Do you NEED to store food for 40 years?

[AmPaTerry]

I see folks paying a LOT for food that has extremely long shelf life.
Why?

Do you REALLY want to buy this and store it away for half a century?
Now don't get me wrong, I have eaten WWII C rations in 1967 in a disaster area, and DARNED glad to get them.
But do you WANT to store food for that long?

Here is what we do:
When we hit a sale on canned goods, we buy extra.
In the pantry, we scoot everything forward and store the new ones in the BACK.
We constantly USE what is in the front.
By buying extra every time you shop, you build up a stock of canned goods.
By constantly rotating them, you do NOT NEED those special high-priced decades-long storage items.
An additional benefit is you are eating the SAME food every day that you will be eating when the feces encounters the rotating ventilation device.  There will be no shock to your system caused by switching from Green Giant canned corn to your MRE's.

Pasta, rice, beans - all are stored in air-tight containers and ROTATED so they are constantly being used.
The hard part is meat; make sure to stock tuna, chicken, salmon, SPAM, etc., and use it occasionally to keep the stock rotated.

Talk to your Morman friends; part of their doctrine is to have a years supply of food on hand, and they can be a valuable resource of advice on how to properly do this.

 

 

[battleop]

I think it's a good idea to have a combination of both.   I would't not buy a lot of long term food at one time instead I would maybe buy $100/year of 25 year+ food for a few years and then continue to do what you are doing.   The buying of canned food in the way you are buying is more of a short term plan that depends on the ability to be able to replenish your supply.   Where the long term food comes in is when you get in a situation where you can't resupply.     If you buy a little here and there you spread the expiration date out over time and it's a little easier to spread the expense over time.

[nightrunner]

1 year, maybe 2 is about all you can get out of rotating your stock of commonly used foods. Longer than that and you need the air tight long term storage of beans, rice, etc. 

Practicaly speaking though, the longest I have heard of is 7-10 years storage. Pretty much have to rotate your stock beyond that, which you should be doing anyways.

 

Realistically though, 2 years is really about all you NEED. Whatever time SHTF, use your stocks to survive until spring. Then you should be planting a garden and hunting in the fall and winter and/or raising animals. You can't store enough food to survive indefinitely. You have to replenish somehow. This is assuming it's a permanent TEOTWAWKI. If it's a temporary SHTF or a regional disaster, temporary stocks are fine until supply lines are back in order.

[Garufa]

If you find yourself in a position that you need food with that kind of shelf-life you won't be around long enough to eat it.

[Randall53]

I think unless you're a regular primitive camper/hiker type person, the long range freeze dried food is not as good an option as what you are doing. It nothing happens and you keep the long term food too long, then I'd think it's a waste since you'd have to replace it. But if you were a regular user and kept your stock up by rotating it, the long term would be the best. I have some stuff, but nothing like the hard core people have. Water would not be a problem for me though.

[Randall53]

9 minutes ago, Garufa said:

If you find yourself in a position that you need food with that kind of shelf-life you won't be around long enough to eat it.

I'm with Garufa. Look around at most people.....If something that catastrophic happens lack of meds and medical care will kill more Americans than lack of food will. Then disease outbreaks and loss of sanitation will take a whole lot more.   

Edited August 1, 2016 by Randall53

[Garufa]

55 minutes ago, Randall53 said:

I'm with Garufa. Look around at most people.....If something that catastrophic happens lack of meds and medical care will kill more Americans than lack of food will. Then disease outbreaks and loss of sanitation will take a whole lot more.   

It will be the people looking for food that will kill you a lot quicker than that.

[Randall53]

Just now, Garufa said:

It will be the people looking for food that will kill you a lot quicker than that.

Good point!!

[DWARREN123]

You rotate it like any stock item, no matter its shelf life. Storing food and other items for bad/hard times is not a bad idea.

[ehull20000]

I agree with storing food to a certain extent.  Anything with a 40 year shelf life probably doesn't equal food in my book.  

 

I'm learning to garden this year because I'm pretty good at hunting and fishing right now.  My family has 2-3 weeks of food right now and we are adding more with each trip to the store.  Same with cases of water.  

[AmPaTerry]

10 hours ago, Garufa said:

It will be the people looking for food that will kill you a lot quicker than that.

Make that TRY to kill me and it would be more correct.

I live ten miles from the nearest TINY town, twenty miles from a SMALL town, fifty miles from an actual city.  Around me are lots and lots of armed red-necks with a distrust of the federal government that extends back to what they call the War of Northern Aggression.  If I could DESIGN a bug-out location, I could not come up with a better one.

Oh - wait - I DID design this one, 36 years ago when we moved here!

And yes indeed - a few packets of garden seeds in the freezer is a FINE idea - and make sure they are NOT the hybrid stuff but will produce seeds that can be planted the NEXT year -

PLUS - I do not hunt, and do not allow hunting.  As a result, our place is filled with deer, turkey, rabbits, squirrels, dove, quail, etc. and all of it tame enough for me to harvest with a knife if I needed to.  THIS is my long term meat storage plan.

Keeping warm is another issue.  We have a 500 gallon propane tank which will get us through one winter.  Beyond that, I can rig a wood burning heater in place of the propane stove.  But burning wood sends up that nice column of smoke - an advertisement that there is PROBABLY FOOD HERE, so an additional reason for arms and ammunition.

I pray that NONE of these preparations are ever needed -

[Randall53]

1 hour ago, AmPaTerry said:

Make that TRY to kill me and it would be more correct.

I live ten miles from the nearest TINY town, twenty miles from a SMALL town, fifty miles from an actual city.  Around me are lots and lots of armed red-necks with a distrust of the federal government that extends back to what they call the War of Northern Aggression.  If I could DESIGN a bug-out location, I could not come up with a better one.

Oh - wait - I DID design this one, 36 years ago when we moved here!

And yes indeed - a few packets of garden seeds in the freezer is a FINE idea - and make sure they are NOT the hybrid stuff but will produce seeds that can be planted the NEXT year -

PLUS - I do not hunt, and do not allow hunting.  As a result, our place is filled with deer, turkey, rabbits, squirrels, dove, quail, etc. and all of it tame enough for me to harvest with a knife if I needed to.  THIS is my long term meat storage plan.

Keeping warm is another issue.  We have a 500 gallon propane tank which will get us through one winter.  Beyond that, I can rig a wood burning heater in place of the propane stove.  But burning wood sends up that nice column of smoke - an advertisement that there is PROBABLY FOOD HERE, so an additional reason for arms and ammunition.

I pray that NONE of these preparations are ever needed -

I envy you AmPaTerry, that's for sure. I'd love to live in a place like that and not so much for the survivalist part, but because I've always dreamed of a place like that I just never made it happen. But I'll have to take my chances if the world goes to pot since I live in the outskirts of Chattanooga. You didn't mention water, but it sounds like you have a lot of things figured out. I do have provisions for a month or so for my wife and I in case of a localized natural disaster. However, I'm a realist and realistically speaking, I feel a major nationwide long term catastrophe or SHTF type scenario, which to me is, being complete loss of the power grid for years if not forever, would take us back to the 1800's in seconds and very few would survive. There would be no clean water, no fuel, no medical help or medicines, no air conditioning, no communication. It truly would be like stepping out of a time machine into the past.....way in the past before electricity and electricity is the heart of our way of life. It gives us everything we have to day. Life back then was very hard and there were much fewer people in those days. The early days of our country is an interesting subject and I have read a lot about it. Even if you know what to do it's a tough way of life day in and day out. The pioneers of our country back in the 17-1800's were very tough and knew how to live without refrigeration, air conditioning, and all of the other commodities we are so accustomed to. They never experienced them and didn't miss them like people today would if they were thrust back into that way of life. The mental aspect of this would really make it hard. Some of the healthy middle aged and older folks and probably some of the young people of today would have the best chance, but even then it would be a major struggle and take a lot of luck. There are those that are pretty much living the life now and nothing would change for them and they would be fine. But outside of these small groups, many people would die within the first week. Most being the very sick and elderly, depending on the season. Take now for instance. The heat we are experiencing would be devastating. So would the cold in winter. Millions would be dead in six months taking the knowledge and expertise of maintaining our current way of life with them making chances of a comeback very slim. With no way to dispose of the bodies, especially in this heat, disease would wreak havoc and is always a major concern in some countries after major earthquakes or hurricanes. Hollywood has their versions of these events, but in the real world I think it would be much worse than we can imagine. I feel even the hard core hoarders would need some luck to make it long term. and many wouldn't make it unless they lived in a place like yours and had enough people to defend it. This is only my feelings on the subject, however, and I'm not saying to anyone else that it's hopeless and preparing is useless, that's just the way I feel. So everyone else has to do what they feel is right for them. I feel your very last statement is the real takeaway from your post. Pray we never experience this.

[Wingshooter]

We rotate canned food that we eat like you suggest. We also have several 5gal food grade buckets with the mylar bags and oxygen absorbers vacuum sealed with beans, white rice and a few other things. I'm not exactly sure how long those will last, but it should be for a while.

[Billrube]

The Mountain House freeze dried stuff has a shelf life of 25yrs in the #10 cans. 7 to 10 years in the pouches. MREs....its a crap shoot exactly how long they are edible...

The mountain house products are actually pretty durn good tasting. The Wise stuff that I tried gave me "bubble guts" and cleaned out the colon pretty good. The Wise products are extremely bland too. 

Of course we keep extra can goods as already mentioned above. Being somewhat extra cautious, I have put back many jars of rice and beans. Sealed properly they will keep for decades as well. 

Short term problems I would start with the pantry and MREs. Longer term, I'd begin to mix in the dry/dehydrated stuff with fresh meat.

As far as a "need" for food that lasts 40 years? I don't have a "need" but I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. 

 

 

[gregintenn]

I've about decided I don't want to live in a world where one would need years and years of food stored.

I honestly don't see how that would or could happen anyway.

We'd either all die, or sort out whatever problems caused the disruption in fairly short order.

A short term supply of food, water, cash, toilet paper, etc. can come in handy however.

[MacGyver]

I'm with you on that, Greg.  

While I do keep supplies set aside, and am trained in and regularly practice survival skills, the heart of the matter for me is that me holed up with my family while everyone else starves or whatever is out of sync with the way I live the rest of my life.  

There is a part of the Mormon ethic that's really found it's way into my planning and preparation.  While they believe in having a year's worth of provisions set aside - that's as much about being able to help the community around you as taking care of your own. 

So, I guess for me - I still have to answer the question of "who is my neighbor?" - even when times are bad.  

Maybe especially when times are bad.

 

[Ronald_55]

1 hour ago, Billrube said:

 MREs....its a crap shoot exactly how long they are edible...

Are they edible in the first place? I don't really class them as food to begin with.

[Billrube]

40 minutes ago, Ronald_55 said:

Are they edible in the first place? I don't really class them as food to begin with.

Yes they are edible. If I had to choose between Cracker Barrel and an MRE I'd go with Cracker Barrel. However, I came into a free supply of a couple dozen cases a few years ago. I had just started a new job and didn't have a lot of money...so I took an MRE for lunch every day for the first 2 or 3 months. 

Some stuff was better than others but they are not bad. There is a lot to eat in a standard MRE pack. A little salt and hot sauce most of it tasted pretty good.

[Ronald_55]

I understand the money thing. I lived on ramen for years in school and during my first job. So having those free would make a big difference. 

I was 1/2 joking about them being so bad. And as you said, hot sauce helps anything. The real issue is that people think they last forever, but I think they really only have a 5 year shelf life (from memory, correct me if I am wrong). So if you did not rotate these out like the other food, it would end up being worthless.

I keep a couple buckets of the long shelf life camping pouches around because I can store them in the garage. They are relatively pest proof and do not require a stable temp. I picked them up at a great deal, so the cost was very manageable. I also bought a few of the Coast Guard Emergency rations. They are not terribly light, but pack a lot of calories in a pack smaller than a coffee brick. That way I can keep a couple in car in case I need to make my way home on foot or get stranded somewhere I cannot walk out of.

On top of that though, I do buy extra cans of things like beans and soups in case things get bad. These can be opened and eaten without cooking. Also, all the family will eat them. I try to keep rice and dried beans because they will last for a LONG time if you keep pests out of them.

I hope I never end up needing 40 years of food stored up, but I like to make sure that I have plenty of time to devise a plan before having to look for more. Realistically, if something happened that kept us from growing food in the long term, 40 years is not going to be enough time to wait it out.  

How you prepare is all based on what you are preparing for. Do you prepare for nuclear war, a fast moving pandemic, zombies, EMP attack, solar flares, or a comet crashing into Earth. There is no way you can plan for it all.

[DWARREN123]

I would not want to eat 40 year old food although I believe I may have eaten some during my time in the ARMY!

[bersaguy]

At my age and in my health I have to give thought each month about buying a months worth of groceries at a time. I do normally buy a month worth at a time when I go shopping. I do have a closet full of long storage stuff like Ramen Noodles in both flavors. I probably have 15 cases of them. My dog like them too but likes the chicken best so have more of those. Got probably a case of  cannedTuna which I rotate every 2 months along with the canned Chicken from Sama that is dated. I rotate that before the expiration date. Probably 20lbs of coffee and about 30 cases of water and I add to that every month but I do use some of it each month also. Makes better coffee than tap water does. I buy it in 20 oz bottle cases and also buy some gallons for my coffee ever so often. Beanee Weinies buy the case, Vienna's buy the case. I can't remember all that I have in that closet but I do keep a list inside the door with an inventory. I figure it would get me through till either SHTF was over or I was dead or both.

[JAB]

Keep in mind, too, that the date stamped on canned foods IS NOT an expiration date.  It is a 'best if used by' date and is there at least partially because of government requirements.  From the FAQ on the Hormel website - notice the second answer states that the product is ALWAYS safe to consume as long as the seal has remained intact, etc.  In other words, as long as it is stored correctly and the can/seal is in good shape there is a good chance that commercially canned food will essentially never go 'bad', per se.  It may lose color, texture, flavor and - in some cases - some nutritional value but even that loss is 'gradual'.  I don't think the corporate lawyers would allow Hormel to make such a statement if the company weren't pretty danged sure it was true - too much potential for being sued by someone who ate some of their canned food past the 'best by' date.  Found here: http://www.hormelfoods.com/About/FAQs/FAQs :

Quote

Can we serve a canned product beyond the “Best By” date shown on the container?

We recommend using our canned item by the date printed on the container for best quality, flavor and freshness. After this time, the product should be safe to use as long as the can has not been compromised (no dents, split seams or other container damage).

We recommend storing canned items in a cool, dry place to adequately preserve the flavor.

 

Quote

What is the shelf life of a Hormel Foods product in an unopened can?

The product is always safe to consume as long as the seal has remained intact, unbroken and securely attached. However, the flavor and freshness of the product gradually begin to decline after three years from the manufacturing date.

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2017 by JAB

[JAB]

I do want to slowly build up at least a small supply of freeze-dried, mylar pouch meals just because they are so stable, light, easy to store and it would be easy to keep them in a plastic bin or bucket with a lid and toss the bins or buckets in my truck if for some, strange reason I did have to leave my home (aka bug-in location) in a hurry.  Honestly, my prepping is more in consideration of a natural disaster or possibly a foreign or domestic terrorist hacker screwing up the grid than in preparation for a government invasion, etc.  In the case of a natural disaster if it were to make the area where I live uninhabitable then I would have no choice but to leave, at least for a little while, and having food I could quickly and easily load up to take with me would be good.  I already keep a small, plastic tote/bin with some canned soup, emergency meal replacement bars, a few bottles of water, stainless steel bowls I could eat out of or use to boil more water and a Sterno stove with fuel in my truck just in case it takes me a little while to get home.  The canned foods would be difficult to carry if  had to go on foot.  They would be more for a shelter in place situation, a situation where driving home might be very slow going due to temporarily impassable roads or for an initial couple of days when it might be better to stay put before heading out toward home on foot.  Abandoning my vehicle would be my last choice but if it were down to staying with the truck and dying or trying to walk home and having a chance of surviving then I'd have to try and hoof it.  In that event, the few freeze dried meals I have in there could be easily stashed in my get home bag (also in the truck) to hopefully sustain me until I could reach home and my other supplies.

Edited May 30, 2017 by JAB

[Ronald_55]

3 minutes ago, JAB said:

I do want to slowly build up at least a small supply of freeze-dried, mylar pouch meals just because they are so stable, light, easy to store and it would be easy to keep them in a plastic bin or bucket with a lid and toss the bins or buckets in my truck if for some, strange reason I did have to leave my home (aka bug-in location) in a hurry.  Honestly, my prepping is more in consideration of a natural disaster or possibly a foreign or domestic terrorist hacker screwing up the grid than in preparation for a government invasion, etc.  In the case of a natural disaster if it were to make the area where I live uninhabitable then I would have no choice but to leave, at least for a little while, and having food I could quickly and easily load up to take with me would be good.  I already keep a small, plastic tote/bin with some canned soup, emergency meal replacement bars, a few bottles of water, stainless steel bowls I could eat out of or use to boil more water and a Sterno stove with fuel in my truck just in case it takes me a little while to get home.  The canned foods would be difficult to carry if  had to go on foot.  They would be more for a shelter in place situation or for an initial couple of days when it might be better to stay put before heading out toward home on foot.  Abandoning my vehicle would be my last choice but if it were down to staying with the truck and dying or trying to walk home and having a chance of surviving then I'd have to try and hoof it.  In that event, the few freeze dried meals I have in there could be easily stashed in my get home bag (also in the truck) to hopefully sustain me until I could reach home and my other supplies.

I found that buying the buckets of packs from the freeze-dried food companies can be economical and provides a ready to go solution. I leave them sealed so that it improves shelf like and improves pest resistance. Plus they stack better than a bunch of packs. Something like this (just an example I saw at a decent price of $1.42 per serving):

Wise Foods 60 Serving Entree only 01-160 Grab and Go Food Kit

One thing to look out for though, as with all these foods, is that 60 servings is actually 13 packs. Most are four servings with a couple 8 serving packs tossed in. So if you were fixing them on the hoof and were alone, you would not get 60 meals out of it if you fixed it in the pouch as most people do. That might not be a bad thing, but just something to keep in mind. 

Another option I mentioned up the thread is the SOS Emergency Food. It is kinda heavy, but packs a lot of calories in a small space. Downsides are that there is no variety and without storing it in another container, it is not as pest proof. This is what I have tossed in my Get-Home-Bag. I don't have to worry about the heat in the car spoiling it. They also make water pouches that are for long term. If it takes me longer to get there than that food lasts, I figure it is REALLY bad and I can start searching abandoned vehicles and storefronts for more.

Random example:

LOT OF 5 3600 CALORIE EMERGENCY FOOD RATIONS SOS

Like you, my biggest worry is being set to get home if things go bad and having supplies in case it takes me longer to get there. At home I can exploit the canned and other food we have in the cabinet and still leave the freeze-dried food buckets in case we have to jump and run.