Military & Veteran Training Requirement Change?

[Tri-Cities Bob]

Yesterday (6/27/2016) our local TV news was going through some changes in State laws which supposedly take effect on July 1, 2016.  After the wine in grocery stores change, they casually mentioned that, effective on July 1st, active duty military, retirees and veterans would be exempt from the requirement to complete the required training class before being granted a Tennessee HCP.  I can't find any reference to that change on State's DOS website or anywhere else.  Anybody heard anything about this?

[DaveTN]

That is correct, but it requires a DD214 that documents at least 4 hours of handgun training. I had handgun training, but my DD214 doesn’t list it. I have already taken the course though so its a non-issue for me.

http://columbiadailyherald.com/opinion/letters-editor/new-laws-will-aid-military-veterans

http://wkrn.com/2016/06/26/82-new-laws-to-take-effect-july-1-in-tennessee/

 

Edited June 28, 2016 by DaveTN

[enfield]

It's a stupid exemption from a stupid law.  What other Constitutional Right has a mandatory training requirement?  I'm all in favor of training, but VOLUNTARY training.

Edited June 28, 2016 by enfield

[Tri-Cities Bob]

This, if it's accurate, would appear to be a change in the current policy which requires a veteran to provide proof of the required minimum of four hours of training within the past five years.  Your DD-214 does not address training completed and the DOS website cites several DD forms which may be used to document the required training -- but this policy has been in effect for at least a year.  This "new" policy (if the TV news info is correct) appears to eliminate the training requirement all together for all veterans and active duty personnel.  Again, I can't find any official recognition of this change.

[DaveTN]

23 minutes ago, Tri-Cities Bob said:

Again, I can't find any official recognition of this change.

http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/BillInfo/Default.aspx?BillNumber=SB1490

LexisNexis has not yet posted a change, but it will be to 39-17-1351 on July 1.

Edited June 28, 2016 by DaveTN

[Tri-Cities Bob]

Okay, so it looks like the only change to current DOS policy is that the active duty member or veteran now only has to provide documentation that a 4 hour training event was completed during their time in the service and the requirement that it must have been conducted within the past five years will be eliminated on July 1st.  As usual, the local new media didn't get it quite right.  THANKS Dave TN!

[Omega]

Before all you needed was a memo from the Commander stating that you met the requirements.  The DD214 would only list official courses and maybe the marksmanship medal if you bothered to get it.  I took the course anyway just to brush up on, at the time, current laws, but there wasn't much in the class that I could not of read up on.  Besides the actual shooting part, most of that could of been done via a web based or video based class.  And the shooting portion was just a waste of bullets for the most part.

At least they could of covered care and maintenance, and more range safety type of information during the class because there were many there that were very unfamiliar with their weapons.  Even so, I too feel that training is good, but it should be voluntary not mandated. 

  

[Caster]

Kinda stupid really.  I love, respect and support our Service Men & Women but what makes them any more suited than the next guy?  Most don't carry/use handguns at all.  Not trying to take away from them in any way but a Jet engine mechanic, a surgeon and a cook [all vital roles] aren't exactly Tom Clancy novel material.  

 

I guess what I'm saying, if they're doing it as a way of saying "Thank you for your service" then I am 100% all for it.  If their reasoning is that they are somehow MORE qualified, I don't agree.  

[Omega]

4 minutes ago, Caster said:

Kinda stupid really.  I love, respect and support our Service Men & Women but what makes them any more suited than the next guy?  Most don't carry/use handguns at all.  Not trying to take away from them in any way but a Jet engine mechanic, a surgeon and a cook [all vital roles] aren't exactly Tom Clancy novel material.  

 

I guess what I'm saying, if they're doing it as a way of saying "Thank you for your service" then I am 100% all for it.  If their reasoning is that they are somehow MORE qualified, I don't agree.  

I don't see this as either really, its just that SOME military do get to train with their pistols and it makes no sense making them take the course.  Like I said above, the course is not all that, I get more info from looking it up online, specially since the class is static, meaning once you take it, it is not updated unless you keep up with changes in the law.  I do feel that anyone that can prove they have met the criteria should be allowed to skip the course if one is to be forced upon us, such as some of the civilian or NRA pistol courses that some attend.

[chances R]

Well, just how many people do, voluntarily, look up existing handgun laws?  Few to any unless you are a TGO type person.  I would also say that few in the military have had a 4 - hour HANDGUN class.....which is what the new law requires.  Again, this would not include your basic rifle training.  I am not for exceptions because the class is #1 about TN Laws, and #2 about firearms safety.  To Omega, if your class did not cover safety and basic firearms care, then your class was not conducted according to TN state HCP guidelines.

Heck, 99% of the people who take the HCP class never take anymore training.  Most could be considered consciously ignorant because they should know better if the class emphasized the topics and need for additional training.  Most however will not willfully take that personal responsibility.  When you start making exceptions you weaken the overall purpose.  Either everyone should have the basic course, or we simply have constitutional carry.  Same goes for the carrying on campus.  A full-time employee should not have anymore right to personal protection than I do. 

[Omega]

1 hour ago, chances R said:

Well, just how many people do, voluntarily, look up existing handgun laws?  Few to any unless you are a TGO type person.  I would also say that few in the military have had a 4 - hour HANDGUN class.....which is what the new law requires.  Again, this would not include your basic rifle training.  I am not for exceptions because the class is #1 about TN Laws, and #2 about firearms safety.  To Omega, if your class did not cover safety and basic firearms care, then your class was not conducted according to TN state HCP guidelines.

Heck, 99% of the people who take the HCP class never take anymore training.  Most could be considered consciously ignorant because they should know better if the class emphasized the topics and need for additional training.  Most however will not willfully take that personal responsibility.  When you start making exceptions you weaken the overall purpose.  Either everyone should have the basic course, or we simply have constitutional carry.  Same goes for the carrying on campus.  A full-time employee should not have anymore right to personal protection than I do. 

I'm fairly sure they covered it since it was a sanctioned class, along with the required video.  Jut not as much emphasis on it as it should have, such as breakdown and assembly etc, safety, yea again they covered it but not as in-depth as it could of been. 

I am all for constitutional carry, classes are fine and all but as you said, not many keep up with changes or refreshers.  Much like driving, which kill more people, many do not seek out new laws or training unless they are some kind of enthusiast, and that (driving) is a privilege not a right.   So why does a right have any mandatory anything attached to it?

[E4 No More]

9 hours ago, DaveTN said:

That is correct, but it requires a DD214 that documents at least 4 hours of handgun training. I had handgun training, but my DD214 doesn’t list it. I have already taken the course though so its a non-issue for me.

http://columbiadailyherald.com/opinion/letters-editor/new-laws-will-aid-military-veterans

http://wkrn.com/2016/06/26/82-new-laws-to-take-effect-july-1-in-tennessee/

 

Yeah, mine doesn't either.

[E4 No More]

2 hours ago, Caster said:

Kinda stupid really.  I love, respect and support our Service Men & Women but what makes them any more suited than the next guy?  Most don't carry/use handguns at all.  Not trying to take away from them in any way but a Jet engine mechanic, a surgeon and a cook [all vital roles] aren't exactly Tom Clancy novel material.  

 

I guess what I'm saying, if they're doing it as a way of saying "Thank you for your service" then I am 100% all for it.  If their reasoning is that they are somehow MORE qualified, I don't agree.  

When I was in the Marine Corps all E-4's and above had to train and qualify with the 1911 regardless of MOS.

[E4 No More]

1 hour ago, chances R said:

Well, just how many people do, voluntarily, look up existing handgun laws?  Few to any unless you are a TGO type person.  I would also say that few in the military have had a 4 - hour HANDGUN class.....which is what the new law requires.  Again, this would not include your basic rifle training.  I am not for exceptions because the class is #1 about TN Laws, and #2 about firearms safety.  To Omega, if your class did not cover safety and basic firearms care, then your class was not conducted according to TN state HCP guidelines.

Heck, 99% of the people who take the HCP class never take anymore training.  Most could be considered consciously ignorant because they should know better if the class emphasized the topics and need for additional training.  Most however will not willfully take that personal responsibility.  When you start making exceptions you weaken the overall purpose.  Either everyone should have the basic course, or we simply have constitutional carry.  Same goes for the carrying on campus.  A full-time employee should not have anymore right to personal protection than I do. 

Marine boot camp alone covered 4-hours on the 1911 in 1982.

[R1100R]

2 hours ago, Caster said:

Kinda stupid really.  I love, respect and support our Service Men & Women but what makes them any more suited than the next guy?  Most don't carry/use handguns at all.  Not trying to take away from them in any way but a Jet engine mechanic, a surgeon and a cook [all vital roles] aren't exactly Tom Clancy novel material.  

 

I guess what I'm saying, if they're doing it as a way of saying "Thank you for your service" then I am 100% all for it.  If their reasoning is that they are somehow MORE qualified, I don't agree.  

All of my Surgeons and Doctors must qualify twice a year on a handgun. This includes the cooks on their assigned weapon. To include all personnel assigned to a medical unit. This does not happen in the civilian populace outside of law enforcement.

Edited June 28, 2016 by R1100R

[chances R]

I appreciate the background on USMC.  However I have had many prior service and ex LEO in my carry classes.  Several have made very positive comments and evals about the class.  They have actively participated in class discussions to the benefit of all.  There is a lot of info for all that most would not get otherwise.  You would be surprised how many are misinformed .about when one can actually display or use a firearm.  So yes it does stink it is mandatory for a "right", but it is a cheap and useful course for the majority.

[btq96r]

 

22 hours ago, Caster said:

I guess what I'm saying, if they're doing it as a way of saying "Thank you for your service" then I am 100% all for it.  If their reasoning is that they are somehow MORE qualified, I don't agree.  

I'd guess it covers both reasons...and I don't even buy it as legit under a "thanks for your service" area.  Like you mentioned, just because they served doesn't mean they know anything about pistol shooting, or the laws with regards to carry and self-defense.

[Grunt67]

On 6/28/2016 at 5:33 AM, DaveTN said:

That is correct, but it requires a DD214 that documents at least 4 hours of handgun training. I had handgun training, but my DD214 doesn’t list it. I have already taken the course though so its a non-issue for me.

http://columbiadailyherald.com/opinion/letters-editor/new-laws-will-aid-military-veterans

http://wkrn.com/2016/06/26/82-new-laws-to-take-effect-july-1-in-tennessee/

 

Mine doesn't list it either.  Guess it really didn't matter at the time. You know your butt is headed for "Nam, and a handgun is not

a large part of your future. I was trained on an array of weapons I never laid hands on afterward.

Since I've had my HCP since they first came into being, so it's a mute point for me.

Always seemed strange to me that I was trusted with a M-16 w/ M-203 underneath then, but now the Feds don't want me near either.

Equally strange, Obama hates guns & folks that have them, yet his Secret Service carry an arsonal while protecting him.