Colin Kaepernick

[56FordGuy]

How is this guy refusing to stand up and more disrespectful than people walking to their seats, talking to one another, vendors in the stands selling things, etc? While those people are all standing up, they're certainly not paying any attention to the anthem.

Personally, I feel the anthem is overplayed. People hear it before every sporting event and eventually it loses it's significance. If you want people to treat it in a reverent manner, reserve it's use for special occasions.

[Omega]

I see showing respect for the Anthem and the raising of the flag as honoring those that have given their all for our way of life.  I see the politicizing of these events as disrespectful to their memory.  Those that are not paying attention while it is being played I see as being unintentionally disrespectful and would probably feel shame if it was brought to their attention, but those who willfully disrespect it are just spitting on their graves and have no shame.  While I support their right to their opinion, I will also support the opinion of all of us that think he is just a sorry excuse for an American.

[56FordGuy]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/colin-kaepernick-national-anthem-black-lives-matter_us_57c1a1bde4b085c1ff299efd

“I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. … There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”

~Colin Kaepernick~

Apparently this overpaid has-been (my Broncos made a good choice)has decided to insult what the flag stands for.  And I guess there are a few who would agree.  As for me, I'll pay for a few one-way tickets out of the US for these people.

http://www.zengardner.com/states-stockholm-syndrome-and-pseudo-patriotism/?print=print


Just something to think about.

[Omega]

4 minutes ago, 56FordGuy said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.zengardner.com/states-stockholm-syndrome-and-pseudo-patriotism/?print=print


Just something to think about.

 

 

 

I think you have me confused with some weak minded individuals who are prone to Stockholm syndrome.  I don't care how long I am held or by whom, the first chance I get I will escape and rain hell on them for doing so as soon as I am able.  But that is a moot point, as I said the flag to me does not represent the government but those who fought for our way of life.  Since I was young I decided that as soon as I could I would join the military and give back to this country, and did so for 21 years.  If asked to I again would take up arms to defend it, and if people like Colin didn't like it then they could just kiss my 4th point of contact. 

I may not support a particular military or police action, but will stand with all the men and women who take part in it.  There are good and bad people on both sides, and I support bringing them all to justice.  But these incidents are far and few between and looting and burning your own community and calling for the killing of law enforcement officers because of it is downright un-American.  I support the right of anyone to have and voice their opinion but I do not have to support that opinion.  And BTW, I support stopping that kind of protest by any non-lethal means instead of standing by and letting it happen. 

[Capbyrd]

1 hour ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

And I do have one good piece of advice to those who don't want to die at the hands of police. Don't engage in criminal activity and you won't come into contact with LE but if you do come into contact with LE while committing those crimes COMPLY. The life you save could be your own but if you don't want to then you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

Its not that easy for some people.  I've seen plenty enough videos to see cops SHOOT people for complying.  And they weren't engaged in criminal activity.  They were driving in the wrong place and "matched a description (I've done that a LOT)" or they had a broken lens or light out.  



And how much money or what kind of life Kap has or has had, does not matter one bit in this.  If you bring that up in this crap, then I guess you don't contribute to charities unless they are something that effected you personally huh?  So only homeless people can donate to soup kitchens and shelters?  Only flood victims can donate to Louisiana right now?  ANYONE can believe in a cause and use whatever position they might have to try and bring awareness and change to that cause.  And so long as they do it in an intelligent manner, as Kap has done, I don't see the problem.  He didn't block freeways, or start a riot, he simply didn't stand and that gave him the ability speak about the issue in the national media. And when he did speak, he was intelligent and not at all hateful.  He is actually setting a good example.  

[Chucktshoes]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/murder-4-words-kaeper-critics-won-tackle-article-1.2769870

 

"So instead, they change the subject once more to imaginary military slights he never stated.

Last night, Kaepernick clarified that too: “I have great respect for the men and women that have fought for this country. I have family, I have friends that have gone and fought for this country."

And then, Kaepernick explained the tragic hypocrisy:

“This country isn’t holding up their end of the bargain… men and women that have been in the military have come back and been treated unjustly, and have been murdered by the country they fought for, on our land. That’s not right.”

No. That’s not right. It’s criminal.

Walter Scott, killed by officer Matthew Slager on video, was a US Veteran. So was India Kager, Kenneth Chamberlain and others. Scott was not only shot while running away, but the original police report was falsified so Slager could “get away with murder."

Slager, who is still awaiting trial, wasn’t just a “bad apple,” he was part of a police cover-up. Slager never honored Scott’s past military service. He murdered him.

A flag does not inherently represent soldiers. That is a lifetime of political brainwashing talking.

Claiming Kaepernick’s act as an insult to soldiers is as logically twisted as claiming standing up for the flag honors Micah Johnson and Gavin Long — the two military veterans who killed police in Dallas and Baton Rouge.

Neither statement makes any damn sense."

[Smith]

This whole thing is upside down. 

Free speech isn't free of consequences, EXCEPT by the government. In real life, what you say has consequence. Kaepernick is free to say whatever he wants and everyone else is free to say whatever they want in response. There is no defense for Kaepernick necessary nor should there be condemnation for those who speak against him.  

Lecturing those who disagree with Kaepernick about free speech etc. is the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black while the pot is filled with arrogant hypocrisy.

[Chucktshoes]

12 minutes ago, Smith said:

This whole thing is upside down. 

Free speech isn't free of consequences, EXCEPT by the government. In real life, what you say has consequence. Kaepernick is free to say whatever he wants and everyone else is free to say whatever they want in response. There is no defense for Kaepernick necessary nor should there be condemnation for those who speak against him.  

Lecturing those who disagree with Kaepernick about free speech etc. is the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black while the pot is filled with arrogant hypocrisy.

Why should those who condemn Kaepernick be free of condemnation themselves? Aren't their words just as open to dissection and analysis and his? 

[Smith]

Why should those who condemn Kaepernick be free of condemnation themselves? Aren't their words just as open to dissection and analysis and his? 

Yep, and it's circular. However, disagreeing on "principal" and then arguing in that same "principal" is what Gary Larson built The Far Side on.
Carry on repressing free speech, in defense of free speech, using free speech. [emoji6]

[Omega]

Anyone is free to condemn my views all they want, it won't change my opinion of him any.  But it may change my opinion of those who do, especially those that think it was right of him to use it as a platform.  If he would of come out with a BLM armband, T-Shirt or hat it would not of even made a blip on my radar.  That's like someone egging an MLK street sign to protest the blocking of public roads, it would get them the platform they desire but would tick a whole lot of people off.

[Chucktshoes]

5 minutes ago, Smith said:

Yep, and it's circular. However, disagreeing on "principal" and then arguing in that same "principal" is what Gary Larson built The Far Side on.
Carry on repressing free speech, in defense of free speech, using free speech.

See, I just see a whole lot of folks exercising their right to speak their conscience. Some hold one view, some another. I haven't really seen anyone attempting to use the force of the government to silence anyone on this subject. So, any claims that anyone is "repressing free speech" are just a spurious argument used to deflect against criticisms of their position, regardless of what that position is. 

[xsubsailor]

Let me see......which one do I have the most respect for.........

 

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[MacGyver]

Well, this forum is intended to generally encourage conversations like these.  So long as all of the participants bring something to the discussion, while there's no promise of free speech, I hope that we can all learn something from other peoples' experience.

[MacGyver]

18 minutes ago, xsubsailor said:

Let me see......which one do I have the most respect for.........

 

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I've got a lot of respect for Glen Coffee, too.  But, the meme doesn't tell his story as well as he does:

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/08/full_story_glen_coffee_explain.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2015/08/07/glen-coffee-was-an-nfl-running-back-now-hes-on-the-army-ranger-school-staff/

And, I expect like so many things in life, the rest of his path is far more complicated and interesting than any article or interview can do justice.

[Garufa]

If I start making $19,000,000 per year does that mean I can also say or do anything I want while on the clock?

[Capbyrd]

30 minutes ago, Omega said:

Anyone is free to condemn my views all they want, it won't change my opinion of him any.  But it may change my opinion of those who do, especially those that think it was right of him to use it as a platform.  If he would of come out with a BLM armband, T-Shirt or hat it would not of even made a blip on my radar.  

 

 

Well that's kind of the point here.  He is trying to make the blip on people's radar.  he is trying to get people discussing this. 

 

[Capbyrd]

Just now, Garufa said:

If I start making $19,000,000 per year does that mean I can also say or do anything I want while on the clock?

 

 

That's between you and your employer.  

[Garufa]

1 minute ago, Capbyrd said:

 

 

That's between you and your employer.  

Part of my point is he has the money to put where his month is if he wants to effect some change.  I'm beyond over millionaires demanding change and expecting everyone else to take care of the details.

Thr other point is he's on the job.  If the '49ers approve of their employees making political statements on the job, well that's up to them.  I never cared for pro sports and the increasing politicalization of them.

[Capbyrd]

1 minute ago, Garufa said:

Part of my point is he has the money to put where his month is if he wants to effect some change.  I'm beyond over millionaires demanding change and expecting everyone else to take care of the details.

Thr other point is he's on the job.  If the '49ers approve of their employees making political statements on the job, well that's up to them.  I never cared for pro sports and the increasing politicalization of them.

 

 

I believe that he did just put his money where his mouth is.  Now, he was already on the bubble as far as his career is concerned but this could very well cost him his job.  There are a lot of fans upset and if it hurts the owner's bottom line, you can guarantee he's gone.  In which case, Kap loses his livelihood.  

[KKing]

He got what he wanted, attention. Wether it was truly to draw that attention toward what he claimed or if he is simply a once was star on a rapid decline looking to grab some spotlight who knows.

Kinda strange how he went from a Super Bowl contender to someone who may not even make the team this year.

Best comment I've seen on the matter was "he should have taken the opportunity to stand, even if he makes the team he'll never get off the bench."


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[Garufa]

5 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

 

 

I believe that he did just put his money where his mouth is.  Now, he was already on the bubble as far as his career is concerned but this could very well cost him his job.  There are a lot of fans upset and if it hurts the owner's bottom line, you can guarantee he's gone.  In which case, Kap loses his livelihood.  

He has a contract.  He won't lose jack and is set for life.

[Capbyrd]

19 minutes ago, Garufa said:

He has a contract.  He won't lose jack and is set for life.

NFL contracts aren't guaranteed.  If he gets cut, he gets nothing.  

[Grand Torino]

1 hour ago, Garufa said:

If I start making $19,000,000 per year does that mean I can also say or do anything I want while on the clock?

Certainly....and the left leaning media will fall all over themselves reporting your stance no matter how irrelevant it may be.

[Grand Torino]

54 minutes ago, KKing said:

He got what he wanted, attention. Wether it was truly to draw that attention toward what he claimed or if he is simply a once was star on a rapid decline looking to grab some spotlight who knows.

Kinda strange how he went from a Super Bowl contender to someone who may not even make the team this year.

Best comment I've seen on the matter was "he should have taken the opportunity to stand, even if he makes the team he'll never get off the bench."


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Quote

Best comment I've seen on the matter was "he should have taken the opportunity to stand, even if he makes the team he'll never get off the bench."

Priceless....

[btq96r]

2 hours ago, Garufa said:

He has a contract.  He won't lose jack and is set for life.

 

2 hours ago, Capbyrd said:

NFL contracts aren't guaranteed.  If he gets cut, he gets nothing.  

The truth is in the middle, but closer to what Gaurfa says.  If he planned well, and has a good investor, he'll be set for life because he earned at least $3.8 million from 2011-2014, and he has $11.9 coming from this year for being on the roster in April, even if he gets cut tomorrow.  So, even with his tax hit, he still has enough to make it work at a very plush lifestyle if he's smart.  If he blows it, or didn't get ready for his tax bill (being in San Fran, Cali taxes take a healthy chunk on top of federal), he could struggle.  It's on him. 

His only guarantees come on specified dates, and if he isn't on the team next year (I doubt he is there past this year), the rest of his contract is voided he gets nothing of whats left on it, having to start from scratch on a new contract unless a team picks him up on waivers with the intent of honoring the deal he had with San Fran (none of them will).  The 49ers were kind of screwed, as he was still injured when that April deadline that guaranteed his $11.9 mil came, and if they released him before he was medically cleared, they would have been responsible for the money anyway.  So, they figured let him try to bounce back in training camp with no additional risk to the team.  That hasn't happened.  His on field play is astoundingly bad for a guy who had a massive skill set and led a team to the Super Bowl a few years ago.

That $19 million number being thrown around is the hit in salary cap calculations San Fran will have to absorb if they cut him, but I think even that's changed a bit.  There are some crazy rules involved in how they get to that number.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/colin-kaepernick-7751/