Pay pal

[Paletiger13]

I am not using pay pal period. is there another form of yearly membership i can do? Thanks

[Oh Shoot]

I am not using pay pal period. is there another form of yearly membership i can do? Thanks

I can't believe all this PP paranoia.

Send me a check and I'll PayPal your membership to TGO.

- OS

[Paletiger13]

Im not paranoid about pay pal, I just dont want someone anti-2nd touching any of my funds.

[Smith]

Im not paranoid about pay pal, I just dont want someone anti-2nd touching any of my funds.

I get that, but for me I like knowing that they are supporting MY 2a rights ever time I use them for gun and gun related purchases!

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I am not using pay pal period. is there another form of yearly membership i can do? Thanks

You don't even need to have a PP account to use them. It's no different than using your credit card online to buy <insert gun item here> from <insert online vendor here>.

OS's hit the nail on the head, it's paranoia. I've been using PP since 2003 according to my business account through them. I've sent over $3,200 at one point in time during a transaction, but have received $800-$1,200 as the greatest amount at any one time (probably sent/received money in the $10k+ range overall). I've even got the PP business account tied to one of my banking accounts, so I can bounce money to and from. Oh! The horror!

My point... they may be anti-gun to an extent (they've actually gotten better over the years), but I've had absolutely zero problems with them. No compromised account, no charge backs, no frozen funds/account, etc.

Back to my point, though... you don't need to have a PP account. You can simply quick the TGO link, use your credit card, and you're done. Unless you think TGO is going to scam you (please ignore the diverted funds into my account, and the extra charges), you have nothing to worry about.

[Oh Shoot]

Yeah, I've probably done $50K through PP since 2000, was using them before eBay bought them, before their competing BillPoint failed.

I don't like the "anti-gun" part either, but it's definitely more a liability/legal decision on eBay's part than a political/2nd amendment statement.

One big reason is that eBay is based in Kalifornia, and they have to really be careful to obey their state laws in addition to federal laws.

I don't take it personally ... it's just biz.

- OS

[JeffsSig]

I will chime in. Paypal is safer than handing your CC to waiter to go back to the register to run the card. ( think about it)

The main problem with Paypal is a lot of scams have started with people opening emails that are not from Paypal ( But look like it) and that have fake login urls that give the BG your login and password.

Paypal will NEVER send you a email unless it starts with your name as registered with them. They will never start Dear Customer , Dear Member, or something like that. Then on top of that if they do send you a email and you think it from them then just CALL don’t reply.

[Oh Shoot]

You don't even need to have a PP account to use them. It's no different than using your credit card online to buy <insert gun item here> from <insert online vendor here>. ..

Well, technically, I think you actually do create a "PayPal account" the first time you use your cc through them. But you don't have to become "verified", at least not right off. Last time I pored through the rules, they had a limit you could do with unverified accounts, something like 5 grand, best I disremember.

I don't keep up with all that, since I've always had a business account with them, the rules being somewhat different as opposed to individual account.

- OS

[Reservoir Dog]

I have used PP many times for gun related charges, and never had a problem. I even know one company that sells firearms parts and accessories that uses PP to process all of their credit card charges.

I completely understand that people don't like PP because of their anti-gun policies, but unfortunately there is currently no real alternative. There was one gun-friendly company, GearPay (https://www.gearpay.com/), but it looks like it never got off the ground. They have been in their "major site upgrade" for over a year now.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I will chime in. Paypal is safer than handing your CC to waiter to go back to the register to run the card. ( think about it)

+1

The main problem with Paypal is a lot of scams have started with people opening emails that are not from Paypal ( But look like it) and that have fake login urls that give the BG your login and password.

Paypal will NEVER send you a email unless it starts with your name as registered with them. They will never start Dear Customer , Dear Member, or something like that. Then on top of that if they do send you a email and you think it from them then just CALL don’t reply.

I agree. Most are obvious scams though. Look at the links, email address sent from, etc. As with anything regarding money, common sense and awareness is paramount. Like you said, if you do happen to think an email is legit, don't follow the links. Go to PayPal (type it out in another browser window) and login... or call them. If it's truly an issue, it will be obvious upon logging in.

But, I totally agree... PayPal is safer than a lot of other methods people use and never think twice about.

[Oh Shoot]

I have used PP many times for gun related charges, and never had a problem. I even know one company that sells firearms parts and accessories that uses PP to process all of their credit card charges...

Yeah, just depends on exactly what they are...policy pretty much the same as prohibited items list on eBay...

Folks, ya gotta remember that eBay/PayPal is a publicly traded company, and they'll do everything they can to enhance revenue. If they thought they could get away with processing funds for Columbian drug cartels, they would in a heartbeat. The firearms thing is far from a political, or even moral, stance.

Right now, since they lost a lot of buyers due to various policies, they've hammered sellers with some fairly onerous policies. In fairness, it has weeded out some bad ones, but also flogs many of the good ones.

PayPal in particular is pretty much unique. It's not a bank, but functions like one. Not an investment firm, but they will pay you Money Market dividends, etc. They've come under mucho scrutiny, been sued a bunch, lost some, won some. For example, they can no longer grab funds from your bank account for any reason, or freeze it, they lost that one a good long time ago, and paid beau coup recompense to a lot of folks, too. So the bank account part of the verification process is really just more to hedge their bets that you are indeed a legit entity that won't defraud THEM.

And so forth...

- OS

[Guest Spuds]

January 23, 2006, I get this from payscum:

Subject: Notification of Limited Account Access

Dear Xxxxx Xxxxxx,

The PayPal User Agreement states that PayPal, at its sole discretion,

reserves the right to close an account for any violation of the User

Agreement, including the Acceptable Use Policy. Under the Acceptable Use

Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or receive payments for any firearm,

in addition to certain firearm parts and accessories, ammunition,

destructive devices, militaria and ordnance, weapons, and knives. The

complete Acceptable Use Policy addressing Firearms, Weapons, and Knives can

be found at the following URL:

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=weapons

We are hereby notifying you that, after a recent review of your account

activity, it has been determined that you are in violation of PayPal's

Acceptable Use Policy. Therefore, your account has been closed.

When PayPal closes an account due to an Acceptable Use Policy violation, it

is the company's policy to hold the funds for a period of 180 days. Once

the 180-day timeframe has elapsed, PayPal will release any remaining

balance either via bank transfer or issuance of a check. Please log in to

your PayPal account and verify that your account information is accurate,

as PayPal cannot be held responsible for incorrect information provided by

the account holder.

You will need to remove all references to PayPal from your website(s)

and/or auction(s). This includes not only removing PayPal as a payment

option, but also the PayPal logo and/or shopping cart. We thank you in

advance for your cooperation. If you have any questions, please contact

the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department at aup@paypal.com.

Sincerely,

PayPal Acceptable Use Policy Department PayPal, an eBay Company

PayPal Email ID PP522

Huh? My rating with payscum was perfect, close to 300 IIRC, and I had 100% perfect feedback on on ebay & gunbroker, the two venues where I sold. How could this virtue of the banking world do this? I asked them, and this is what I received:

The transaction which limited your account was on January 10 in the amount

of $25.39 for the sale of a ruger magazine which holds 11 rounds.

The PayPal User Agreement states that PayPal, at its sole discretion,

reserves the right to close an account for any violation of the User

Agreement, including the Acceptable Use Policy. Under the Acceptable Use

Policy, PayPal may not be used to send or receive payments for any firearm,

in addition to certain firearm parts and accessories, ammunition,

destructive devices, militaria and ordnance, weapons, and knives. The

complete Acceptable Use Policy addressing Firearms, Weapons, and Knives can

be found at the following URL:

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=weapons

We are hereby notifying you that, after a recent review of your account

activity, it has been determined that you are in violation of PayPal's

Acceptable Use Policy. Therefore, your account has been closed.

So, despite perfect ratings everywhere, they closed my account because I unknowingly violated their AUP by selling an 11 round .40 cal Ruger OEM magazine on gunbroker. Well what about the $396 balance I had with them? No problem getting that back, right?

Wrong! payscum states they'll be keeping it for 180 days. Most of the action from this point was via telephone, so I don't have an email record, but if you think those folks are SAFE, think AGAIN!

They steal folks money to make up for all the fraud that goes on with folks ripping them off. My complaint is chicken feed compared to the guy who had 6 figures stolen that he'd collected for the American Red Cross for Hurricane Katrina victims. After getting caught red handed on that deal, payscum tried to negotiate a settlement with the guy, donating the money to the United Way instead of the intended recipient, the Red Cross. Get it?? Yeah, we stole your money, but it's ok, we'll give it to the united way. Is that ok with you? It wasn't, and the guy successfully sued the kaka out of them.

My ordeal was resolved in the sense that I got my money within 48 hours. I think it was more or less because I immediately challenged their licensure as a Money Transfer Agent with the Dept. of Commerce and Insurance in Nashville.

So use payscum if you want. Just don't ever tell folks how safe it is. And if what happened to me is paranoia, then I'm in the wrong universe.

[JeffsSig]

Sorry to hear you had a problem Spuds.

I still stand on the fact that are AS safe as anything else out there.

One just has to know and play by thier rules is all.

Your case in point wasnt a matter of being safe as much as not know thier rules.

[Oh Shoot]

So, despite perfect ratings everywhere, they closed my account because I unknowingly violated their AUP by selling an 11 round .40 cal Ruger OEM magazine on gunbroker. Well what about the $396 balance I had with them? No problem getting that back, right?

Wrong! payscum states they'll be keeping it for 180 days

Yep, agree that was HARSH.

Course, what got you was:

"You may not use PayPal to buy or sell high-capacity magazines (those which hold more than 10 rounds)". Again, because they do biz in states where that is illegal, including their own headquarters.

And I guess the 180 day thing is in the agreement somewhere also, or at least was then, although you got that back right away, with some unpaid effort.

Nobody ever claimed that PayPal/eBay has a heart, or necessarily even common sense. Of course, what publicly traded entity does?

Incidentally, I suspect that PayPal's enforcement of rules is pretty much like eBay's, which depends almost entirely on user snitches. Likely you were ratted out by another PayPal user on GunBroker.

- OS

[Guest m&pc9]

I dont like Paypal or Ebay because I used to sell on Ebay and the fees for both were outrages. When I started the fees were not to bad. At the end they were making more money off my sell than me. Thats why I dont like to use them

[Oh Shoot]

I dont like Paypal or Ebay because I used to sell on Ebay and the fees for both were outrages. When I started the fees were not to bad. At the end they were making more money off my sell than me. Thats why I dont like to use them

Nobody would use them if there were a more viable alternative.

For most, there is not.

You can always use one of the other auction sites. Really saves a lot of money in fees and labor in packing/shipping, since you won't sell much of anything.

- OS

[Guest m&pc9]

Nobody would use them if there were a more viable alternative.

For most, there is not.

You can always use one of the other auction sites. Really saves a lot of money in fees and labor in packing/shipping, since you won't sell much of anything.

- OS

I dont pack or ship anymore. I got tired of earning them money.

[Oh Shoot]

I dont pack or ship anymore. I got tired of earning them money.

I'm no longer selling "for profit" but selling much of what I own personally, trying to get more spartan, and liquidating old biz stuff for anything it's worth. Have one item I paid $15K for in '97, might get $400 tops, if that.

Discretionary income is the first to go in bad times and though prices and action on eBay are certainly depressed, am selling,which is better than throwing away. And always some pleasant surprises. Has often reminded me of fishing.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

I dont pack or ship anymore. I got tired of earning them money.

Well, you pay the devil his due, fact of life...biz life, anyway.

I wish I had to pay the IRS $200,00 each year. That would be fine with me.

- OS

[Guest Verbal Kint]

So use payscum if you want. Just don't ever tell folks how safe it is. And if what happened to me is paranoia, then I'm in the wrong universe.

And, likewise, don't show up acting like you are the know-all, end-all, regarding PayPal. You can step down off your soap box now.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I'm pretty sure you clicked that checkbox, stating you agreed to their TOS, way back when you registered with them. Whether you chose to read it and obey it is on your shoulders. You violated their rules, you got your penis smacked, you're crying about it. It's business.

Who's really at fault here? You. Not PayPal.

End of story.

[Smith]

And, likewise, don't show up acting like you are the know-all, end-all, regarding PayPal. You can step down off your soap box now.

Ignorance isn't an excuse. I'm pretty sure you clicked that checkbox, stating you agreed to their TOS, way back when you registered with them. Whether you chose to read it and obey it is on your shoulders. You violated their rules, you got your penis smacked, you're crying about it. It's business.

Who's really at fault here? You. Not PayPal.

End of story.

Please step away from the bottle! :P

[Guest Verbal Kint]

More like step away from the baseball bat.

Getting sick of people stating their opinion as gospel and then telling me what to do or not to do. Had he stated his opinion and experience, and left it at that. Cool... all is kosher. Him adding his last comment of "Just don't ever tell folks how safe it is". Yeah... well... Houston, we have a problem. Especially when the root of his problem is/was his own ignorance of their TOS.

It's like me and religion. I'm religious. I'm all for everyone having their preferred religion... or none, if you choose that. But... if you come at me and start preaching (even about my own religion), I'm likely to tell you to get the hell out of my face and STFU before I curb stomp you.

But anyway... my blood pressure is back to normal now. Merry Christmas.

[Paletiger13]

Why can't we all get along? I signed up for ready room woot woot. I'm now a benefactor

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Why can't we all get along? I signed up for ready room woot woot. I'm now a benefactor

Your bank accounts and credit cards are getting hacked by Nigerians right now, as you surf TGO.

[Oh Shoot]

Your bank accounts and credit cards are getting hacked by Nigerians right now, as you surf TGO.

I already hacked him.

Keeping the bucks stateside is good for the economy.

- OS