Looking for another backup gun -

[AmPaTerry]

I have crappy luck with used stuff, so absolutely will NOT buy a used gun unless it is some kind of antique collectors item.  Right now, I am looking for a Charter Arms Pitbull in 9mm.  Reading lots of reviews for this little gun, MOST complained about the difficulty of loading it due to the spring clips in the cylinder.  Then I read a review that said loading became VERY fast and intuitive with just a little practice - when loading it from a magazine! 
I want this piece as a backup to my 9mm G17, for which I carry two extra magazines.
Having a backup that can use the ammo I already carry makes a lot of sense to me, and if it loads EASIER from a magazine, so much the better!

OK - now for the stupid question.

I want to carry this one in an ankle holster.
I am right handed.
Where do I wear this holster - inside left leg or outside right leg?
And how long will I wear it before I quit either smacking the gun into my other ankle or stop hitting it on objects that my leg is too close to?  I mean, how long will it take assuming I have an IQ somewhat above room temperature?

[xsubsailor]

I think you're the only one that can answer that question (where to wear it). Which one is easier/quicker for you to reach?

[nightrunner]

I think most ankle carry is inside the left ankle.

 

I would suggest a G43 or G26 as a backup instead, but if the Charter is what you want, go for it.

[AmPaTerry]

1 hour ago, nightrunner said:

I think most ankle carry is inside the left ankle.

 

I would suggest a G43 or G26 as a backup instead, but if the Charter is what you want, go for it.

I look at it this way:
I need a backup if my main weapon has failed.
Why would that happen?
Lots of possible reasons.  Maybe I fell into a creek, maybe I got coated with mud, SOMETHING has caused my auto to fail me.
I am an auto lover - but I must admit that a wheel gun has LESS chance of failure than an auto.
If some condition has rendered my G17 inoperable, are not the chances pretty good that the auto backup will be inoperable too?
That is why I want a revolver for a backup.  They CAN fail, of course, but not as likely as an auto.

[Wingshooter]

My mom has a Ruger LCR 9mm. I always thought it would make a nice ankle gun (although, I'd prob go 357 but that's another thread  ). I'm not familiar with the pitbul other than the internet.

 

As far as ankle carry... I prefer on the inside of the left ankle (right handed). That way I don't bump it on everything, conceals better, it's not my driving foot and I can draw it better. With that said, I have a real hard time with it. Maybe I just don't have a good enough holster, but my G43 and PF9 seems way too clumsy on my ankle. I can get away with a light 380 (i.e, P3AT), but I still feel like I'm going to loose it.

[Patton]

I am right handed and I have worn on the inside of my left ankle. Unless you are riding a motorcycle occasionally that is the way I recommend, but you would still use the right handed holster. I have also worn a left handed ankle holster, but much prefer the rh holster. I find a 30oz gun just too heavy. Something around 20oz is about the max. I did my 25oz loaded 640 for a day and thought it was possible, but not easy. All of this was with Galco ankle holsters. 

 

I understand your logic with the 9mm and loading out of a magazine. I have heard the 9mm pit bull is not perfect and the two one of my gun shops have sold have went back to the manufacturer. Apparently, not extracting a case is what many experience. I think the ejectors are weak which leaves the extractor slipping over the rim and leaving a stuck case. They may have improved the design over the last year or two. 

Unless you are law enforcement I think you have an almost un-calculatable chance of needing a backup, and needing to reload it from your primary. 

 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Patton

[TNWNGR]

I've carried a lot of different BUG's over the years but only two were in the same caliber as my primary service handgun. The concept of ammunition compatibility between the primary and BUG is more of a nice concept then actual practicality from my viewpoint. As to the Charco Pitbull in 9mmP. I believe I'd rather go with a Ruger LCR in 9mmP instead for peace of mind.

Ankle carry is best on he inside of your weak side ankle for accessibility from kneeling, sitting and prone positions. It also conceals better and doesn't hang up on things as you step over or around them as much as on the outside of your ankle. IMHO you'd be better served by going with a weak side pocket carry using a Ruger LCP or KelTec P3AT both of which are in .380 ACP.  

[kieefer]

Being R/H I use an ankle holster most of the time on my inside left ankle holding a LCP or a P238. My S&W revolver is on the hip. If you want a revolver I think the LCR would be a better choice and I know you said no more used guns but being a revolver, and a Ruger, I don't think you can go wrong with a used one plus there's plenty of used LCR's out there.

GL

[Mark A]

Galco ankle holster, G-26 and get the calf strap for the galco. It took me 3-4 days to get over feeling like I had an anchor strapped to my ankle. I've carried a G-33 every day at work for over 5 years. With my sleek, svelte, fighting machine body I can't wear IWB unless I am untucked and I'm just not an untucked at work kind of guy.

Don't bother with the spare mag ankle thingy unless you are going to sew a retaining strap to close over the top of the mag for retention. Rumor has it the first day you wear it and go visit a customer the mag will slip out and slide across the floor and your customer will almost die from laughing so hard at the look of horror on your face.

Now I notice when I don't have it more than when I do...

You're welcome...

Mark

[Randall53]

Well, I'm a Glock fan and I think the 42 or 43 is what I'd choose. 

[AmPaTerry]

Thank you, guys, for all those replies.  Your comments and thoughts on this are appreciated.  I will not have an ankle mag holster; I have a dual on my gunbelt that gives me 52 total rounds of 9mm, which should be sufficient for anything short of a zombie apocalypse.
The driving is an excellent point - and the consensus that inside left ankle makes a LOT of sense - thank you!!

And, from what I am hearing, the whole idea may be a moot point; Charter Arms says they are running full-bore on this one and cannot keep up with orders.  My LGS has not been able to locate one yet for me.
 

[chances R]

Wheel guns are NOT more reliable.  You ever looked at the inside of one?  Much like a watch........lots of small parts.  When they lock up, they are really locked up.  If you fall in the creek how is that wheel gun not going to get muddy too?  In fact, you may be stuck up to your knees in mud and no way to access your gun.  Quick swish in the water and most of your reliable autos should still be working.   Now with that said, if you like your wheel gun you can keep your wheel gun (sound familiar?)  Like others, I would carry another auto in same caliber like the 43, CM9 etc.

[Randall53]

I vote for the Glock 43

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEtwi3b5E_g

[Patton]

Something I forgot to add; the Pitbull is built on the larger Bulldog frame. In fact, it was originally a 6 shot 9mm but was redesigned to be a five shot to make it more reliable. It is not as large as a k frame Smith, but it isn't a j frame or a LCR size gun either. I don't know who makes a good ankle holster for it. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by Patton

[MuscleHead]

On 8/1/2016 at 1:30 PM, AmPaTerry said:

I have crappy luck with used stuff, so absolutely will NOT buy a used gun unless it is some kind of antique collectors item.  Right now, I am looking for a Charter Arms Pitbull in 9mm.  Reading lots of reviews for this little gun, MOST complained about the difficulty of loading it due to the spring clips in the cylinder.  Then I read a review that said loading became VERY fast and intuitive with just a little practice - when loading it from a magazine! 
I want this piece as a backup to my 9mm G17, for which I carry two extra magazines.
Having a backup that can use the ammo I already carry makes a lot of sense to me, and if it loads EASIER from a magazine, so much the better!

OK - now for the stupid question.

I want to carry this one in an ankle holster.
I am right handed.
Where do I wear this holster - inside left leg or outside right leg?
And how long will I wear it before I quit either smacking the gun into my other ankle or stop hitting it on objects that my leg is too close to?  I mean, how long will it take assuming I have an IQ somewhat above room temperature?

A right handed ankle holster will be for the inside of your left leg. Its a bit different at first but i have never banged my ankle gun on anything. You will be constantly looking at your ankle for about a week while wearing it though. But keep in mind no one looks at your ankles so a small bulge is not noticeable to anyone.

I would like to persuade you to consider a different back up gun though. Considering your primary gun is a glock 17 you should carry a bug in a glock 26. Same exact operation and will take the spare glock 17 mags. This is my exact setup. G17 carried IWB at 4/5 o clock and a g26 in a gaclo ankle glove. My ankle gun is a backup to me and a way i can arm someone else(family,friends,stranger) if i have the need in a active shooter situation.

[AmPaTerry]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 8:41 AM, chances R said:

Wheel guns are NOT more reliable.  You ever looked at the inside of one?  Much like a watch........lots of small parts.  When they lock up, they are really locked up.  If you fall in the creek how is that wheel gun not going to get muddy too?  In fact, you may be stuck up to your knees in mud and no way to access your gun.  Quick swish in the water and most of your reliable autos should still be working.   Now with that said, if you like your wheel gun you can keep your wheel gun (sound familiar?)  Like others, I would carry another auto in same caliber like the 43, CM9 etc.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/10/8/why-choose-a-wheelgun/

A semi-auto has several failure modes that are not present in a wheel gun.  I have, over the years, had several jams in a semi auto pistol and rifle which cause them to stop going BANG until the cause is corrected.  And clearing a jam CAN be near impossible in a gunfight.  A wheelgun, on the other hand, IF a round fails to fire, merely requires pulling the trigger again.

 

Edited August 7, 2016 by AmPaTerry

[Patton]

47 minutes ago, AmPaTerry said:

A wheelgun, on the other hand, IF a round fails to fire, merely requires pulling the trigger again. 

 

You better hope! I have only experienced maybe two revolver malfunctions. I had an ejector rod come unscrewed enough to cause it not to close. I have also experienced some crimp jump that caused the cylinder to bind. Both of these were easily fixed though.

[chances R]

You don't have to take my word for it.  The owner of Rangemaster, Tom Givens, with nearly 40 YRS of teaching LEO at all levels including revolver only classes has seen them fail multiple times.  That is just one reason the semiauto is the standard handgun now.  All are mechanical devices and subject to failure .....big and small, that is why we practice malfunction drills.  But with quality weapons and ammo the semiauto is more simplistic and reliable.

Edited August 8, 2016 by chances R

[TNWNGR]

10 hours ago, AmPaTerry said:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/10/8/why-choose-a-wheelgun/

A semi-auto has several failure modes that are not present in a wheel gun.  I have, over the years, had several jams in a semi auto pistol and rifle which cause them to stop going BANG until the cause is corrected.  And clearing a jam CAN be near impossible in a gunfight.  A wheelgun, on the other hand, IF a round fails to fire, merely requires pulling the trigger again.

 

Pistols of the 1960's and 1970's went through a transformational reliability revision in order to consistently work with available hollow point service ammunition. The same thing happened with the ammunition itself in order to make it function better in service pistols. All along the myth of the revolver being the better gun flourished. That changed with the Beretta 92, 3rd gen S&W's and Glock.

The wheel gun could and frequently did lock up to the point it couldn't be put back into service in the field. You would have loved going through basic police school and firearms training with a revolver and seeing the examples of what could go wrong. Pocket and ankle carry subject a revolver to a lot more dust and grit then you'd realize unless you do so for several years and pay attention to the revolver (or pistols) condition.

[DaveTN]

As others said, the holster goes on the inside of your left leg. A boot or half boot that helps support it helps. A few days to get use to it.

I would recommend a S&W J-frame or Ruger LCR over a Charter Arms. I carried a Model 36 S&W in an ankle holster for years. As far as hard to find on the Charter Arms; Buds has them in stock at a price you probably won’t find at your LGS. Every time I have ordered from them it has been at my LGS in 2-3 days. 

[AmPaTerry]

I appreciate all the answers on this topic, guys.
The revolver vs semi-automatic debate is very much alive and well, and will not be settled here.
From my own searches, I am finding more studies that show the revolver to be more reliable in the field, however.
Can they fail?  Of course they can; ANY mechanical device can fail, even a hammer.  But when you depend on the cartridge itself to eject, cock, and chamber the next cartridge, you inject several failure modes that are simply not present in a pistol that leaves these tasks to the shooter.

I LOVE the semi-auto.  I own a bunch of them, ranging from .22 to .45.  They are my FIRST CHOICE in a defense situation, due to round capacity and reloading speed.  But I am a design engineer with a ton of experience, and very aware of the fact that the more automatic a device is, the easier it is to glitch it.  Your hammer can fail, absolutely.  But not as often as a nail gun.  Your screwdriver can fail.  But not as often as an electric screwdriver.  If I drop my 1911 and my Blackhawk in the mud and then pull them both out and start shooting, I know positively which one is more likely to fail before it is empty.  Mud around the cylinder will make the trigger of the Blackhawk harder to pull, but it will more than likely still go bang.  Mud around the slide of the 1911 will cause it to fail to cycle.  True, that jamb MIGHT be cleared by manually cycling the slide - but it might not.

Another of my back-ups is a pocket carry double barreled derringer, which is even simpler.  A SINGLE SHOT derringer would be simpler yet, and therefore even less likely to fail.  A single shot derringer with no safety and a fixed firing pin on the hammer would be least likely to fail, but would add the risk of changing my singing voice to soprano, so is not in consideration as a pocket piece.

Dave, I appreciate the heads up on Bud's.  I will talk to my LGS today about this - -

[Patton]

4 hours ago, AmPaTerry said:

Another of my back-ups is a pocket carry double barreled derringer, which is even simpler.  A SINGLE SHOT derringer would be simpler yet, and therefore even less likely to fail.  A single shot derringer with no safety and a fixed firing pin on the hammer would be least likely to fail, but would add the risk of changing my singing voice to soprano, so is not in consideration as a pocket piece.

.

My 9mm Doubletap has always went bang two times. It has some stout recoil and some cases like Hornady can be hard to eject. 

Edited August 8, 2016 by Patton

[AmPaTerry]

19 hours ago, Patton said:

My 9mm Doubletap has always went bang two times. It has some stout recoil and some cases like Hornady can be hard to eject. 

Hmm.  Curious.  Mine is a Cobra .22 LR, and I had the exact same problem; VERY difficult to eject.  I put a q-tip with a bit of toothpaste on it into my electric drill and worked it in and out of the chamber for just a few seconds, giving it a micro-polish, and it completely corrected the problem - casings slip out easily now.  You have to be very careful not to overdo it, of course - -
I like your piece very much -
Recoil sure is a problem.  I have a .38 double that leaves a big red patch in my palm when I fire it - I read about the .44 magnum derringers and cringe at the thought - -

[Patton]

The issue with Doubletap and certain ammo has to do with the primers being pierced by the firing pins. This leaves you unable to open the thing, but most of the time a couple of dry fires will release the firing pins. If not, I can easily pop the barrel off by pushing the takedown pin. I just had to find what ammo it likes and stick with them. I shoot mostly 124 gr HST +p in it. It's had probably a whole box of those without a single issue. It's not that the recoil is totally fierce; the shape just doesn't make it comfortable to shoot because it is the thickness of a dime. I do have a 45 Win mag derringer and full power loads exceed 44mag. It's just a different kind of recoil than the Doubletap.

I have always had a soft place in my heart for derringers of different types. My father always toted one of some sort.  

Edited August 9, 2016 by Patton

[AmPaTerry]

I liked the idea of my backup being the same caliber as my primary.
I liked the idea of NOT fooling with half-moon clips.
I like the fact that Charter Arms is American made.
I like the fact that they have a lifetime warranty.
When one reviewer said the easiest way to load it was from a loaded 9mm magazine, I figured this gun was designed for me.

Dave, I had checked every arms dealer within 50 miles, and one of them could even get this gun in for me.  I sure appreciate the heads up about Buds; I ordered it this morning, along with an ankle holster and a belt holster for it.  Shipping, tax, insurance and both holsters brought the price up to the MSRP listed on the Charter Arms site.  LGS will charge me transfer fee and background check fee.  I PREFER to purchase from my LGS, but with the effort I have put out for over a year to get this gun, I figure it is time to do something different.