Kasich says hands tied as Cleveland police union seeks open-carry ban for convention

[The Legion]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/17/kasich-says-hands-tied-as-cleveland-police-union-seeks-open-carry-ban-for-convention.html

Published July 17, 2016

FoxNews.com

Ohio Gov. John Kasich’s office rebuffed a call Sunday from the Cleveland police union to ban the open carry of firearms during the Republican National Convention, in the wake of the deadly shooting of police officers in Baton Rouge.

FOX 8 reported earlier that Steve Loomis, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, is asking Kasich to prohibit open carry this week in Cuyahoga County, which surrounds Cleveland. 

A spokeswoman, though, indicated the governor’s hands are tied when it comes to unilaterally changing a state law like open carry. 

"Law enforcement is a noble, essential calling and we all grieve that we've again seen attacks on officers. Ohio governors do not have the power to arbitrarily suspend federal and state constitutional rights or state laws as suggested,” Kasich spokeswoman Emmalee Kalmbach said. “The bonds between our communities and police must be reset and rebuilt -- as we're doing in Ohio -- so our communities and officers can both be safe. Everyone has an important role to play in that renewal."

The shooting in Baton Rouge – in which at least three officers were killed – is the latest police tragedy to heighten concerns about security and clashes at the GOP convention, which starts Monday.

According to USA Today, Loomis said the open-carry law has made security far more difficult for the convention.

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"Somebody's got to do something,” Loomis reportedly said Sunday. "What we have now is completely irresponsible."

City leaders have voiced confidence about their ability to secure the site.

Police Chief Calvin Williams said Sunday that they’ve had protests every day for eight days and all have been peaceful.

"We've not really had any problems to speak of,” he said.

As for the open-carry law, he said he has briefed officers who may not be familiar with the state’s law. He said he wants to "make sure officers are not taken aback when they see that activity” and know how to respond.

Williams said he also is briefing officers on the responsibilities someone must maintain when exercising their open-carry rights, saying people have to handle their guns in a "safe manner" and should not "menace people or threaten people" with their weapon.

As for the convention itself, he said, "It's game time and we're ready for it." Williams said they have "hundreds of agencies and thousands of officers" working to keep people safe. 

[DaveTN]

As I said in the other thread, with hundreds of Officers from outside agency’s that local Police don’t know on sight, and the two shootings in Dallas and Baton Rouge; we have a potential for the perfect storm.

This situation requires training on both sides. It requires the cops be trained not to shoot innocent people carrying guns, and it requires the citizens carrying guns to be trained on how to not get shot by a cop.

City leaders have said they have it under control; We shall see how it goes.

Edited July 17, 2016 by DaveTN

[btq96r]

Open Carry/2nd Amendment is just the low hanging fruit.  I wonder how many other laws and rights they'd like to see curbed.  I'm sure we'll see some out of sight, out of mind "free-speech zones" to take care of the 1st Amendment and it's pesky guarantees of free speech and peaceable assembly to petition.  They probably wish the 4th Amendment wasn't around either so they could stop, frisk, and check the bags of anyone in and around downtown Cleveland. 

Of course, it would only be temporary and never extended to full time under the guise of some continuing emergency.  Not without some Orwellian sounding name like PATRIOT Act...oh, wait.

Edited July 17, 2016 by btq96r

[DaveTN]

4 minutes ago, btq96r said:

Open Carry/2nd Amendment is just the low hanging fruit.  I wonder how many other laws and rights they'd like to see curbed.  I'm sure we'll see some out of sight, out of mind "free-speech zones" to take care of that inconvenience.  They probably wish the 4th Amendment wasn't around either so they could stop, frisk, and check the bags of anyone in and around downtown Cleveland. 

Of course, it would only be temporary and never extended to full time under the guise of some continuing emergency.  Not without some Orwellian sounding name like PATRIOT Act...oh, wait.

Emotions are running high right now on all sides.

 If you think “they” want to curb open carry don’t you think they would get that done?

They ask the Governor and he said “no”. So that’s the end of it unless the state legislature decides to take up the issue at a later date.

[btq96r]

7 minutes ago, DaveTN said:

 If you think “they” want to curb open carry don’t you think they would get that done?

"They" in this case is the police union.  So, it's not the usual crowd trying to tell us that open carry is a public danger.  I don't say that to advocate an anti-police position, but I do think that they are susceptible to the "government knows best" mindset. Especially as the local PD are the ones in charge of the outer zones, most likely to see incidents, people will be looking to them if anything bad happens.  But still, screw them for thinking there should be an exception to state law.

As to it getting done, or not...I'm honestly not sure.  One open carry asshat making a scene that gets recorded could change things easily enough.  I'm glad Gov. Kasich is holding the line thus far.  Laws aren't suggestions or only applicable in the good times.  We'll see if it holds through for the entire convention.

Edited July 17, 2016 by btq96r

[DaveTN]

9 minutes ago, btq96r said:

"They" in this case is the police union.  So, it's not the usual crowd trying to tell us that open carry is a public danger.  I don't say that to advocate an anti-police position, but I do think that they are susceptible to the "government knows best" mindset. Especially as the local PD are the ones in charge of the outer zones, most likely to see incidents, people will be looking to them if anything bad happens.  But still, screw them for thinking there should be an exception to state law.

As to it getting done, or not...I'm honestly not sure.  One open carry asshat making a scene that gets recorded could change things easily enough.  I'm glad Gov. Kasich is holding the line thus far.  Laws aren't suggestions or only applicable in the good times.  We'll see if it holds through for the entire convention.

I don’t know whether the cops support open carry in Ohio or not; I would guess their rank and file is no different than anywhere else and they support it. I heard the head of the union calling for the ban on carry this morning; he was very emotional over the shooting of the Officers in Baton Rouge. I don’t know that he was speaking for the majority of cops.

As far as Kasich holding the line I don’t know that he made any choices. I’m not sure he could do what that Officer was asking even if he wanted to without declaring some type of martial law.

[btq96r]

Just now, DaveTN said:

I don’t know whether the cops support open carry in Ohio or not; I would guess their rank and file is no different than anywhere else and they support it. I heard the head of the union calling for the ban on carry this morning; he was very emotional over the shooting of the Officers in Baton Rouge. I don’t know that he was speaking for the majority of cops.

As far as Kasich holding the line I don’t know that he made any choices. I’m not sure he could do what that Officer was asking even if he wanted to without declaring some type of martial law.

I look at the police unions as a barometer of the department they represent.  If they truly were against the grain of the officers on the street, then their tenure as speaking for the wishes of the officers would be in jeopardy.  While I realize the flash to bang on that isn't instant, no position as inherently political as union leadership tends to take a position absent a feeling of support, at least from key personnel.

The Ohio General Assembly could be called into emergency session to produce a one page suspension of open carry riki tik for the governors signature.  Or they could just let the feds take over overall command, and have Secret Service rules extend past the inner perimeter.

[Hershmeister]

The infamous cry of "someone has to do something"

[Dane]

I think it would take more than the General Assembly here to suspend something that is in Ohio's constitution. Open carry has been a basic right here since 1851.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[bersaguy]

I have a bad feeling that the headlines are not going to be what is going on inside the Convention Center but what is going on out side. They say they have enough police but do they have enough Ambulances, Paramedics and Emergency room beds available.    I hope I'm wrong but I think they might need at least 5 MASH units put on site with military doctors that know how to treat bullet wounds..........JMHO

[crossfire]

1 hour ago, bersaguy said:

I have a bad feeling that the headlines are not going to be what is going on inside the Convention Center but what is going on out side.

And that has been the lefts plan all along.

Edited July 18, 2016 by crossfire

[Oh Shoot]

6 minutes ago, crossfire said:

And that has been the lefts plan all along.

Odd, this Mericun history thang. The leftists concentrated in the streets of Chicago for the '68 Democratic Convention.

- OS

[crossfire]

11 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

Odd, this Mericun history thang. The leftists concentrated in the streets of Chicago for the '68 Democratic Convention.

- OS

You got that right.

"We learn from history, that we learn nothing from history". George Bernard Shaw 

Edited July 18, 2016 by crossfire

[dawgdoc]

I agree with btq96r that if "they" really wanted to eliminate open carry, they would have the Secret Service extend the National Special Security Event boundaries as far as they need to.  I'm pretty sure that is what they did along the entire parade route for the Pope--they turned long stretches of otherwise public roads into cordoned security zones that excluded all manner of things, including guns.

[Scorpion Equalizer]

I'm pretty sure the George Soros rebel rousers will make sure the SHTF this week, and the divider-in-chief will call for more gun control. And people will go buy more guns and ammo.

[Grayfox54]

I'm all for exercising one's legal and constitutional rights. But they must be tempered with some common sense. While it is legal, there's no way that I would go anywhere near that convention with a firearm. In fact, I wouldn't  go near the place period. 

While the Republicans see this as their big show, The democrats, liberals, leftist, antis and everybody else with a grudge sees this as an opportunity to stir up trouble. So a bunch of well intention-ed gun owners show up open carrying as a demonstration of supporting their rights. The troublemakers are going to target them right off. They will attempt to provoke a confrontation and IF that happens, even if no firearms come into play, who do you think the liberal media will blame? 

If cool heads and common sense prevail, this could be gun owner"s finest hour. But the potential for disaster is far too great to take chances with. I, for one, pray that the people of Cleveland show the courage and restraint to just not give them the opportunity. 

[crossfire]

8 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

I'm all for exercising one's legal and constitutional rights. But they must be tempered with some common sense. While it is legal, there's no way that I would go anywhere near that convention with a firearm. In fact, I wouldn't  go near the place period. 

While the Republicans see this as their big show, The democrats, liberals, leftist, antis and everybody else with a grudge sees this as an opportunity to stir up trouble. So a bunch of well intention-ed gun owners show up open carrying as a demonstration of supporting their rights. The troublemakers are going to target them right off. They will attempt to provoke a confrontation and IF that happens, even if no firearms come into play, who do you think the liberal media will blame? 

If cool heads and common sense prevail, this could be gun owner"s finest hour. But the potential for disaster is far too great to take chances with. I, for one, pray that the people of Cleveland show the courage and restraint to just not give them the opportunity. 

I'm sure "COMMON SENSE" will be in short supply in Cleveland.

[Grayfox54]

I'm sure "COMMON SENSE" will be in short supply in Cleveland.

That is exactly what I'm afraid of. I got a real bad feeling about this. I fear its gonna make the Dems in '68 look like a walk in the park. 

[Oh Shoot]

2 hours ago, Grayfox54 said:

 

 

That is exactly what I'm afraid of. I got a real bad feeling about this. I fear its gonna make the Dems in '68 look like a walk in the park. 

PA has open carry also, but whatcha bet that one way or the other at the Dem Convention there won't be a gun allowed within a mile of the event?

- OS

[btq96r]

2 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

PA has open carry also, but whatcha bet that one way or the other at the Dem Convention there won't be a gun allowed within a mile of the event?

- OS

PA law already has a carve out exemption that nixes open carry in Philadelphia.

http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/open-carry/

[Oh Shoot]

2 hours ago, btq96r said:

PA law already has a carve out exemption that nixes open carry in Philadelphia.

http://www.pafoa.org/law/carrying-firearms/open-carry/

Well, can still open carry --  that's the visible part that's the issue, permit or not. At least as far as the news wants to gin up. They'd do it if either convention were in Nashville or any other place where you can open carry in any guise, with the present tone that's going on.

- OS

Edited July 18, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[300winmag]

From what I understand, you can open carry WITH a license in Philadelphia.

 

I'm guessing at both conventions that the protestors are far away from the actual convention meeting.  You can't ban carry in a whole city because of an event at one location.

[docachna]

On 7/17/2016 at 6:05 PM, Dane said:

I think it would take more than the General Assembly here to suspend something that is in Ohio's constitution. Open carry has been a basic right here since 1851.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

Precisely. There's no "law" to suspend. Open carry is legal under the Ohio Constitution. It is not banned or controlled (except where you may not take ANY firearm - police station, jail, gubmint buildings, etc.). "That which is not illegal is therefore legal".
 

 

[TrickyNicky]

So with the convention under way, how did things shake out? 

[M1_Garand]

15 hours ago, TrickyNicky said:

So with the convention under way, how did things shake out? 

I haven't heard any news reports of violence / shootings / streets running red with blood so far. Hopefully it stays that way and shuts up the bed wetters.

Edited July 20, 2016 by M1_Garand