Obama goes after gunsmithing

[Hershmeister]

Making stocks now requires $2250 ITAR registration and more Bs

State Dpt "guidance"

http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/Applicability%20of%20the%20ITAR%20Registration%20Requirement%20to%20Firearms%20Manufacturers%20(Publish).pdf

[shotgunshooter]

A ####### stock? I would said you're kidding me but I think we are all used to this BS. By the way posted link gave me a 404 error

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[Oh Shoot]

1 minute ago, shotgunshooter said:

A ####### stock? I would said you're kidding me but I think we are all used to this BS. By the way posted link gave me a 404 error

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end of URL wasn't linked:

http://pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/Applicability of the ITAR Registration Requirement to Firearms Manufacturers (Publish).pdf

- OS

 

[btq96r]

Quote

Persons who do not actually manufacture ITAR-controlled firearms (including by engaging in the activities described below, which DDTC has found in specific cases to constitute manufacturing) need not register with DDTC– even if they have an FFL from ATF.

The list under section 1 is pretty much your everyday gun repair stuff.  As long as there is no "drilling, cutting, or machining," this won't be a thing for someone.

I'm not seeing the real limitations on this.

[Omega]

So can you thread your own barrel?  Or is it restricted only if you do it for pay? 80% receivers? Form 1 suppressors?   Are there any new restrictions or has this mostly been in place for some time?  

Edited July 29, 2016 by Omega
Auto mis-correct

[quietguy]

9 minutes ago, btq96r said:

The list under section 1 is pretty much your everyday gun repair stuff.  As long as there is no "drilling, cutting, or machining," this won't be a thing for someone.

I'm not seeing the real limitations on this.

I disagree.  The way the language is constructed is way too broad.  Lapping an upper would be an violation of both the language to increase accuracy and machining.  Installing most replacement sights would violate the language, and forget about a trigger job.  

[btq96r]

2 minutes ago, quietguy said:

I disagree.  The way the language is constructed is way too broad.  Lapping an upper would be an violation of both the language to increase accuracy and machining.  Installing most replacement sights would violate the language, and forget about a trigger job.  

I'm not familiar enough with lapping to offer an opinion, but installing replacement sights would fall under part 1-e, and/or 1-g.  Triggers would be good to go unless it involves cutting, drilling, and manufacturing, and meets the definition of replacement parts discussed in 1-b.  If someone makes a trigger, then they fall under this. 

The biggest thing I can see is that this is meant to bring those homegrown gun makers and shops that do things like drilling and cutting barrels under the fold with traditional businesses.

[quietguy]

26 minutes ago, btq96r said:

I'm not familiar enough with lapping to offer an opinion, but installing replacement sights would fall under part 1-e, and/or 1-g.  Triggers would be good to go unless it involves cutting, drilling, and manufacturing, and meets the definition of replacement parts discussed in 1-b.  If someone makes a trigger, then they fall under this. 

Machining is the operative term used.  

I have replaced dozens of handgun sights, and nearly all require some filing for a proper installation.  That is machining.  1g might cover that, but it isn't clear. 

I would agree if you are doing a drop in trigger insert, but a "fluff and buff" of existing parts could be considered machining.  

[nightrunner]

1 hour ago, Omega said:

80% receivers? Form 1 suppressors?

This is what I'm betting the intent is. To eliminate unregistered guns and those built from parts kits. Also, cheap NFA regulated items.

 

Edited to add after reading the article myself in its entirety:

Systemized production of ammo ( including automated loading or reloading) vs manual loading and reloading. Does this mean turret and progressive presses are subject to this now?

It says machining new dovetails or drilling and tapping for scope mounts is OK.

 

Main thing I see though that is a problem is, it says drop in parts are ok UNLESS it improves the accuracy, caliber or other aspects of operation. Does that mean an upper swap for an AR is no longer ok? How about conversion barrels for Glocks etc? Probably means no more putting an arm brace on an AR pistol that didn't come with one. Could be argued that that changes the operation.

 

Edited July 29, 2016 by nightrunner

[Hershmeister]

Registration for the "production of firearm parts" is a complete over reach and will eliminate the creative entrepreneurs who make up so much of the gun world.

Want to produce a new trigger design? Pay $2250 every year. Want to make custom gun stocks? Pay $2250. Want to make a grip? $2250.

What is not a firearm part?





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[seez52]

the beginning your "common sense gun laws"

[nightrunner]

Is this effective immediately or when does it take effect?

[quietguy]

43 minutes ago, nightrunner said:

This is what I'm betting the intent is. To eliminate unregistered guns and those built from parts kits. Also, cheap NFA regulated items.

Intent is the problem with EO's.  At least with legislative actions, you have committee hearings and floor debate to determine intent.  You don't get that with EO's.  All the courts have to go on is the language of the order and the agencies regulation.  

Edited July 29, 2016 by quietguy

[btq96r]

5 minutes ago, Hershmeister said:

Registration for the "production of firearm parts" is a complete over reach and will eliminate the creative entrepreneurs who make up so much of the gun world.

Not just the entrepreneurs, but a lot of those homeshop folks I mentioned a bit earlier.

@173rdABN is the perfect example of this.  He's running his small business gun shop out of his house, and this seems specific to bring folks like him in line with the bigger manufacturer companies.  Never mind that he has no deigns to make any weapons for exporting, or try to get into a foreign arms sales package, the things ITAR is meant to put a control mechanism on.  The ability of someone to save up enough to have some hardware that lets them run a business set up in their garage seems to be the new threat on the radar here.

[Omega]

Next we will need an FFL and ITAR registration to own lathes, files and sandpaper.  Me thinks TN's law AKA Tennessee Firearms Freedom Act, will soon have it's first challenge. 

[Randall53]

If Obama is involved you can BYSA it's not anything good.

[JohnC]

We need a lawyer to read this and tell us for sure if it effects those of us who build and modify our own guns. 

[gregintenn]

In my country, the directorate of defense trade controls doesn't have the authority to make law, (congress does), nor do they have the authority to interpret law (the judicial branch does), so this means nothing to me.

[Hershmeister]

We need a lawyer to read this and tell us for sure if it effects those of us who build and modify our own guns. 

No lawyer needed for that. You are not selling them commercially- which is what this applies to - businesses

[Hershmeister]

PS: this is "guidance" which until challenged will be used as force of law...guess whats cheaper? $2250 itar fee or going to court?

[Omega]

51 minutes ago, Hershmeister said:

PS: this is "guidance" which until challenged will be used as force of law...guess whats cheaper? $2250 itar fee or going to court?

In the long run probably the lawyers.  That's $2,250.00 initially and the same every year, for now anyway.  So if you need to register for say five years, that's $11,250 even though you have no plans to export anything.  If you challenge the law, and make it a class action lawsuit then the lawyer fee can be spread out and or maybe some of these pro 2A organizations can also join in.

[gjohnsoniv]

Wow, what a load.

[A.J. Holst]

Other than revenue generation to pay for the salaries of the people they have to hire to administer and enforce the new regs, what will be accomplished?

Unless these home builders are currently illegally selling and exporting.

[Hershmeister]

Other than revenue generation to pay for the salaries of the people they have to hire to administer and enforce the new regs, what will be accomplished?

Unless these home builders are currently illegally selling and exporting.

What will be accomplished is four things:

1) eliminate small businesses in the gun industry and criminalize what were otherwise lawful businesses

2) this in turn helps big businesses already in the gun biz where $2k is an irrelevant expense

3) ultimately reduce creativity and innovation

4) give obama and the dems a talking point that he has "done something" about guns

[A.J. Holst]

2 minutes ago, Hershmeister said:

 

What will be accomplished is four things:

1) eliminate small businesses in the gun industry and criminalize what were otherwise lawful businesses

2) this in turn helps big businesses already in the gun biz where $2k is an irrelevant expense

3) ultimately reduce creativity and innovation

4) give obama and the dems a talking point that he has "done something" about guns

 

You mean gun control laws (or any intrusive .gov regulation) can adversely impact the economy?

Why do you confuse the issues with facts, logic and critical thinking?