Self-defense killing in Unicoi Co.

[Guest salb3039]

http://www.johnsoncitypress.com/Detail.php?Cat=LOCALNEWS&ID=59480

UNICOI – A man who confronted an acquaintance with a gun over reportedly disparaging comments was shot dead early Sunday at a mobile home in Limestone Cove, an act Unicoi County Sheriff Kent Harris described Monday as self-defense. Harris said no charges would be placed against Nathan Gouge, 40, 110 Dexter Gouge Road, who fired the shot to the head that felled Clarence Hyder, 39, 135 Hyder Ridge Road, inside Gouge’s residence off Simerly Creek Road. He said all of the evidence corroborates the story told by Gouge and his 42-year-old wife, Debbie.

“At this point, we believe it to be a justifiable shooting – self-protection,” said Harris, noting that the two men had been friends and gone to school together. “(Hyder) came in, I think in a state of rage, to commit a crime. It’s a tragic event either way you look at it. The homeowners definitely had the right to protect themselves.”

The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation was called in to work the case, and it reached the same conclusion as the sheriff’s department, Harris said. According to Harris, Unicoi County 911 received the call about the shooting at 1:23 a.m. Sunday. Mrs. Gouge told 911 that she and her husband were asleep when Hyder started beating on their door. Nathan Gouge looked out the window and saw a pickup truck he did not recognize so he put a gun in his back pocket.

“He opened the door, and at that point, Hyder more or less pushed his way into the residence, according to both homeowners,” Harris said. “He had asked Gouge if Gouge had made remarks to him, such as calling him some vulgar names. Also, he had remarked to Gouge that he had heard through a third party source that Gouge had threatened to do harm to him. Gouge told him that he needed to leave, that he hadn’t made these comments.”

As this point, Hyder pulled out a .45-caliber semiautomatic handgun from the back of his pants and put it at Gouge’s head, Harris said. Gouge slapped at Hyder’s arm to push the gun away. As Gouge started to fall backward, the sheriff said, Gouge pulled out his .57-caliber revolver and fired without having time to aim, hitting Hyder.

Mrs. Gouge called 911, and the couple provided assistance to Hyder but were unable to keep him alive until emergency personnel arrived, Harris said.

Lisa Hyder, Clarence’s wife, thinks there is more to the story and wants people to know about her husband’s military service and his being a father of two girls. She contends trouble began when a relative of Gouge was trying to sell his residence and Mrs. Gouge’s father took someone there to look at it. She said Gouge threatened her father and husband.

“I don’t think he barged into their house like they’re saying,” she said of Sunday’s events. “If my husband had gone up there with the intent to kill him ... when (Gouge) opened the door, he would have killed him. He wouldn’t have gone in the house like that.”

Harris said the Gouges asked 911 whether they could remove the gun from Hyder’s hand because he was still breathing, and 911 gave them permission. Authorities later confirmed the gun belonged to Hyder.

The sheriff said they also found a 30-round clip in Hyder’s rear pocket for a .223-caliber rifle, a gun that was found in his truck. Also in the truck was a loaded and cocked .45-caliber revolver on the console, he said.

“Talking to his family, we found that he had made comments that he was going to Gouge’s house that night, that he had a problem with Gouge saying these things about him,” Harris said. “At around 12:45 a.m., according to his family, he had left his house, he had asked his wife where his big gun was at. They had tried to talk him out of going. Even his father-in-law had told him that he had spoken to Gouge and that Gouge had shook his hand and said, ‘I didn’t say these things.’ ”

Hyder was a member of the National Guard who returned about a year ago from Iraq and was going to be heading back in June. He gave a knife to the Gouges for their son and it appeared everything was all right, but then problems surrounding the alleged comments started about a month ago, Harris said.

“According to his wife, he had had some problems and was on some medication for his nerves since he got back from Iraq,” Harris said. “I don’t know if that would be a factor in (the shooting) or not.”

Mrs. Hyder would not comment about his medical condition

[TGO David]

“If my husband had gone up there with the intent to kill him ... when (Gouge) opened the door, he would have killed him.”

Hyder sounds like he was an upstanding member of society.

[Guest GT_Rat]

“Talking to his family, we found that he had made comments that he was going to Gouge’s house that night, that he had a problem with Gouge saying these things about him,” Harris said. “At around 12:45 a.m., according to his family, he had left his house, he had asked his wife where his big gun was at. They had tried to talk him out of going. Even his father-in-law had told him that he had spoken to Gouge and that Gouge had shook his hand and said, ‘I didn’t say these things.’ ”

Sounds like intent to me.

[SkWaShDeM]

According to my read, Hyder took three loaded weapons when going to confront someone. And the homeowner used a .57 caliber revolver he put in his back pocket before answering the door to defend himself? I think the Press screwed up on reporting something... The only .57 caliber revolvers I know of are blackpowder weapons that won't fit in a back pocket.

[Guest salb3039]

Anybody else notice the caliber of Gouge's gun? A .57 caliber! HA. I think whoever edited the piece doesn't know much about guns. That would be a big handgun

Damn, Ryan beat me to that one.

[Guest Hyaloid]

Saw this on the local news, and it sounds like a justifiable shoot. The wife was on telling us what a good man Hyder was. It was reported that he had also been drinking prior to going up to the Gouge residence.

Maybe it was a .357, just a typo?

[molonlabetn]

I suppose it could be a cap & ball blackpowder revolver in a large caliber... many people who cannot legally own 'firearms' can own those. Though, there is no reason to believe that is the case.

[SkWaShDeM]

My bet's on a typo. .357 sounds far more believable. The JC Press isn't known for it's gun savvy staffers regardless. From what I've seen though, it was a justifiable shooting. The family of the deceased will probably go for a civil suit though.

[molonlabetn]

This'll be the first one I'm aware of under the new Castle Doctrine legislation... let's hope that Mr. Gouge doesn't have any un-paid parking tickets...

[Guest triggertime]

What I want to know is, why did Gouge answer his door after midnight when he

didn't recognize the truck on his property? He should have called the police

instead...but I'm just nitpicking.

[saintsfanbrian]

No one answers the door at my home if we don't recognize the car.

Police aren't called, but no door is answered and if you try to come in, the alarm will be triggered and the cops will be on their way. Brinks and my wife and I know our code word. If I say the wrong thing, they know to send the cops.

[Guest Strac]

I don't know that this one will depend on the castle doctrine. When Hyder put the gun to the guy's head, thats pure self defense. As I read the castle doctrine, Hyder could have been shot the moment he burst in drunk with a gun.

[saintsfanbrian]

As I read TN law, Hyder could have been shot the moment he illegally and forcibly entered the dwelling. TN Law states that unless it is a member of the household or family member, deadly force is allowed because you can assume that the person breaking in will do you bodily harm.

I could be wrong though.

[molonlabetn]

As I read TN law, Hyder could have been shot the moment he illegally and forcibly entered the dwelling. TN Law states that unless it is a member of the household or family member, deadly force is allowed because you can assume that the person breaking in will do you bodily harm.

I could be wrong though.

You are correct... What I would be worried about though, is the clause which places a disclaimer on his exemption from liability if the shooter was engaged in any illegal activity at the time...

The above presumption would not apply under the following circumstances:

(1) The person against whom the force is used has the right to be in or is a lawful resident of the dwelling, residence, or vehicle;

(2) The person against whom the force is used is attempting to remove a person who is in the lawful custody or under the lawful guardianship of the person against whom the defensive force is used;

(3) The person using force is engaged in an unlawful activity or is using the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle to further an unlawful activity; or

(4) The person against whom force is used is a law enforcement officer who enters or attempts to enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle in the performance of the officer's official duties and the officer identified himself in accordance with any applicable law, or the person using force knew or reasonably should have known that the person entering or attempting to enter was a law enforcement officer.

I'm interested to see how deeply they dig after this little loop-hole...

[saintsfanbrian]

I would think that the "loop hole" as you are calling it would be pretty narrow.

I am trying to think of a scenario that would not be a justified shooting, but then I start coming back to what constitutes unlawful activity and I am starting to get scared.

I think clause 2 is referring to Bounty Hunters.

Clause 4 worries me because how can anyone say what a person truly knows or "should have known."

[DaveTN]

This guy is in good shape because a "reasonable person" would believe that he was in danger of death or great bodily harm.

Castle Doctrine doesn’t give him a green light for a shoot. Intent comes into play. If a friend of yours is drunk and barges into your home after you open the door his intent is not clear and you don’t get to kill him.

[Branket]

If someone held a .45 to my head I would act in the same way. I think he was justified in what he did. I also think showing up to someone's home with 3 loaded guns after asking his wife where the "big one" shows Hyder's intent to do harm.

[dralarms]

Yea, if someone busts in my house and places a 45 to my head, he might want to watch out for the one my wife will be holding and firing at his , I have a para ord, 14.45 lda sitting on the head of my bed for just an occasion. If I don't grab it she will.

Of course I WILL NOT open the door for someone I don't know and if they "bust in" well lets just say I was in fear of my life since I didn't know them and did not know what they intended.

Now on the off chance this was to happen, anyone want to come help clen up a 150 gal saltwater fish tank? Sure enough it's gonna take one in the heart:(. Anyone know what 150 gal of slat water will do to my hardwood floors?

[The Rabbi]

No one is going to charge the homeowner. No one is going to investigate to see if maybe he had some dope stashed away in a drawer, or was making illegal bets. For the prosecutor this one sounds cut and dried: drunk shows up armed and confrontational, pulls gun and threatens homeowner, homeowner neutralizes threat with a shot from his trusty .57 revolver. Case closed.

And I think it was a typo for .357. Never attribute to maliciousness what you can attribute to abject stupidity.

[towerclimber37]

No one is going to charge the homeowner. No one is going to investigate to see if maybe he had some dope stashed away in a drawer, or was making illegal bets. For the prosecutor this one sounds cut and dried: drunk shows up armed and confrontational, pulls gun and threatens homeowner, homeowner neutralizes threat with a shot from his trusty .57 revolver. Case closed.

And I think it was a typo for .357. Never attribute to maliciousness what you can attribute to abject stupidity.

I would say that since the homeowner didn't bust into someone ELSES house, what he has in his drawer is HIS business.

I'd get a mite irate if someone just showed up and decided to poke around in my underwear drawer...they might see those polkadot speedos and laugh..then naturally I'd have to shoot em.