Savage 342 .22 Hornet Trigger Disassemble/Assemble!

[Sidewinder]

Have any of you removed the trigger assembly from a Savage model 342 .22 Hornet and reinstalled it? I have ordered parts from Numrich and will be disassembling and reassembling mine in about a week. I'm actually replacing the magazine retainer spring (rear), item #24, Product # 163450B, on Numrich's online diagram. In order to get the two screws out that hold this mag retainer spring, it appears that I have to remove the trigger parts, so I can get a screwdriver down in the box. I don't think the box (that holds the trigger and it's related parts) has to be removed.

Currently, all of the through pins (4), have been replaced with what appears to be 3/32" aircraft aluminum rivets! So, I'm getting all new pins to replace these. It appears someone has been into the trigger before, but presently the trigger is operating just fine.

I'm doing this in hopes irt will fix a "jamming" problem, when I try to chamber rounds from the magazine. There is slight wear on the two ears on this spring that engage the locking notches on the magazine. I have already bought a new magazine, as the old one has wear at these notches. It is my hope that this new spring will hold the mag fully in, all of the way, and  tight. When I hold the mag in tight with my hand and cycle the bolt with the other hand, it feeds all five rounds without a hitch.

Numrich's diagram does not show how these trigger parts fit together. If anyone knows where I can find a diagram of how these trigger parts fit together, I'd appreciate any and all information. These parts are down inside a metal box and have to be removed one part at a time. If anyone has seen a video on this particular trigger mechanism, please point me in the right direction.

Finally, I'm not a gunsmith, and I'm not too proud to ask for help! Any helpful information that anyone can give me on this procedure will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Chuck (cjwaa1@msn.com) 615-895-5502

[Sunfish]

They may have used rivets because the pins kept working out. The magazine latch and the old spring is a very good starting point.   

[Sidewinder]

5 hours ago, Sunfish said:

They may have used rivets because the pins kept working out. The magazine latch and the old spring is a very good starting point.   

I suppose the sides of the stock are supposed to keep the pins in place. I'm hoping to be able to use some sturdy tape over the ends of the pins. Possibly something like the aluminum foil tape... commonly referred to as 400 MPH tape by the military. Thanks for the information, Sunfish. From what I can see on the parts diagram, there are only three parts to the trigger mechanism. Thanks again.

[xtriggerman]

As far as your feed issue. The first thing to examine is the amount of "grab" the bolt face has on the back of the cartridge to get it moving forward. If there is an adequate amount of engagement there, It would point to a wrong bend in the mag guide post #30. It would need to be bent forward slightly. This bending would bring the bullet tips higher up onto the feed ramp. With the mag guide post properly bent, the front tip of the mag should just start to touch the receiver as the latch makes the lock in "click". 

[Sidewinder]

5 hours ago, xtriggerman said:

As far as your feed issue. The first thing to examine is the amount of "grab" the bolt face has on the back of the cartridge to get it moving forward. If there is an adequate amount of engagement there, It would point to a wrong bend in the mag guide post #30. It would need to be bent forward slightly. This bending would bring the bullet tips higher up onto the feed ramp. With the mag guide post properly bent, the front tip of the mag should just start to touch the receiver as the latch makes the lock in "click". 

Thanks for the information, xtriggerman. I will give that a try. Should I try to make any adjustment in the bend of the rear mag retainer spring, item #24? A little more info... the gun is old and the mag is old. Both seem to have a little wear where the locking ears click into the side notches in the mag sides. There appears to be some wear on the bolt face, where it contacts the head of the cartridge. There's actually quite a bit of "noticeable wear" on the bolt face #58, where it engages the head of the cartridge in the magazine, to push it forward. Any thoughts? Thanks.

[xtriggerman]

As far as the spring latch, its very unlikely it has wore down at the mag lock in contact since its spring hard. If it does not have tension enough to hold the mag reliably, yes I would tweek it slightly by bending its full length forward a bit (not at a specific point so not to crack it). The bolt face may have some poor machining but the soft brass cartridge heads will have zero effect on wearing the harder steel of the face in any way other than lapping it slightly smoother. When fitting the mag guide post, do it with the bolt closed so you don't bend the guide post so far that the mag hinders the bolt's forward movement over the feed lips of the mag. The mag well opening "should" keep the mag from going too far up in front of the bolt but hey, it was a cheap gun in its time. The mag lock up nubs should still have a defined 90 degree "step" for latching. Wear may amount to the sharp 90 getting rounded off some what but wore off to the point of the mag not letting the bolt face pick up a round is not likely but that 342 is at least 61 years old so anything is possible. Iv seen critical things filed on way too many times! 

[Sidewinder]

11 hours ago, xtriggerman said:

As far as the spring latch, its very unlikely it has wore down at the mag lock in contact since its spring hard. If it does not have tension enough to hold the mag reliably, yes I would tweek it slightly by bending its full length forward a bit (not at a specific point so not to crack it). The bolt face may have some poor machining but the soft brass cartridge heads will have zero effect on wearing the harder steel of the face in any way other than lapping it slightly smoother. When fitting the mag guide post, do it with the bolt closed so you don't bend the guide post so far that the mag hinders the bolt's forward movement over the feed lips of the mag. The mag well opening "should" keep the mag from going too far up in front of the bolt but hey, it was a cheap gun in its time. The mag lock up nubs should still have a defined 90 degree "step" for latching. Wear may amount to the sharp 90 getting rounded off some what but wore off to the point of the mag not letting the bolt face pick up a round is not likely but that 342 is at least 61 years old so anything is possible. Iv seen critical things filed on way too many times! 

Upon closer examination, the wear on the face of the bolt is on the bottom and seems to go around the bolt head as it's closed. It's on the outer edge of the bolt face, outside the pocket that the head of the cartridge fits into. The greatest wear on the bolt face is exactly the edge that picks up the head of the round to push it out of the magazine. There seems to be enough wear, that at times it slides over the top of the round, as the head of the round is pushed partially back down in the mag. The bullet end has raised toward the bullet ramp, and now the bold face contacts the cartridge case about midway and jams. It's damaging the shell casings to the point that I don't think they will be safe to reload!

 

If I can find a new one, I'm considering replacing the bolt face (front) part of the bolt This must be a common problem, because Numrich is sold out of this part. This gun is turning into the money pit!

[xtriggerman]

Well, it sounds like someone polished the hell out of the bottom edge of the bolt face, beveling it to the point its no longer a 90 degree edge! Brass casing are simply too soft to do that no matter how many hundreds of thousands of tiny 22 hornets it may have digested. What you have just described in your posts is a common low hanging magazine issue, If you latch an empty magazine in under a closed bolt, the magazine should have no more than a 16th of up and down play, latched. Now that is "if" the feed lips on the mag are in proper configuration. If the mag guide post is at the proper angle and you have more than 1/16th play as described but the feed problem goes away if you hold up on the mag, there is one thing left to do to salvage the mag. As I have done on numerous guns in the past, put a dot of mig weld on the mag lock up points and then cut the weld down to match the sheet metal and then fit the weld by file until the 1/16th play is achieved. I was hoping this problem was something you could fix your self but if you cant get another mag, that's how it is salvaged. Back in the 80's I used to sell those Savage 340's in my shop and you wouldn't think a cheap gun like that would shoot. I had one bencher that had me glass bed and trigger tune one in 222 and he showed me 10 shot groups covered with a dime at 100 yards from that "cheap" gun. So if you have a good bore in that Hornet, don't let this bump in the road get to you, its well worth a fix. Aw hell, I'll by it from you if you don't want to fool with it! 

[Westwindmike]

xtriggerman,

I have shot this particular Savage. It shoots good, but has a really hard trigger. I sat there one day and cycled one mag through it as fast as I could operate the bolt without a problem. But it turns out that the mag was resting on my let and putting pressure on it, holding it in perfect position. When I held it up with nothing touching the mag, it won't feed. He bought a new mag, but it does the same thing. Thanks for your help on this! Oh, and it seems to function better with polymer tipped V-Max. The problem is mainly with Sierra RNL.

[Sidewinder]

On 8/12/2016 at 11:55 AM, xtriggerman said:

Well, it sounds like someone polished the hell out of the bottom edge of the bolt face, beveling it to the point its no longer a 90 degree edge! Brass casing are simply too soft to do that no matter how many hundreds of thousands of tiny 22 hornets it may have digested. What you have just described in your posts is a common low hanging magazine issue, If you latch an empty magazine in under a closed bolt, the magazine should have no more than a 16th of up and down play, latched. Now that is "if" the feed lips on the mag are in proper configuration. If the mag guide post is at the proper angle and you have more than 1/16th play as described but the feed problem goes away if you hold up on the mag, there is one thing left to do to salvage the mag. As I have done on numerous guns in the past, put a dot of mig weld on the mag lock up points and then cut the weld down to match the sheet metal and then fit the weld by file until the 1/16th play is achieved. I was hoping this problem was something you could fix your self but if you cant get another mag, that's how it is salvaged. Back in the 80's I used to sell those Savage 340's in my shop and you wouldn't think a cheap gun like that would shoot. I had one bencher that had me glass bed and trigger tune one in 222 and he showed me 10 shot groups covered with a dime at 100 yards from that "cheap" gun. So if you have a good bore in that Hornet, don't let this bump in the road get to you, its well worth a fix. Aw hell, I'll by it from you if you don't want to fool with it! 

Xtriggerman, I think you are on something there, with the low hanging mag theory. I bought a new mag from Numrich, I believe, new old stock and it did the same thing. If supported from the bottom, the old mag seems to feed better than the new mag! These old 342s were cheap, back in the day, like most guns were. But they're not cheap these days! I'm beginning to call mine the money pit. If I have to hire a gunsmith to tinker with it until it feeds reliably, I'll have so much money in it that the only way to get my money out of it would be to keep it and use it. I'm danged if I do... and danged if I don't! Right now, I can only keep tinkering... in small tweeks, so as to not mess things up. It'll cycle the sharper pointed bullets, like Westwind Mike said, It's the soft point that jams... and I have a lot of them. I figure if I can get them cycling reliably, the rest will cycle like clockwork.

[xtriggerman]

OK, its fun working on the old guns. If you ever get out this way (10min south of exit 322 I-40) I'd hook you up, mag & trigger while u watch. no $$. I take it you served in the Navy.

Take Care

[Westwindmike]

54 minutes ago, xtriggerman said:

OK, its fun working on the old guns. If you ever get out this way (10min south of exit 322 I-40) I'd hook you up, mag & trigger while u watch. no $$. I take it you served in the Navy.

Take Care

 

54 minutes ago, xtriggerman said:

OK, its fun working on the old guns. If you ever get out this way (10min south of exit 322 I-40) I'd hook you up, mag & trigger while u watch. no $$. I take it you served in the Navy.

Take Care

I know you were talking to Sidewinder, but you are near my family. They are at exit 311 Plateau Rd. Maybe I can get Sidewinder to come up there one day.

[Sidewinder]

1 hour ago, xtriggerman said:

OK, its fun working on the old guns. If you ever get out this way (10min south of exit 322 I-40) I'd hook you up, mag & trigger while u watch. no $$. I take it you served in the Navy.

Take Care

Thanks for your very generous offer, xtriggerman. I just may take you up on that offer, if I can't get it cycling with the new parts I have coming. Actually, I was only replacing the aft, mag retainer spring, with the locking tabs. But, I have to remove the trigger parts to get the second screw out of the retainer spring. Or, at least it looks that way to me. That screw is buried under all of the trigger parts.

I was in the Navy... the aviation branch of the Navy...Airdales, the "black shoes" (regular Navy) called us.

 

Have most of the 342 triggers you've worked on, had rivets (aircraft rivets no less!) instead of pins holding the trigger parts in place? I have pins coming from Numrich. I hope they're not rivets.

 

Thanks again.

[xtriggerman]

WWMike, sure you guys are welcome to set n chat while I get the operating table layed out with the 342 vitals. I'v never seen rivets in any of those trigger assemblies. But then again I only had 320's a 325 and a few 340's to work on years ago. The general design should be the same.  I went to PA Gunsmithing school 79-81 worked at Auto Ordnance a few years and had a full service gunsmith business  82-96.  I was ready to get back into it. I got everything but the FFL and now I'm cancelling the effort due to the jerk in the White House's new ITAR manufacturing definition. I don't need legal drama in my life. If Hilary gets in maybe she'll define a gun hobby needing the same $2,350 dollar annual permit just like a business gunsmith. You cant make this s*** up.

 Thanks for your Service.

Edited August 15, 2016 by xtriggerman

[Sidewinder]

On 8/14/2016 at 11:00 PM, xtriggerman said:

WWMike, sure you guys are welcome to set n chat while I get the operating table layed out with the 342 vitals. I'v never seen rivets in any of those trigger assemblies. But then again I only had 320's a 325 and a few 340's to work on years ago. The general design should be the same.  I went to PA Gunsmithing school 79-81 worked at Auto Ordnance a few years and had a full service gunsmith business  82-96.  I was ready to get back into it. I got everything but the FFL and now I'm cancelling the effort due to the jerk in the White House's new ITAR manufacturing definition. I don't need legal drama in my life. If Hilary gets in maybe she'll define a gun hobby needing the same $2,350 dollar annual permit just like a business gunsmith. You cant make this s*** up.

 Thanks for your Service.

Wow! Xtriggerman, you sure have the smithing credentials. If the offer still stands, would you be available this Wednesday? If so, and Westwind Mike is available on Wednesday, we might just head up your way. I'm thinking that we'd be leaving Murfreesboro around 9AM and guessing it'd take about an hour to an hour and a half to get to your place... which should put us there around 10:30, Murfreesboro time (CST). I know that's pretty close to lunch time, so I'd be glad to stop and pick up us up lunch from some place on the way. We can exchange phone numbers through a PM to smooth out final plans. I got the new pins in today along with the mag rear retainer spring and two new screws to hold the spring, just in case they're needed.

 

Thanks

[xtriggerman]

PM sent

[Sidewinder]

On 8/16/2016 at 10:52 AM, xtriggerman said:

PM sent

I'd like to publicly thank xtriggerman for his help in resolving this problem for me. I'm not sure how much he'd like me to say, so I don't want to violate any understanding with him. I guess I can say this, as he listed his credentials in an earlier post. I have never seen a more skillful artisan in the area of gunsmithing in my life...and I'm no spring chicken. I'm very thankful for the help he gave me, and our new friendship. We, here on TGO, are fortunate to have such a highly qualified, experienced, and knowledgeable member in our midst. Thank you again, xtriggerman, you're the best!

[tde1078]

Not sure if anyone here can help but it's worth a shot. I'm trying to install a new magazine retainer spring (part 24 on numrich diagram) on my 342 .22hornet. I was able to get the old one out without removing the trigger bracket (part 22 on numrich diagram). Do I need to remove this to install the new retainer spring?