Colin Kaepernick

[Fourtyfive]

He needs to find a country he's happy in and leave me his money. 

[Pete123]

12 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

 

 

Thats like a battered woman staying with her man because Becky down the street has it much worse than she does.  Still doesn't make it right.  

No one is making you stay in the US.  If you think there is somewhere better then head out and don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

That is really you only option unless you are doing more to make change than comment on an online forum.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Pete123

[Scorpion Equalizer]

He might want to move to Cuba since he was seen wearing a Fidel Castro t-shirt. Looks like he might be an Marxist and possibly brainwashed by his liberal/commie professors in college. He's a fly in the ointment for the NFL.

[Chucktshoes]

23 minutes ago, Pete123 said:

No one is making you stay in the US.  If you think there is somewhere better then head out and don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

That is really you only option unless you are doing more to make change than comment on an online forum.

[Omega]

1 minute ago, Chucktshoes said:

Yea, how is that going for you guys?  Seems the leftists have taken a page right out of that book, or is it one in the same? 

[Chucktshoes]

1 minute ago, Omega said:

Yea, how is that going for you guys?  Seems the leftists have taken a page right out of that book, or is it one in the same? 

The leftists think I'm some sort of crazy right winger because I simply suggest that people should be free. The right wingers think I'm some sort of crazy leftist for the very same reason. Neither one realizes that they are the same as the other. 

 

As for hopping on a plane, I think I'll just stay put because the government is the one that sucks. I'm just gonna keep asking "why not try freedom instead?"

[Scorpion Equalizer]

8 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Karl Marx would've loved that ad.

[Chucktshoes]

Just now, Scorpion Equalizer said:

Karl Marx would've loved that ad.

Marxists despise self thinking individuals. That's why they have taken over the schools. Sheep are much easier to control. Though I am surprised the right gave up control of the schools so easily. They have the same interests in an unthinking, easily manipulated population. I mean that's why they designed the public school system the way they did after all. 

[Scorpion Equalizer]

A Commie is still a Commie no matter the degree of Communism.

[Capbyrd]

1 hour ago, Pete123 said:

No one is making you stay in the US.  If you think there is somewhere better then head out and don't let the door hit you on the way out. 

That is really you only option unless you are doing more to make change than comment on an online forum.

So is that what we are supposed to do, just run?   What about trying to educate others and help them to see all the freedoms that they don't enjoy?   I realize that Chuck has already said everything I feel and mostly in a better way than I could every convey, but I'll still throw this in.  

 

 

I feel quite privileged because of the life I was born into.   I was born in a decent country at a pretty decent time.  I've never truly been want of any necessity.  I'm a lucky individual.  However, that doesn't mean that I can't be critical of my country and systems in place meant to stifle true freedom.   I'll do what I feel is necessary to make my neighborhood, community, city, state, country and even world a better place for the next generation.  And if that is as simple as trying to educate people on a forum, or refusing to stand for a racist anthem, or whatever, then I will take pride in those actions.   Even if I can't change a single mind, as long I get people talking and thinking, I'm doing what I believe is right.   

[mikegideon]

3 hours ago, Chucktshoes said:

The leftists think I'm some sort of crazy right winger because I simply suggest that people should be free. The right wingers think I'm some sort of crazy leftist for the very same reason. Neither one realizes that they are the same as the other. 

 

As for hopping on a plane, I think I'll just stay put because the government is the one that sucks. I'm just gonna keep asking "why not try freedom instead?"

I know you better than that. You're a crazy anarchist

[MacGyver]

8 hours ago, Scorpion Equalizer said:

A Commie is still a Commie no matter the degree of Communism.

If you're going to participate in the discussion, you're going to have to bring more to the table than this.  

 

[MacGyver]

It's interesting how society changes over time - and how some things really stay the same.  Kaepernick's actions weren't without legal precedent.

In 1943 (a time when you'd think "patriotism" would be on high display), the Supreme Court ruled on West Virginia Board of Education v. Barnette regarding this issue.  Specifically, this case involved some Jehovah's Witnesses who didn't want to salute or pledge to symbols. One might think, what's the big deal? But, as it turns out, in addition to the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, the Red Cross and others also protested.  That's because this was the salute in use in West Virginia in 1942:

The court ruled in a 6-3 decision, and Justice Robert Jackson deliver the following in the majority opinion - and it's really worth reading in full:

Quote

The case is made difficult not because the principles of its decision are obscure but because the flag involved is our own. Nevertheless, we apply the limitations of the Constitution with no fear that freedom to be intellectually and spiritually diverse or even contrary will disintegrate the social organization. To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous instead of a compulsory routine is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds. We can have intellectual individualism and the rich cultural diversities that we owe to exceptional minds only at the price of occasional eccentricity and abnormal attitudes. When they are so harmless to others or to the State as those we deal with here, the price is not too great. But freedom to differ is not limited to things that do not matter much. That would be a mere shadow of freedom. The test of its substance is the right to differ as to things that touch the heart of the existing order.

If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us.

Turns out those words are still pretty relevant - maybe more so than ever - in 2016.

[bud]

..

Edited December 1, 2016 by bud

[Chucktshoes]

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/veteransforkaepernick-49ers-quarterback-finds-support-online-n640481

[MacGyver]

If the NFL really wants to be "patriotic", they could always salute our veterans on their own instead of requiring the military pay them $5.4M to salute Hometown Heroes between 2011 and 2014:

Team	Contract #	Amount	Date	Department	Division
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC	W912JM11C0001	$70,000	2/2/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC	W912JM11C0021	$250,000	7/29/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC	W912JM13C0013	$315,000	7/12/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC	W912JM14P0131	$114,500	8/5/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC	W912JM12P0091	$300,000	7/20/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP	W912K611P0170	$85,000	1/4/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP	W912K613P0114	$195,000	7/30/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP	W912K613P0114	$89,500	9/18/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP	W912K612P0123	$250,000	8/3/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP	W912K611P0170	$265,000	9/9/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC.	W912PQ13M0113	$250,000	5/15/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC.	W912PQ14M0233	$150,000	9/5/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC.	W912PQ12M0147	$250,000	6/7/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC.	FA448411P0134	$29,000	9/21/2011	Department of Defense	Air Force
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC.	W9136412P0277	$67,000	8/16/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC.	FA448413P0049	$4,960	9/24/2013	Department of Defense	Air Force
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC.	W9136411P0386	$67,000	8/25/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL COMPANY, LLC	FA448412P0135	$10,000	9/12/2012	Department of Defense	Air Force
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL COMPANY, LLC	FA448411P0136	$12,500	9/27/2011	Department of Defense	Air Force
DALLAS COWBOYS FOOTBALL CLUB LTD	W912L113P0015	$62,500	11/9/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
FORTY NINERS FOOTBALL COMPANY LLC	W912LA14P0055	$125,000	8/22/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC.	W912J211P0058	$400,000	8/5/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC.	W912J212P0097	$150,000	8/29/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC.	W912J214P0091	$50,000	8/15/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC.	W912L914P0144	$200,000	8/14/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC.	W912L912P0122	$200,000	6/19/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC.	FA448412P0145	$20,000	9/19/2012	Department of Defense	Air Force
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC.	W912L911P0070	$200,000	3/9/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS FOOTBALL CLUB, INC.	W912NS11P0157	$125,000	9/1/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS FOOTBALL CLUB, INC.	W912NS11P0157	$125,000	9/1/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
MIAMI DOLPHINS, LTD.	FA304712P0139	$20,000	3/23/2012	Department of Defense	Air Force
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC	W912LM11P0155	$230,000	9/15/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC	W912LM12P0092	$225,000	9/24/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC	W912LM12P0092	$150,000	9/17/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C.	W912NR13C0001	$165,375	3/20/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C.	W912NR13C0001	$157,500	7/2/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C.	W912NR13C0001	$150,000	12/6/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C.	W912NR11P0220	$100,000	9/15/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC	W912KN11P0105	$50,000	9/20/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC	W912KN13P0070	$115,000	7/23/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC	W912KN12P0129	$97,500	9/12/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC	W912KN14P0123	$115,000	9/22/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
PITTSBURGH STEELERS SPORTS INC	W9124D13P0338	$9,000	6/25/2013	Department of Defense	Army/Ft. Knox
PITTSBURGH STEELERS SPORTS INC	FA448414P0037	$27,000	7/23/2014	Department of Defense	Air Force
ST. LOUIS RAMS, LLC THE	W912NS14P0142	$60,000	9/17/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG

[Omega]

8 minutes ago, bud said:

Want to see a picture of a true patriot, look no further than our own Edward Snowden

I still find it very difficult to classify him as such.  Though some of the information he leaked helped bring issues to light, he also released much that was harmful to the US.  Of course all he did was confirm the information, many already knew what was going on.

[KahrMan]

3 hours ago, MacGyver said:

If the NFL really wants to be "patriotic", they could always salute our veterans on their own instead of requiring the military pay them $5.4M to salute Hometown Heroes between 2011 and 2014:

Team	Contract #	Amount	Date	Department	Division
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC	W912JM11C0001	$70,000	2/2/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC	W912JM11C0021	$250,000	7/29/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC	W912JM13C0013	$315,000	7/12/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC	W912JM14P0131	$114,500	8/5/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
ATLANTA FALCONS FOOTBALL CLUB, LLC	W912JM12P0091	$300,000	7/20/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP	W912K611P0170	$85,000	1/4/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP	W912K613P0114	$195,000	7/30/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP	W912K613P0114	$89,500	9/18/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP	W912K612P0123	$250,000	8/3/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BALTIMORE RAVENS LP	W912K611P0170	$265,000	9/9/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC.	W912PQ13M0113	$250,000	5/15/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC.	W912PQ14M0233	$150,000	9/5/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC.	W912PQ12M0147	$250,000	6/7/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
BUFFALO BILLS, INC.	FA448411P0134	$29,000	9/21/2011	Department of Defense	Air Force
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC.	W9136412P0277	$67,000	8/16/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC.	FA448413P0049	$4,960	9/24/2013	Department of Defense	Air Force
CINCINNATI BENGALS, INC.	W9136411P0386	$67,000	8/25/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL COMPANY, LLC	FA448412P0135	$10,000	9/12/2012	Department of Defense	Air Force
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL COMPANY, LLC	FA448411P0136	$12,500	9/27/2011	Department of Defense	Air Force
DALLAS COWBOYS FOOTBALL CLUB LTD	W912L113P0015	$62,500	11/9/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
FORTY NINERS FOOTBALL COMPANY LLC	W912LA14P0055	$125,000	8/22/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC.	W912J211P0058	$400,000	8/5/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC.	W912J212P0097	$150,000	8/29/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
GREEN BAY PACKERS, INC.	W912J214P0091	$50,000	8/15/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC.	W912L914P0144	$200,000	8/14/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC.	W912L912P0122	$200,000	6/19/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC.	FA448412P0145	$20,000	9/19/2012	Department of Defense	Air Force
INDIANAPOLIS COLTS, INC.	W912L911P0070	$200,000	3/9/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS FOOTBALL CLUB, INC.	W912NS11P0157	$125,000	9/1/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
KANSAS CITY CHIEFS FOOTBALL CLUB, INC.	W912NS11P0157	$125,000	9/1/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
MIAMI DOLPHINS, LTD.	FA304712P0139	$20,000	3/23/2012	Department of Defense	Air Force
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC	W912LM11P0155	$230,000	9/15/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC	W912LM12P0092	$225,000	9/24/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL, LLC	W912LM12P0092	$150,000	9/17/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C.	W912NR13C0001	$165,375	3/20/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C.	W912NR13C0001	$157,500	7/2/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C.	W912NR13C0001	$150,000	12/6/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW ORLEANS LOUISIANA SAINTS, L.L.C.	W912NR11P0220	$100,000	9/15/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC	W912KN11P0105	$50,000	9/20/2011	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC	W912KN13P0070	$115,000	7/23/2013	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC	W912KN12P0129	$97,500	9/12/2012	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
NEW YORK JETS LLC	W912KN14P0123	$115,000	9/22/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG
PITTSBURGH STEELERS SPORTS INC	W9124D13P0338	$9,000	6/25/2013	Department of Defense	Army/Ft. Knox
PITTSBURGH STEELERS SPORTS INC	FA448414P0037	$27,000	7/23/2014	Department of Defense	Air Force
ST. LOUIS RAMS, LLC THE	W912NS14P0142	$60,000	9/17/2014	Department of Defense	Army/ARNG

The NFL is not requiring payment for these tributes.  The military is paying the NFL for advertising.  They have chosen that these tributes as the type of advertising campaign they want to run.  Make no mistake, this is just the military advertising itself in the most effective way it sees possible.

[MacGyver]

Just now, KahrMan said:

The NFL is not requiring payment for these tributes.  The military is paying the NFL for advertising.  They have chosen that these tributes as the type of advertising campaign they want to run.  Make no mistake, this is just the military advertising itself in the most effective way it sees possible.

Would the NFL do the tributes without them?  I have no idea, but it just seems a bit disingenuous when you find out that they're being paid for by the military.

Agreed that it's likely super effective advertising from an advertising perspective.  And, it's maybe a tenth of the DoD's total advertising budget.

When Flake and McCain originally brought it into question last year, it just seemed to cheapen the whole affair.

 

[btq96r]

3 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Would the NFL do the tributes without them?  I have no idea, but it just seems a bit disingenuous when you find out that they're being paid for by the military.

Agreed that it's likely super effective advertising from an advertising perspective.  And, it's maybe a tenth of the DoD's total advertising budget.

When Flake and McCain originally brought it into question last year, it just seemed to cheapen the whole affair.

 

I'd question it's effectiveness as a recruiting tactic.  I think it's true purpose is public relations/PSYOPS/IO...whatever you want to call it.  The public will care about inflated DoD budgets or contracting programs run amuck if they're conditioned to "support the troops" via attending/watching football games and NASCAR events.

[Scorpion Equalizer]

13 hours ago, MacGyver said:

If you're going to participate in the discussion, you're going to have to bring more to the table than this.  

 

If you had Googled "Lucy Parsons" , you would have known she was an Anarchist Communist instead of a Marxist Communist. However you want to describe Lucy or Karl, they're both commies.

[Chucktshoes]

[Scorpion Equalizer]

I respect the flag of the government we had before it was fundamentally transformed into the liberal/socialist/communist government of BHO and Billary. I arm myself b/c the Constitution gives me that right to be prepared against government tyrants.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Scorpion Equalizer

[Omega]

The flag belongs to its people, not the government.  

[Garufa]

49 minutes ago, Omega said:

The flag belongs to its people, not the government.  

This.