Scary Incident Last Night

[KahrMan]

This happened to my neighbors wife last night.  

 

She was coming home a little before 9 pm.  She was close to home and got a call from a friend.  It was an important call so she decided to park her car so she could concentrate on the call.  She turned into a neighborhood, went to the end of the street, turned around in the cul de sac, started heading back toward the main road and then parked on the street in front of a house.  

 

Most of Bellevue had a power outage last night that lasted for about an hour.  This was during that time.  She had been talking for about 10 mins when there is a knock on her window.  It startles her and she turns to see a man cradling a rifle in his arms.  He is turned sideways so it is pointing into the car but not right at her.  She rolls down her window a little and says what the hell are you doing with a rifle pointing at me.  He says we protect our neighborhood around here.  She was like I am just sitting here talking on the phone.  The interior light was on so he could that it was a woman by herself on the phone.  She say get a way from me and go home.  She was not even parked  in front of this guys house.  He lived at the next house down the street.  I understand keeping a watch on your neighborhood.  It is not a great idea to walk down the middle of the street with a rifle and knock on someones car window.

 

She pulls down the street and calls the police.  She explains everything that happens and says she wants him arrested for ag assault.   They talk it over and call their watch commander.  He says not to arrest the guy.  Just talk to him and get his info and that they will turn it over to a detective.  The officers told her to follow up with the detective and stress to him that she wants him prosecuted.  Whether that will happen or not nobody knows.  

They told her to leave before they went to talk to the guy.  When she was leaving two of the officers had their pistols drawn and the third was carrying an AR to go talk to the guy.  I am interested in hearing what the detective has to say in a couple of days.

 

[Raoul]

I have mixed emotions about this one.

 

[Omega]

No mixed emotion for me, seems to be an over reaction on her part.  While the whole rifle pointing thing is questionable, and may be an exaggeration, I don't see nothing wrong with people taking their own security seriously.  You don't know what has been going on in a strange neighborhood and you may just of entered into one that has been subject to high crime rates lately.

[GlockSpock]

Pointing a gun at a woman walking in the phone sitting in her own car on likely a public road?

Uncalled for.

Checking up on a random car sitting in the neighborhood to see what's going on?

That's fine.

If it is an overreaction how come three cops had two pistols and an AR to go question the guy?




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[glowdotGlock]

It doesn't really sound like he did anything illegal if he didn't threaten her with the rifle. I would not have done the same and would be upset if it happened to my wife but I don't see any reason for charging the man for tapping on a window just while cradling a rifle. Giving her a view down the muzzle would be a different story.

[Omega]

1 minute ago, CZ9MM said:

If it is an overreaction how come three cops had two pistols and an AR to go question the guy?

Seriously?  With the climate today how else are they supposed to answer a man-with-a-gun call?  Personally I would be surprised if they answered any other way.  My guess is nothing will come of it because there was no crime committed.

[KahrMan]

2 minutes ago, Omega said:

Seriously?  With the climate today how else are they supposed to answer a man-with-a-gun call?  Personally I would be surprised if they answered any other way.  My guess is nothing will come of it because there was no crime committed.

 

I do see both sides of this.  I am not so sure of the "no crime was committed."  An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm.  The threat does not have to be verbal.  Having a rifle pointed at your steering wheel while being confronted seems to me to meet the definition of assault.  Since it will come down to a he said, she said I doubt he will be charged.

[ou812]

I am with her.   That could have escalated real quick....if the neighbors wife  had a gun...she could have shot the guy and been within the law.  All she  had to say is his gun was pointed at her and she felt he was going to harm her.

What would many of y'all have done...if you were sitting on  a public street at night and not breaking any laws, minding your own business and a person walks up to with a gun pointed you way.   

I have done that many a times stopped to texted or check the gps.  

[GlockSpock]

Well, I'm a pro gun person. I do see both sides. I think he had every right to checkup on her and even. E armed while doing so.

I wasn't there. Maybe it wasn't that big a deal. But it sounds like the muzzle of his rifle may have been pointed closer than she would have liked. She had every right to be there if it was a public road.

I just see it as an intimidation tactic on his part.

Also, if at any point he stepped off his property he would be in possession of a long gun with the intent to go armed.

Maybe he was technically legal. Maybe she technically overreacted.

Maybe his neighbors were mass murdered the day before and he was scared.

I just think that it's overkill to to present yourself in such a manner while approaching a car parked on a public road with the cabin light on with a woman talking on the phone. It could have ended badly in several different ways. Maybe she thought he was robbing her and she pulled a gun on her? Then what?


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[KahrMan]

2 minutes ago, CZ9MM said:

I just see it as an intimidation tactic on his part.

Also, if at any point he stepped off his property he would be in possession of a long gun with the intent to go armed.

 

I agree that he was probably just trying to intimidate her.  The officer said that it was a firearms violation to carry the rifle off his property but since that is a misdemeanor they would have to have seen him to be able to charge him with that.

[TGO David]

That was stupid on the resident's part and he at the very least should have received a tongue lashing from the police.  The use of deadly force to protect property is not justified in Tennessee, first of all, and secondly the resident was no longer on his property when he entered the public street to confront the motorist.

Going off of your property, brandishing a firearm, to confront another citizen on public property to ask them "what the hell they are doing" is just stupid no matter the circumstances.

He could have easily been arrested for brandishing a weapon.  Probably should have been.

[MacGyver]

This is one of those situations where it doesn't matter if what he did was technically legal or not.  This man and his antics certainly turned someone who may have been a neutral bystander into a supporter of "common sense gun laws."

Seriously.  Why go confront someone in a situation like this?  It's stupid?  Did he have backup in his little posse?  What if the people in the car had had malicious intent?  What if there were more than one of them?  This guy, in his bravado escalated a situation needlessly.  

Because the lady was just talking on her phone, he just made gun owners at large look bad.  Lord knows we need some more examples of that.

This is Bellvue - not out in the country somewhere.  Monitor the situation from your living room window - and call the cops if you think something is going down.  It's Bellvue after all.  They'll be there pretty quick.

I'm all for taking care of your family and your neighbors.  But this was stupid - and maybe across the line legally.

Nobody wants the next Trayvon to be in Tennessee.

 

[monkeylizard]

14 minutes ago, KahrMan said:

I agree that he was probably just trying to intimidate her.  The officer said that it was a firearms violation to carry the rifle off his property but since that is a misdemeanor they would have to have seen him to be able to charge him with that.

I've always been a little unclear on the misdemeanor thing. I know that a cop has to witness it to make the charge themselves, but can't the citizen also witness it and make the charge? I guess what I'm asking is "how does citizen's arrest work in TN?" and no, I don't mean Gomer Pyle running around yelling "citizens arrest! citizens arrest!"

[KahrMan]

Not sure.  They basically told her there was nothing she could do to have him arrested last night.  They were just going to get both sides of the story and turn the info over to a detective.

[mikegideon]

The guy was wrong for "patrolling" the neighborhood with a rifle. But they may not charge him with aggravated assault for carelessly kinda pointing a rifle in her direction. AFIK, aggravated assault requires a real threat, like ON you and fixing to pull the trigger.

[E4 No More]

42 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

I've always been a little unclear on the misdemeanor thing. I know that a cop has to witness it to make the charge themselves, but can't the citizen also witness it and make the charge? I guess what I'm asking is "how does citizen's arrest work in TN?" and no, I don't mean Gomer Pyle running around yelling "citizens arrest! citizens arrest!"

In Missouri when I was a LEO her complaint was enough for me to arrest and charge him, but just having a weapon wasn't illegal. In Missouri, not aiming the rifle directly at her would with his finger on the trigger would be the same as having it slung on his shoulder. But there are cops who manipulate low-level incidents so that they can give a "talking to" in lieu of an arrest. 

[-boatman-]

I see both sides of this and this is one thing I have not seen mentioned. Why did she pull into the end of a  cul de sac when electricity was off to talk on the phone? IMO not the smartest thing to do. 

[mikegideon]

7 minutes ago, SWJewellTN said:

In Missouri when I was a LEO her complaint was enough for me to arrest and charge him, but just having a weapon wasn't illegal. In Missouri, not aiming the rifle directly at her would with his finger on the trigger would be the same as having it slung on his shoulder. But there are cops who manipulate low-level incidents so that they can give a "talking to" in lieu of an arrest. 

You mean like telling Rambo to put his damn rifle in the house, and remind him of the Trayvon Martin case? That kinda talk?

[E4 No More]

1 minute ago, mikegideon said:

You mean like telling Rambo to put his damn rifle in the house, and remind him of the Trayvon Martin case? That kinda talk?

Yep! Or, "Do that stupid  again and I'll make sure you get charged!" kind of talk.

[monkeylizard]

What else should she have done? Kept driving along a darkened winding road taking an important call that's requiring her attention? Just pulled over on the non-existent shoulder? She did exactly as she was supposed to do.

Dude playing Rick Grimes is a paranoid jackass. If Bellevue can go through the floods we went through in 2010 without devolving into Lord of the Flies, a simple power outage hardly justifies patrolling with a long gun. Cell service was up. The low clouds still had that dull pink glow of the Nashville light pollution. It was clear this wasn't some widespread EOTWAWKI event, and Bellevue is not exactly a powder-keg waiting for any little thing to send us all into a rampaging looting frenzy.

 

As far as the cul-de-sac goes, (and I'm only guessing) it was likely one of several "neighborhoods" on the main road that leads to the neighborhood where KahrMan and I live. There are 3 or 4 in a row that are little more than a cul-de-sac with 20-30 houses.

Edited August 9, 2016 by monkeylizard

[GlockSpock]

I see both sides of this and this is one thing I have not seen mentioned. Why did she pull into the end of a  cul de sac when electricity was off to talk on the phone? IMO not the smartest thing to do. 

I mean, if you were out in the country, turning around and then sitting in someone's half mile long driveway may not be the smartest.

In the city, pulling off the main road and sitting in a low traffic neighborhood seems like the safest thing to do in terms of operating a motor vehicle.


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[McGarrett]

He should have just called the police and reported a suspicious car parked on the street and let them handle it.

She may think twice about parking in a neighborhood at night again. Why does she care if he gets prosecuted? After all she was the suspicious person in his neighborhood. It kind of cancels out. They both contributed to the situation.

Question: Was it really that Important of a call to risk a distracted encounter with an armed guy in dark neighborhood.  Lesson to be learned; put up the cell phone and keep driving. If you absolutely have to stop don't pull into a dark dead end road.

I'd say both parties are lucky that nothing went wrong and hopefully they learn a lesson from this. No harm no foul.

[bubbadavis]

30 minutes ago, monkeylizard said:

What else should she have done? Kept driving along a darkened winding road taking an important call that's requiring her attention? Just pulled over on the non-existent shoulder? She did exactly as she was supposed to do.

Dude playing Rick Grimes is a paranoid jackass. If Bellevue can go through the floods we went through in 2010 without devolving into Lord of the Flies, a simple power outage hardly justifies patrolling with a long gun. Cell service was up. The low clouds still had that dull pink glow of the Nashville light pollution. It was clear this wasn't some widespread EOTWAWKI event, and Bellevue is not exactly a powder-keg waiting for any little thing to send us all into a rampaging looting frenzy.

 

As far as the cul-de-sac goes, (and I'm only guessing) it was likely one of several "neighborhoods" on the main road that leads to the neighborhood where KahrMan and I live. There are 3 or 4 in a row that are little more than a cul-de-sac with 20-30 houses.

But it's Bellevue! You obviously need someone to lay down suppressive fire while you evaluate the threat...:)

 

I live across the main road from monkeylizard and KahrMan. My biggest concern when walking around at night are the neighborhood dogs! I went for a short walk when the power went out just to take in the peace and quiet.

[gunslinger_Griff]

2 minutes ago, McGarrett said:

He should have just called the police and reported a suspicious car parked on the street and let them handle it.

Like most, I can see both sides to the story... But the rifle pointed anywhere near her direction is intimidation... 

I think McGarrett nailed it.. .Should he have called the LEOs and only gotten involved if she posed a threat to the neighborhood? Yes... Can I see the guy wanna be a Rambo? Yup... Maybe I'm behind, but my firearms only come in to play when there is an obvious threat to my persons or property. 

 

[monkeylizard]

32 minutes ago, bubbadavis said:

I went for a short walk when the power went out just to take in the peace and quiet.

 

On a somewhat lighter note, I was locked out of my house because I went for a walk before the power went out. My wife and I had gone for a walk in the neighborhood and I only took the garage door remote with me. Oops. Lesson learned.

Edited August 9, 2016 by monkeylizard