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It's interesting how society changes over time - and how some things really stay the same.  Kaepernick's actions weren't without legal precedent.

In 1943 (a time when you'd think "patriotism" would be on high display), the Supreme Court ruled on West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette regarding this issue.  Specifically, this case involved some Jehovah's Witnesses who didn't want to salute or pledge to symbols. One might think, what's the big deal? But, as it turns out, in addition to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, the Red Cross and others also protested.  That's because this was the salute in use in West Virginia in 1942:

Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_Amer

The court ruled in a 6-3 decision, and Justice Robert Jackson deliver the following in the majority opinion - and it's really worth reading in full:

Quote

The case is made difficult not because the principles of its decision are obscure but because the flag involved is our own. Nevertheless, we apply the limitations of the Constitution with no fear that freedom to be intellectually and spiritually diverse or even contrary will disintegrate the social organization. To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds. We can have intellectual individualism and the rich cultural diversities that we owe to exceptional minds only at the price of occasional eccentricity and abnormal attitudes. When they are so harmless to others or to the State as those we deal with here, the price is not too great. But freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order.

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.

Turns out those words are still pretty relevant - maybe more so than ever - in 2016.

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MacGyver Postus Maximus

MacGyver

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If the NFL really wants to be "patriotic", they could always salute our veterans on their own instead of requiring the military pay them $5.4M to salute Hometown Heroes between 2011 and 2014:

Team Contract # Amount Date Department Division
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC W912JM11C0001 $70,000 2/2/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC W912JM11C0021 $250,000 7/29/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC W912JM13C0013 $315,000 7/12/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC W912JM14P0131 $114,500 8/5/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC W912JM12P0091 $300,000 7/20/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP W912K611P0170 $85,000 1/4/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP W912K613P0114 $195,000 7/30/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP W912K613P0114 $89,500 9/18/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP W912K612P0123 $250,000 8/3/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP W912K611P0170 $265,000 9/9/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC. W912PQ13M0113 $250,000 5/15/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC. W912PQ14M0233 $150,000 9/5/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC. W912PQ12M0147 $250,000 6/7/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC. FA448411P0134 $29,000 9/21/2011 Department of Defense Air Force
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC. W9136412P0277 $67,000 8/16/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC. FA448413P0049 $4,960 9/24/2013 Department of Defense Air Force
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC. W9136411P0386 $67,000 8/25/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL COMPANY, LLC FA448412P0135 $10,000 9/12/2012 Department of Defense Air Force
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL COMPANY, LLC FA448411P0136 $12,500 9/27/2011 Department of Defense Air Force
DALLAS COWBOYS FOOTBALL CLUB LTD W912L113P0015 $62,500 11/9/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
FORTY NINERS FOOTBALL COMPANY LLC W912LA14P0055 $125,000 8/22/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC. W912J211P0058 $400,000 8/5/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC. W912J212P0097 $150,000 8/29/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC. W912J214P0091 $50,000 8/15/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC. W912L914P0144 $200,000 8/14/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC. W912L912P0122 $200,000 6/19/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC. FA448412P0145 $20,000 9/19/2012 Department of Defense Air Force
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC. W912L911P0070 $200,000 3/9/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS FOOTBALL CLUB, INC. W912NS11P0157 $125,000 9/1/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS FOOTBALL CLUB, INC. W912NS11P0157 $125,000 9/1/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
MIAMI DOLPHINS, LTD. FA304712P0139 $20,000 3/23/2012 Department of Defense Air Force
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC W912LM11P0155 $230,000 9/15/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC W912LM12P0092 $225,000 9/24/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC W912LM12P0092 $150,000 9/17/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C. W912NR13C0001 $165,375 3/20/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C. W912NR13C0001 $157,500 7/2/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C. W912NR13C0001 $150,000 12/6/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C. W912NR11P0220 $100,000 9/15/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC W912KN11P0105 $50,000 9/20/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC W912KN13P0070 $115,000 7/23/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC W912KN12P0129 $97,500 9/12/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC W912KN14P0123 $115,000 9/22/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
PITTSBURGH STEELERS SPORTS INC W9124D13P0338 $9,000 6/25/2013 Department of Defense Army/Ft. Knox
PITTSBURGH STEELERS SPORTS INC FA448414P0037 $27,000 7/23/2014 Department of Defense Air Force
ST. LOUIS RAMS, LLC THE W912NS14P0142 $60,000 9/17/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
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Omega Postus Maximus

Omega

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8 minutes ago, bud said:

Want to see a picture of a true patriot, look no further than our own Edward Snowden

I still find it very difficult to classify him as such.  Though some of the information he leaked helped bring issues to light, he also released much that was harmful to the US.  Of course all he did was confirm the information, many already knew what was going on.

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KahrMan Postus Maximus

KahrMan

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, MacGyver said:

If the NFL really wants to be "patriotic", they could always salute our veterans on their own instead of requiring the military pay them $5.4M to salute Hometown Heroes between 2011 and 2014:

Team Contract # Amount Date Department Division
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC W912JM11C0001 $70,000 2/2/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC W912JM11C0021 $250,000 7/29/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC W912JM13C0013 $315,000 7/12/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC W912JM14P0131 $114,500 8/5/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC W912JM12P0091 $300,000 7/20/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP W912K611P0170 $85,000 1/4/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP W912K613P0114 $195,000 7/30/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP W912K613P0114 $89,500 9/18/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP W912K612P0123 $250,000 8/3/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP W912K611P0170 $265,000 9/9/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC. W912PQ13M0113 $250,000 5/15/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC. W912PQ14M0233 $150,000 9/5/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC. W912PQ12M0147 $250,000 6/7/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC. FA448411P0134 $29,000 9/21/2011 Department of Defense Air Force
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC. W9136412P0277 $67,000 8/16/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC. FA448413P0049 $4,960 9/24/2013 Department of Defense Air Force
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC. W9136411P0386 $67,000 8/25/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL COMPANY, LLC FA448412P0135 $10,000 9/12/2012 Department of Defense Air Force
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL COMPANY, LLC FA448411P0136 $12,500 9/27/2011 Department of Defense Air Force
DALLAS COWBOYS FOOTBALL CLUB LTD W912L113P0015 $62,500 11/9/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
FORTY NINERS FOOTBALL COMPANY LLC W912LA14P0055 $125,000 8/22/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC. W912J211P0058 $400,000 8/5/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC. W912J212P0097 $150,000 8/29/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC. W912J214P0091 $50,000 8/15/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC. W912L914P0144 $200,000 8/14/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC. W912L912P0122 $200,000 6/19/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC. FA448412P0145 $20,000 9/19/2012 Department of Defense Air Force
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC. W912L911P0070 $200,000 3/9/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS FOOTBALL CLUB, INC. W912NS11P0157 $125,000 9/1/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS FOOTBALL CLUB, INC. W912NS11P0157 $125,000 9/1/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
MIAMI DOLPHINS, LTD. FA304712P0139 $20,000 3/23/2012 Department of Defense Air Force
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC W912LM11P0155 $230,000 9/15/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC W912LM12P0092 $225,000 9/24/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC W912LM12P0092 $150,000 9/17/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C. W912NR13C0001 $165,375 3/20/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C. W912NR13C0001 $157,500 7/2/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C. W912NR13C0001 $150,000 12/6/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C. W912NR11P0220 $100,000 9/15/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC W912KN11P0105 $50,000 9/20/2011 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC W912KN13P0070 $115,000 7/23/2013 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC W912KN12P0129 $97,500 9/12/2012 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC W912KN14P0123 $115,000 9/22/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG
PITTSBURGH STEELERS SPORTS INC W9124D13P0338 $9,000 6/25/2013 Department of Defense Army/Ft. Knox
PITTSBURGH STEELERS SPORTS INC FA448414P0037 $27,000 7/23/2014 Department of Defense Air Force
ST. LOUIS RAMS, LLC THE W912NS14P0142 $60,000 9/17/2014 Department of Defense Army/ARNG

The NFL is not requiring payment for these tributes.  The military is paying the NFL for advertising.  They have chosen that these tributes as the type of advertising campaign they want to run.  Make no mistake, this is just the military advertising itself in the most effective way it sees possible.

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MacGyver Postus Maximus

MacGyver

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Just now, KahrMan said:

The NFL is not requiring payment for these tributes.  The military is paying the NFL for advertising.  They have chosen that these tributes as the type of advertising campaign they want to run.  Make no mistake, this is just the military advertising itself in the most effective way it sees possible.

Would the NFL do the tributes without them?  I have no idea, but it just seems a bit disingenuous when you find out that they're being paid for by the military.

Agreed that it's likely super effective advertising from an advertising perspective.  And, it's maybe a tenth of the DoD's total advertising budget.

When Flake and McCain originally brought it into question last year, it just seemed to cheapen the whole affair.

 

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btq96r Postus Maximus

btq96r

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Would the NFL do the tributes without them?  I have no idea, but it just seems a bit disingenuous when you find out that they're being paid for by the military.

Agreed that it's likely super effective advertising from an advertising perspective.  And, it's maybe a tenth of the DoD's total advertising budget.

When Flake and McCain originally brought it into question last year, it just seemed to cheapen the whole affair.

 

I'd question it's effectiveness as a recruiting tactic.  I think it's true purpose is public relations/PSYOPS/IO...whatever you want to call it.  The public will care about inflated DoD budgets or contracting programs run amuck if they're conditioned to "support the troops" via attending/watching football games and NASCAR events.

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