red light cameras from ars technica

[Guest SUNTZU]

What is funny to is that alot of people who complain about the cameras are the first to whine about someone who runs a red light when one of us is not around.

I don't worry about people running red lights that have just changed. I was taught to wait a couple of seconds before continuing through the intersection. What I don't like about cameras is when I'm pulling a trailer load of material at 30 mph and having to slam on the breaks right at the line because the light turns yellow since it doesn't last anytime at all.

What I said about the Cedar Bluff intersection goes for the intersection at Morrell Rd. and Kingston Pike in front of West Towne. I've been going through that intersection my whole life. The yellow light is much shorter than it used to be.

Screw cameras.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV1yHrqXA88[/ame]

[strickj]

Yano, when you are accused of a crime by someone who has never met you, seen you, or otherwise attempted to positively identify you, it's a real threat to the Constitutional protections for which so many people died. Just sayin'!

Red light cameras are about revenue. Not safety. That's the thing that disgusts me the most.

1) Its not a crime,its a fine.No different then getting a parking ticket where the meter maid(or whatever the pc term is today,,,meter technician ) where you are not present.Meter maids are also not cops,much like the cameras,but at least the cameras have law enforcement over viewing the pictures.You are also not convinced of anything ether.If you feel you didn't run the light,let the judge look at the pictures.

2)Revenue is a bonus,but not the reason they are used.People running lights are dangerous,the cameras are there to help with the problem.

Like I said,dont run the light,and you wont have your "rights" violated

[Guest jackdog]

How is it not a crime?

Is It not a moving violation that gets attached to your driving record?

Where as a parking ticket is just a fine.

How is adding revenue a good thing if some communities are screwing with the yellow light timing> Is that not just ripping off the tax paying public.

I do agree that running red lights is dangerous as hell

[strickj]

No,its just a fine,like parking in a fire lane.

Yes,there are some that have had there timing changed which is an effed up way of getting more moneys.I remember the one here in Brainerd was challenged in court,and it was proven the yellow light only lasted something like 2 seconds whereas other surrounding lights lasted something like 3 seconds.

But,there is really no way to prove that the timing was actually changed though afaik.They just needed adjusting from normal wear,and tear

But like I said above,it is a way to generate money,but at the expense of those running lights.I personally dont see a problem with that.

If it doesn't help keep people from running lights,at least they'll have to pay for their reckless driving.

I do agree that running red lights is dangerous as hell

I had a guy run one near Hamilton Place Tuesday nearly T-bone me after running one.

Id been in deep doodoo had it not been for my spidey sense

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

Like I said,dont run the light,and you wont have your "rights" violated

The running of the red light has nothing to do with the ultimate disparaging of rights.

Why would you so easily forsake things that were gained at such great cost?

[Fadex]

How is it not a crime?

Is It not a moving violation that gets attached to your driving record?

Where as a parking ticket is just a fine.

How is adding revenue a good thing if some communities are screwing with the yellow light timing> Is that not just ripping off the tax paying public.

I do agree that running red lights is dangerous as hell

I don't know about other cities but in Murfreesboro it's not a crime and is not reflected on your driving record. No points, no nothing, but a nice $50 penalty (most of which goes to the operating company).

From what one of our Traffic Engineers has told me, there is a specific amount of time that the Yellow light should last. Eact intersection is different and the timing is related to the posted speed and the distance across the intersection. If the actual time is different, I think you would have a solid argument in court.

[TripleDigitRide]

A place where I worked about 3 yrs ago. In all their CDL trucks they put a computer and gps tracking we could look at anytime and see where the truck was and speed and could see how many times they stopped to pee.

That's actually very common in most of the trucking industry today.

All semi's are built with a "black box" installed from the factory. These computers record speed, RPM's, engine temp, idle time, braking, oil pressure, exhaust temp, RPM's when you shift gears, MPG's, and just about everything else you could imagine. It also records the time and date of EVERYTHING.

As far as the computers with GPS capabilities go, a vast majority of the trucking companies have been using these for quite a few years now. Not only can they track many of the things I listed above, but they can also track your location, how long you've been at that location, and all kinds of other great stuff. Qualcomm's OmniTRACS system is the most used system at this time. '85 or '86 is when they started putting these sytems in semi's.

[Guest shadow12]

You should all love this, Running a red light in Oak Ridge is no longer a moving violation, I've been a LEO for a long time, and been driving alot longer, how do you run a red light and not be moving? They changed the ordinance for the cameras we are getting. By the way, the city has asked for ten cameras, for little old Oak Ridge? It sure looks like it is strictly for the money.

[strickj]

The running of the red light has nothing to do with the ultimate disparaging of rights.

Why would you so easily forsake things that were gained at such great cost?

So you just dont want them to take pictures in public?Whats the difference of them taking pictures in public by remote means,versus them taking pics in public by a person in a cop car?

I can understand the argument of them taking pics being some kind of privacy rights thing,but this is not new,they've been doing it for years.Whats the big deal with it now?How long have cameras been in cop cars recording you.How long has the Military,and NASA been snapping pics from space.Hell,we all look at people on Google Earth,thats not some form of the disparaging of rights.Why,because now its gonna cost you in the pocket book when you run a red light,and that makes it "disparaging of rights"

Rights of privacy,you dont need no stinkin privacy.....when in public

Edited December 27, 2008 by strickj

[Guest jackdog]

running a red light is not a moving violation? well ain't that a bitch. Okay then it is just a government money scam if the timing on the lights is being screwed with. Incidentally I have never been issued a ticket for running a red light but still think this sucks.

[Guest C4Dave]

They have 2 of these cameras in Germantown. Gtown did not shorten the yellow lights, and each infraction is reviewed by a Gtown LEO. The LEO issues the ticket, and will testify in court if necessary. There hasn't been one ticket overturned yet. The cameras actually take video, so that the LEO can see if there were extenuating circumstances such as an ambulance or fire truck that needed the car to move through the intersection.

One guy tried in vain to beat the ticket by claiming that he had a very expensive violin in the car (he played for the city orchestra), and if he had slammed on his brakes it could have damaged the violin. They reviewed the video in court, and the judge determined that there was plenty of time to come to a safe, controlled stop.

I have noticed that folks don't blow through those lights anymore. And almost everyone who gets a ticket admits that they deserved it.

[Punisher84]

They have 2 of these cameras in Germantown. Gtown did not shorten the yellow lights, and each infraction is reviewed by a Gtown LEO. The LEO issues the ticket, and will testify in court if necessary. There hasn't been one ticket overturned yet. The cameras actually take video, so that the LEO can see if there were extenuating circumstances such as an ambulance or fire truck that needed the car to move through the intersection.

One guy tried in vain to beat the ticket by claiming that he had a very expensive violin in the car (he played for the city orchestra), and if he had slammed on his brakes it could have damaged the violin. They reviewed the video in court, and the judge determined that there was plenty of time to come to a safe, controlled stop.

I have noticed that folks don't blow through those lights anymore. And almost everyone who gets a ticket admits that they deserved it.

I didn't know G'town did video. I thought they had the picture snap. I've seen the flashbulb of doom go off on several people at Farmington and Germantown Road. Which oddly enough is right by the police station lol

I'm with Jack and Abominable on this one though. I've never gotten a red light ticket and I think the cameras suck. People still run them, it's not stopping anything. It's an easy way to make the budget.

[analog_kidd]

For a small town like Oak Ridge, it's a way to make money almost entirely off the backs of it's citizens. In larger towns like Knoxville, you have lots of out of towners that may be unfamiliar with the intersections. You ticket them, and it doesn't piss of the people that do the electing of the local officials.

Now, Oak Ridge has a serious problem with not being able to attract out of towners for shopping, restaurants, etc. If you live half way between Oak Ridge and another town without cameras, where you going to go? Most likely the other way, especially if you or someone you know got a ticket.

Then what I think will happen is most locals will know where the cameras are, and either avoid the intersection, or just be very careful when traveling through. So you end up will limited revenue from the cameras, and no out of town retail traffic, which means less sales tax revenue. That means raised taxes for local citizens again!

As far as running red lights, I never do it. What really concerns me though is the Yahoo in front of me that got ticketed recently, and is now gun-shy, so he slams on his brakes at a yellow, and I run into the back of him, when all along both of us could have made it safely through.

[The Average Joe]

Reminds me of something that happened about 10 years ago just outside Paris TN. Tn Highway Patrol set up one of those things on the side of the road that tell you how fast you are going. They found it riddled with bullet holes.

Toooo funny....and very tempting.

Back when G.Gordon Liddy was on 99.7FM, he read a story about intersections in a city in Delaware that had all been sniped out with a .22LR.

I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to do all of them that way.

If the government wants to create jobs, do away with robots and hire more LEOs to do the job....that they used to do....and get Big Brother off our backs.

When these things hit Nashville and Franklin, I'll probably stop driving.

I'm forever "sqeezing the lemon" (running the yellow) through an intersection.

[Guest Abominable_Hillbilly]

So you just dont want them to take pictures in public?Whats the difference of them taking pictures in public by remote means,versus them taking pics in public by a person in a cop car?

I can understand the argument of them taking pics being some kind of privacy rights thing,but this is not new,they've been doing it for years.Whats the big deal with it now?How long have cameras been in cop cars recording you.How long has the Military,and NASA been snapping pics from space.Hell,we all look at people on Google Earth,thats not some form of the disparaging of rights.Why,because now its gonna cost you in the pocket book when you run a red light,and that makes it "disparaging of rights"

Rights of privacy,you dont need no stinkin privacy.....when in public

It's not about privacy. It's about the state not properly identifying the alleged light runner and just up and sending someone a ticket in the mail. How is it that a judge can find that you owe the government fine money when the government hasn't even demonstrated that YOU committed an infraction?

FWIW, though, the government has no business running surveillance in public or compiling databases of times, locations, and registration information about the motoring public. The state is not an individual. It has no "rights" under the Constitution--such as a First Amendment right to film or photograph in public at will. Only individuals have rights. The state merely has privileges. Privileges that are granted to it by the people.

[strickj]

All right,but Ill still go back to parking tickets where no one is present.Why doesn't people complain about them?It the same thing you're complaining about.No cop present to prove a person did something,or what person did it.

Its your car,you're always in control of your car,even if you're not driving it.

If you dont want to get pics in the mail of it under a light,dont let someone drive it without your presence.

Edited December 27, 2008 by strickj

[Guest jackdog]

Simple., little miss meter made has to write the damn parking ticket. A human is involved in the process. All this big brother watching me crap is going to get a heck of a lot worse. Do you really want to see the USA go the way of england with the big brother cameras, I sure don't.

[Guest grimel]

Yano,if you dont run red lights,you have nothing to worry about!

Just saying!

Provided they haven't changed the yellow duration. Provided you don't need to run the light to avoid getting rear ended.

[Guest bkelm18]

It's not about privacy. It's about the state not properly identifying the alleged light runner and just up and sending someone a ticket in the mail. How is it that a judge can find that you owe the government fine money when the government hasn't even demonstrated that YOU committed an infraction?

FWIW, though, the government has no business running surveillance in public or compiling databases of times, locations, and registration information about the motoring public. The state is not an individual. It has no "rights" under the Constitution--such as a First Amendment right to film or photograph in public at will. Only individuals have rights. The state merely has privileges. Privileges that are granted to it by the people.

Fan of tinfoil? We can all b*tch and gripe about the cameras, but they aren't going away. You can cry about your rights, they won't listen. All you can do is like strick said, don't run the reds and give yourself plenty of room to be prepared for people to slam on their brakes. Its really not all that difficult.

[Guest bkelm18]

Simple., little miss meter made has to write the damn parking ticket. A human is involved in the process. All this big brother watching me crap is going to get a heck of a lot worse. Do you really want to see the USA go the way of england with the big brother cameras, I sure don't.

In Knoxville, as I'm sure most other places, an officer reviews each incident and then signs off on the fine. The cameras take multiple pictures as well as a nifty high resolution video of the entire thing. You can even view them yourself online. So yes, a human is involved in the process.

[Guest grimel]

You should all love this, Running a red light in Oak Ridge is no longer a moving violation, I've been a LEO for a long time, and been driving alot longer, how do you run a red light and not be moving? They changed the ordinance for the cameras we are getting. By the way, the city has asked for ten cameras, for little old Oak Ridge? It sure looks like it is strictly for the money.

I'll be among the first to get a ticket in OR. Just more ammo to get the tickets tossed. Why did OR make the change? I'm betting a moving violation has some of the $$ sent to the state/county.

I hope they put one at the Kroger light. Please oh please put one there.

[Fallguy]

Fan of tinfoil? We can all b*tch and gripe about the cameras, but they aren't going away. You can cry about your rights, they won't listen. All you can do is like strick said, don't run the reds and give yourself plenty of room to be prepared for people to slam on their brakes. Its really not all that difficult.

It's a good thing those guys that threw the tea overboard in Boston didn't say, "There's nothing we can do about it." isn't, it? Just saying...

I'm sure there were a fair share of folk that said, "Just pay the tax, it's that simple."

Although I know both situations may not rise to the same level of government oppression, they do have similarities and thought I'd give a little more food for thought.

[Guest bkelm18]

It's a good thing those guys that threw the tea overboard in Boston didn't say, "There's nothing we can do about it." isn't, it? Just saying...

I'm sure there were a fair share of folk that said, "Just pay the tax, it's that simple."

Although I know both situations may not rise to the same level of government oppression, they do have similarities and thought I'd give a little more food for thought.

A response I was expecting, but people of today are not the people of yesterday.

[Fallguy]

A response I was expecting, but people of today are not the people of yesterday.

Oh so true....

[Guest bkelm18]

Oh so true....

Unfortunately.