Non Ethanol 93 Octaine gas?

[MacGyver]

36 minutes ago, nightrunner said:

I don't know about leaded gasoline but TDOT enforces the usage of farm diesel for on road use. It's dyed so it's pretty easy to test on the side of the road.

When do they test this?  Do they do it on any regular basis?

ive always known it was dyed and that it's illegal to use it on the road, but as someone that has no ties to commercial trucking, I've always been curious about how they enforce it. 

[nightrunner]

35 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

When do they test this?  Do they do it on any regular basis?

ive always known it was dyed and that it's illegal to use it on the road, but as someone that has no ties to commercial trucking, I've always been curious about how they enforce it. 

I grew up in coffee county and it was well known that if you got on the interstate in a diesel pickup truck, there was a chance a trooper or TDOT may pull you over, usually with suspicion. Mostly guys that obviously worked on a farm or with Agricultural tags likely to use farm diesel. They just stuck a stick in your gas tank, if it came out red, you were done for.

 

I know it is done on commercial trucks, but I don't know how that's conducted. What I know of is just the guys running farm diesel on the road.

[Chucktshoes]

43 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

When do they test this?  Do they do it on any regular basis?

ive always known it was dyed and that it's illegal to use it on the road, but as someone that has no ties to commercial trucking, I've always been curious about how they enforce it. 

The risk to folks not in commercial trucking being caught using the red diesel are very low. To be honest, I don't think they are really even worried about private vehicles. 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Chucktshoes

[quietguy]

27 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

When do they test this?  Do they do it on any regular basis?

ive always known it was dyed and that it's illegal to use it on the road, but as someone that has no ties to commercial trucking, I've always been curious about how they enforce it. 

They used to check for farm diesel at livestock auctions, co-ops, etc.

[MP5_Rizzo]

18 hours ago, NextExit said:

Here's a long shot... do you know a pilot?  Get some AvGas!  100 octane, ethanol free, but it's not cheap. (about $4.75/gal)

I remember years ago when I lived in Illinois, my local Amoco station sold racing fuel (102 octane, lead) it was about 3x the price of reg unleaded but it made a world of difference in my old 65 Mercury! 

 

18 hours ago, WDG said:

Except the gas we pilots use, usually 110LL, has lead in it.... The LL stands for Low Lead... Your car will thank you....well, except for the CatConv.... 

 

Pure Gas (the app and site) are a good place to bookmark and download...

I don't mean to side track the thread but looks untaxed and dyed gas has already splintered it a little.  I remember years ago in my flying days when Avgas went north of $2.00 / gallon and it was popular to apply for a Supplemental Type Certificate (STC) so we could run $1.00 / gallon car gas in our planes.  Has ethanol gas put an end to this or have STC's been revised to still allow providing pure gas is used?

I always thought it was kind of ironic back then because us aviation guys were were looking for cheap car gas to run in our planes and the street rod and racing guys were hauling cans to the airport for their cars.

[Sam1]

6 hours ago, 2.ooohhh said:

IIRC Any fuel that hasn't had the highway fuel tax applied at time of purchase is illegal to use on public roads. I.E. AV gas, agricultural diesel, ect.

Yeah, that's why they wouldn't let anyone fill up a vehicle on-site, but they would let you fill containers.

[R1100R]

I don't remember the octane level,  but the CITGO at the corner of S. Mt Juliet Rd and Central Pike carries non ethanol gas. My BMW motorcycle requires 90 to 93. 

[gunslinger_Griff]

8 hours ago, R1100R said:

I don't remember the octane level,  but the CITGO at the corner of S. Mt Juliet Rd and Central Pike carries non ethanol gas. My BMW motorcycle requires 90 to 93. 

Your bike, especially the engine and pistons and rings, will love non ethanol gas...  One of my rides is a Duc and the Pure Gas site helped me find 93 non ethanol...  My bike loves it and I no longer have to put Ring Saver (or other) additive in there...

[peejman]

10 hours ago, R1100R said:

I don't remember the octane level,  but the CITGO at the corner of S. Mt Juliet Rd and Central Pike carries non ethanol gas. My BMW motorcycle requires 90 to 93. 

My CBR listed 91 minimum but ran just fine on 100% 87.   No knocks, no pings, I couldn't tell any difference. 

[JohnC]

On 7/31/2016 at 6:15 PM, Hershmeister said:

Just confirmed - the mapco ov saundersville ferry has 90

Mt Juliet MAPCO 93 Mapco 615-758-8642
5550 Saundersville Rd

How much per gallon there?  

[nightrunner]

2 hours ago, peejman said:

My CBR listed 91 minimum but ran just fine on 100% 87.   No knocks, no pings, I couldn't tell any difference. 

Most newer engines with an ECU have KR(knock retard) built in. If you get knock, whether it's due to fuel to something else, it pulls timing until there is no knock. It would be low on power but otherwise ok. Don't know how much power would be lost, might be barely noticeable or not at all. A CBR isn't exactly low on power to start with though.

[gunslinger_Griff]

Just now, nightrunner said:

Most newer engines with an ECU have KR(knock retard) built in. If you get knock, whether it's due to fuel to something else, it pulls timing until there is no knock. It would be low on power but otherwise ok. Don't know how much power would be lost, might be barely noticeable or not at all. A CBR isn't exactly low on power to start with though.

Yup... 100%.. you lost a bit of power... as a guy who had a 1100XX and a 954RR, Honda makes a great sportbike... although their motorcycle division has been a bit soul-less this past decade... but that's another subject..   Just like getting higher octane than your manufacturer recommends "isn't taking extra good care" of your vehicle nor adding power... 

Octane aside, it's the ethanol (in any octane) that's making a long term adverse impact on all of our vehicles...  If you want to keep anything long term, consider feeding non ethanol gas.. 

 

 

 

[bersaguy]

I went through this back in 1998 with my new Skeeter Bass boat. I had always used 93 octane fuel in all my boats for many years. When I bought my new Skeeter with the Yamaha outboard on her I was burning 93 octane for about the first year. One day I got an opportunity to sit sown and speak with a rep from Yamaha USA. I was asking him a few questions and we got off on the discussion of fuels and I told him I was running 93 in mine and he told me I was wasting my money. He asked me if I had tried the 87 octane and I said no. He said my Yamaha would give me the same performance and actually inprove my fuel miliage with 87 as I was getting from 93. Well, I decided one day to see if the guy was right. I ran the Skeeter down to running on fumes and then filled it up with 97 octane.

Next trip out the hole shot was just as good and aceleration was same. I made a long run I had made a 100 times to check fuel miliage. I went from Bull Creek in Gallatin to Second Creek in Lebanon on Cumberland River and back pretty much WOT. That trip would normally put the boat on fumes when it went back on the trailer. That day when I put the boat on the trailer I still had 1/4 tank of fuel. Filled the boat up on way home and it cost almost 12.00 bucks less to fill it up. I call that rep and told him he was right about the 87 and asked him ow that was able to happen. He said that back in 1993 Yamaha began building their motors to give peak performance on 87 octane fuels and all of their electronics and onboard computer was programmed to making timing adjustments accordingly to run 87.

My Son in law is using boat more than me these days and he is also running 87. The automobile industry is doing the same thing with their new vehicles. They are all programmed for 87 octane fuels.

[Hershmeister]

How much per gallon there?  

Dont know - i just called and asked if they had it

[nightrunner]

19 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

The automobile industry is doing the same thing with their new vehicles. They are all programmed for 87 octane fuels.

Not all. The high performance engines(high compression or boosted/turbo/supercharged) require the high octane, and it usually says it is required.

[willis68]

14 hours ago, R1100R said:

I don't remember the octane level,  but the CITGO at the corner of S. Mt Juliet Rd and Central Pike carries non ethanol gas. My BMW motorcycle requires 90 to 93. 

I'm going to ride my bike up there to see, CITGO is one of the few brands along with Shell BP and Exxon that I prefer 

[gunslinger_Griff]

Not to start a flaming war here... cripe.. might as well start a "which oil / caliber / candidate / religion" is better thread... but nearly all gas comes from the same refineries and pipelines...  That's why most of the delivery trucks are independent... and that's why toy see nearly all branded trucks at all the refineries...  Gas would be insanely expensive if everyone truly had their own wells/refineries/tankers/trucks...  The only real difference is the branding (form over function) and the additives they put in (not that is real and makes a difference)...   The reason I share that?  I am not sure non-ethanol gas has the same additives you like with your current favorite stations... 

[2.ooohhh]

1 hour ago, nightrunner said:

Not all. The high performance engines(high compression or boosted/turbo/supercharged) require the high octane, and it usually says it is required.

^This. It is NOT ok to run low octane fuel in all vehicles. Some manufacturers are absolutely serious about the need to run 93 octane or higher. Run 87 in some of the cars I was toying with this weekend and you be looking at a new $50K engine after the detonation under boost trashed the pistons. 

 

 

[willis68]

1 hour ago, WDG said:

Not to start a flaming war here... cripe.. might as well start a "which oil / caliber / candidate / religion" is better thread... but nearly all gas comes from the same refineries and pipelines...  That's why most of the delivery trucks are independent... and that's why toy see nearly all branded trucks at all the refineries...  Gas would be insanely expensive if everyone truly had their own wells/refineries/tankers/trucks...  The only real difference is the branding (form over function) and the additives they put in (not that is real and makes a difference)...   The reason I share that?  I am not sure non-ethanol gas has the same additives you like with your current favorite stations... 

You are correct, the additives Detergents and ETC are the difference Shell uses the best that is one of the reasons that Ferrari only uses their gasoline, I have worked in the oil field for nearly 20 years now and have done my share of work for nearly every oil company in the world, I personally like Shell as I have enjoyed working for them and visited their corporate office in Holland and saw first hand where perfomace   Super car manufacturers such as Ferrari exclusively use their pump gas 

 

I have a 2014 Shelby if I run less than 91 Octaine in it it clearly states my warranty is voided, I also have a 2014 Harley Davidson with the same policy,

 

 

 

 

[peejman]

4 hours ago, nightrunner said:

Most newer engines with an ECU have KR(knock retard) built in. If you get knock, whether it's due to fuel to something else, it pulls timing until there is no knock. It would be low on power but otherwise ok. Don't know how much power would be lost, might be barely noticeable or not at all. A CBR isn't exactly low on power to start with though.

It was carbureted so no knock sensors and hence the need for 100% gas regardless of octane. I spent 3 years and half the value of the bike fixing damage to the fuel system caused by ethanol. 

The fuel system in anything less than 10 years old was likely designed with E10 fuel in mind, so using it won't cause the corrosion and seal degradation that's common in older stuff.  

If the compression ratio in a naturally aspirated engine with aluminum heads and EFI is less than 10:1, 87 octane is fine. Things like direct injection and boost change the game. 

[Sam1]

3 hours ago, nightrunner said:

Not all. The high performance engines(high compression or boosted/turbo/supercharged) require the high octane, and it usually says it is required.

A lot of the boosted engines from 10 years ago to now  have two maps, the kr detection will actually switch maps on the pcm to make sure some dummy doesn't blow the engine.  On my old cobalt if you hit boost with 87 octane it would pull 25% of power, go into protective mode and open the bypass valve so you couldn't make boost.  When the supercharger was swapped for a turbo, there was no pcm controlled bypass so all it could do was pull timing, and you better have a minimum of 93 octane running 26 psi or kablooey with no warning.

[bersaguy]

7 hours ago, nightrunner said:

Not all. The high performance engines(high compression or boosted/turbo/supercharged) require the high octane, and it usually says it is required.

You are correct but I was referring to the standard family edition Soccer Mom mini vans and such as that. The new hot rods I would imagine do require hotter fuels. As far as fuels go back when I was a youngster and driving a real hot rod muscle car which was a 65 Dodge Coronet 426 Hemi I only ran Super Shell 95 octane gas with additive Shell called Platformate(spel?) Anything else would give the Hemi Valve clatter and pinging.

[Sam1]

octane level doesn't actually make the fuel burn hotter or cooler, nor does it make it burn faster or slower (contrary to popular belief).  It only changes the ignition point (if all other factors are the same).  the majority of heat comes from the actual a/f ratio (also takes into consideration density and composition of the fuel).

simple example of this is alcohol in a race car, normally alcohol used in super late models/modifieds run around 110 octane and they have no radiator on the cars, they never get hot enough to need it.  that same car using a 110 octane race fuel will require a radiator and fan to keep the engine cool.

[willis68]

Pure gas station Wilson St in Lebanon,  they have 93 Octaine Ethnalol free, My Harley Davisdon loves it!

[Dustbuster]

go to signature flight services at bna or your airport and get some 100LL your engine will really love you!!


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