Colin Kaepernick

[Scorpion Equalizer]

11 hours ago, SWJewellTN said:

He's exercising his right to be an idiot.

Seems to be the norm these days.

[56FordGuy]

I think you have me confused with some weak minded individuals who are prone to Stockholm syndrome.  I don't care how long I am held or by whom, the first chance I get I will escape and rain hell on them for doing so as soon as I am able. 

To be clear, I didn't mean to imply that you personally were suffering from Stockholm syndrome. My intent was just to point out that it's easy to draw a comparison to people that have experienced it and unquestioning patriotism, especially for those of us who have a different view of what freedom is.

A lot of people will say they love America, are patriots, etc and when asked why they usually answer with something about freedom. There's a point of view (full disclosure, it's one that I happen to hold) that no government can grant freedom. We are all born free people, the government only serves to remove those freedoms and restrict the things we can do. They cannot create new freedoms and grant them to us.

Imagine a tornado and having literally everything you've ever owned disappear while you're away. When you return home, everything is gone except for two family pictures you found in what used to be your yard. Patriotism would then claim what a wonderful, generous tornado it was because it gave you two photos while completely ignoring everything that is has taken from you.

[Omega]

9 minutes ago, 56FordGuy said:

 

 

To be clear, I didn't mean to imply that you personally were suffering from Stockholm syndrome. My intent was just to point out that it's easy to draw a comparison to people that have experienced it and unquestioning patriotism, especially for those of us who have a different view of what freedom is.

A lot of people will say they love America, are patriots, etc and when asked why they usually answer with something about freedom. There's a point of view (full disclosure, it's one that I happen to hold) that no government can grant freedom. We are all born free people, the government only serves to remove those freedoms and restrict the things we can do. They cannot create new freedoms and grant them to us.

Imagine a tornado and having literally everything you've ever owned disappear while you're away. When you return home, everything is gone except for two family pictures you found in what used to be your yard. Patriotism would then claim what a wonderful, generous tornado it was because it gave you two photos while completely ignoring everything that is has taken from you.
 

 

I see it this way, our Government may have its flaws, but I see it as the storm shelter that prevents that tornado from taking the life of my family while I am away.  Do I think they can do no wrong, of course not, but looking across the globe there are very few places I would rather be.  Freedoms may not be granted by our Government, but so far has been the one to help maintain what we currently have.  Again, not saying everything they do I agree with, as like everything they (the people in it) can have their own agenda, but it is the form of Government that we have and at least there are a few checks and balances that try and make it so it's not a dictatorship.  I am well aware of the runaway systems that our Government has allowed to be created and I feel that one day, maybe soon, we will have a reckoning to reset it (or attempt to) back to the way it should be.  I hear all the rhetoric from those that say we are not free due to taxes, laws etc, yeah I get it, they want to be able to do as they wish without Government interference which is all well and good, until "they" decide that what they want to do interferes with my rights, then its on.  Again, the Government, Laws, hell, society in general is not perfect but its far better than it could be, and I for one am glad to be part of it.

[Capbyrd]

11 minutes ago, Omega said:

  Freedoms may not be granted by our Government, but so far has been the one to help maintain what we currently have.  

The government I live under has been in the business of restricting freedoms since 1776.  Not sure where you live though.  

[Pete123]

Omega really hit the nail on the head.  We live in a broken world.  Our government, for all its flaws, is still one of the best.

 

 

[Capbyrd]

13 minutes ago, Pete123 said:

Omega really hit the nail on the head.  We live in a broken world.  Our government, for all its flaws, is still one of the best.

 

 

Thats like a battered woman staying with her man because Becky down the street has it much worse than she does.  Still doesn't make it right.  

[E4 No More]

28 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

The government I live under has been in the business of restricting freedoms since 1776.  Not sure where you live though.  

Ya mean like freedom to drive on the wrong side of the road? Or freedom to kill someone that annoys you? Perhaps freedom to let your house burn down?

[Chucktshoes]

[KKing]

 

 

Thats like a battered woman staying with her man because Becky down the street has it much worse than she does.  Still doesn't make it right.  

Please, tell me what you suggest.

[56FordGuy]

Ya mean like freedom to drive on the wrong side of the road? Or freedom to kill someone that annoys you? Perhaps freedom to let your house burn down?

Here's an example.

It's Friday evening and I just bought a motorcycle. I stuck my 642 in a pocket*, hopped on it and rode down to the local bar* to show it off to some friends. It's a nice cool evening, so I left my helmet at home*. I had a beer*, visited for a while then went over to another friend's house. We smoked a joint*, hung out for a few hours and I went home.



1- I don't have a HCP.

2- I don't have a motorcycle license, bought it used on Craigslist.

3- TN has a helmet law.

4- I'm pocket carrying a .38 like always. TN doesn't define "under the influence" with regard to alcohol and carrying so it's likely my consumption of one beer is a violation of the law.

5- It's illegal in the state of TN go grow, posses, or use marijuana.

All of those things are violations of the law, yet there are no victims. These things are freedoms that the government has eagerly stripped away with no justification.

Some folks see the government as the storm shelter, and some of us see them as the tornado.

[KKing]

Here's an example.

It's Friday evening and I just bought a motorcycle. I stuck my 642 in a pocket*, hopped on it and rode down to the local bar* to show it off to some friends. It's a nice cool evening, so I left my helmet at home*. I had a beer*, visited for a while then went over to another friend's house. We smoked a joint*, hung out for a few hours and I went home.

1- I don't have a HCP.

2- I don't have a motorcycle license, bought it used on Craigslist.

3- TN has a helmet law.

4- I'm pocket carrying a .38 like always. TN doesn't define "under the influence" with regard to alcohol and carrying so it's likely my consumption of one beer is a violation of the law.

5- It's illegal in the state of TN go grow, posses, or use marijuana.

All of those things are violations of the law, yet there are no victims. These things are freedoms that the government has eagerly stripped away with no justification.

Some folks see the government as the storm shelter, and some of us see them as the tornado.

I agree with basically everything you just said. What I want to know is, what are you going to do about it? I mean, I see exactly where you're coming from but all this finger wagging on here will do nothing. All the voting in the world won't turn that around.

[56FordGuy]

I agree with basically everything you just said. What I want to know is, what are you going to do about it? I mean, I see exactly where you're coming from but all this finger wagging on here will do nothing. All the voting in the world won't turn that around.

On a personal level, I did what little I could to live within the law, but ultimately decided to just live my life. I moved to a state* with no helmet laws (even though I'm not a biker and have no interest in motorcycles), no carry license requirement (for residents) and where marijuana is only a couple of hours drive to Colorado, where cannabis is not only 100% legal but some of the highest grade stuff I've ever run across. [emoji23]

All of the things I mentioned could be changed if the voters in TN wanted to because there are other states that allow almost all of them. Alabama doesn't prohibit drinking and carrying, 25 states have legalized cannabis, which only leaves the M endorsement for bikers. I don't know if there are states that don't require that, but I assume it could be done much like the in state CDL that you can get at 18 instead of the interstate CDL that you must be 21 for.

My point in posting wasn't that TGO in and of itself could change anything, but that were not as free as some folks like to think we are.

*I certainly don't mean to make Wyoming sound like a libertarian paradise, we have our own silly laws as well. However, the culture can be very different when it comes to what those laws are and how they are or aren't enforced.

[E4 No More]

The Bull in this thread is astounding.

[Chucktshoes]

19 minutes ago, SWJewellTN said:

The Bull in this thread is astounding.

Right?! The amount of folks who talk about valuing freedom and then turn around and justify, excuse, and defend the legitimacy of an entity that makes them less free with every passing day is astounding isn't it? 

 

That at is what you meant,, right?

[Ted S.]

This is my anarchistic-perspective on Kaepernick's comments: he signed a contract with a team. He agreed to terms when he signed. Did the contract include expectations of personal/political conduct? I dunno. But whatever happens to him now is between the parties involved in the contract.

[E4 No More]

46 minutes ago, Chucktshoes said:

Right?! The amount of folks who talk about valuing freedom and then turn around and justify, excuse, and defend the legitimacy of an entity that makes them less free with every passing day is astounding isn't it? 

 

That at is what you meant,, right?

The term "Flights leaving daily" comes to mind for some of you.

[56FordGuy]

The term "Flights leaving daily" comes to mind for some of you.

I preferred to drive. Took five or six trips for all the house stuff, the shop, the equipment and livestock.

If you mean the US, no one chose to be born here any more than anyone else. Why should those of us who don't for the line for the masters have to leave? Are we hurting anything, other than some folks pride when we point out that they're not as freedom loving as they claim to be?

Just because we're all slaves to the system doesn't mean we have to pretend the chains aren't there.

[NotYetGecko45]

As a veteran and an American I fully back and respect his right to not stand for whatever reason. The 1A is a beautiful thing, cannot be mad at him for doing it - but you can disagree.

Now, he needs to put his money was his mouth is. $100M+, and he was adopted and raised by white parents, turned into a SJW and put through college/training...so not sure what he thinks HE is accomplishing other than galvinization.

I would respect him more if he donated or volunteered, all that money can start advocacy groups or some other holloe gesture - that would make his stunt more believable.

[Chucktshoes]

[KKing]

Sorry, but even if you served you can't this perceived "systematic oppression" into a reality.

[Capbyrd]

1 hour ago, KKing said:

Sorry, but even if you served you can't this perceived "systematic oppression" into a reality.

I personally don't believe that the oppression is limited to black people.  I think its anyone that isn't blue.  

[Ted S.]

34 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

I personally don't believe that the oppression is limited to black people.  I think its anyone that isn't blue.  

I.E. unorthodoxy/ownlife

[Chucktshoes]

35 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

I personally don't believe that the oppression is limited to black people.  I think its anyone that isn't blue.  

While on the whole I agree with this, I view the black community as the proverbial canary in the coal mine. For myriad reasons the effects of government actions are more pronounced there. What's happening there is coming to a neighborhood near you. 

[Two Dogs]

38 minutes ago, Capbyrd said:

I personally don't believe that the oppression is limited to black people.  I think its anyone that isn't blue.  

Smith lives matter!

[A.J. Holst]

4 hours ago, Ted S. said:

This is my anarchistic-perspective on Kaepernick's comments: he signed a contract with a team. He agreed to terms when he signed. Did the contract include expectations of personal/political conduct? I dunno. But whatever happens to him now is between the parties involved in the contract.

The 1A allows you to say virtually whatever you want without fear of .gov reprisal. Private citizens can express disagreement by not buying anything he is affiliated with. 

I don't agree with his views and he plays a game for a living...so who really effing cares what he says or who he is?

Ted  makes a good point; is there a code on conduct while on the clock? Does the employer allow a personal soapbox or stage in the public arena of their business? Does the employee have the right to use the employers public forum to spew forth personal agendas, motives or brain dead statements?

Wonder if he retained some earnings or is broke like a huge number of  professional atheletes.