.380 or 9mm pocket rocket

[TN_Nash_CC]

Hello all,

I've recently purchased a Sig P238 and absolutely love it.... it's a fantastic little gun. Still have a Walther CCP bit needed something I could carry every day that was a bit more discrete for the office.

My delima is.... I'm really looking hard at also picking up a new Sig P938 since it's a 9mm in very close to the same size as the P238...

Whichever Sig I choose for EDC I want to make sure it has the stopping power to end any possible situation. I've read a multitude of opinions on .380 being too weak.... to others saying... it's fine for stopping an aggressor. ...

Really wanted to pose this question to those that have more knowledge and experience than I do in this field.

Stay with the P238 or move on up to the P938....??

Thanks guys !

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[A.J. Holst]

Modern JHP .380 will get the job done.

I'm sure our 938 owners will weigh in.

Practice 9mm is cheaper than .380 which is the only reason I no longer have a .380 pistol.

[mikegideon]

The difference in power between the two is significant. If you want minimum penetration as specified by the FBI, it ain't gonna happen with a .380. I carry .380 some, though. Just depends on what I'm wearing and where I'm going.

[Sidecarist]

Another consideration is that ballistic performance is reduced in these very short barrels. I know there is some ballistic gel testing on YouTube from shooting the bull or something like that for short barrel 9mm.

Everyone comes to a point where they have to decide on the compromise of carry... Comfort, concealability, power, reliability, etc.

Lots to consider here. I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 380 if that was the only alternative to nothing... buying premium ammo and esure it's reliable too.

Good luck!

[1gewehr]

It's difficult to find a better carry .380 than the little Keltec P3AT and its copies.  Get a pocket holster and it can be with you no matter what you wear (except a Speedo :-(  ).

[Patton]

In all honesty you can compare .380 to a 38spl. The 38spl does offer heavier bullets, but the energy is the same. The way I see it you are pretty much either guaranteed expansion or penetration, but you may get lucky and receive both. 

I have heard from numerous people that the 938 has not been one of Sigs best products. On of my friends who loved his two 238's couldn't wait until the 938 was to be released. Within a week of owning the 938 he traded down for another 238. He says the size and handling difference just couldn't make him happy. 

[musicman]

I'm a 9 man when it comes to small guns.  Spending a lot more money on much weaker ammo (380) never appealed to me.  The only 380 that makes sense to me is the the KelTec or similar size supermicro pistols.  When it comes to the larger 380s, I just don't see why a person wouldn't finish the leap and get a Shield/43/XDS, etc. :/  (Full disclosure, I carry a Shield 9)

I would say 938, if it weren't for all the bad reports as of late. 

Edited June 21, 2016 by musicman

[peejman]

Hits on target are what matters. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a 20mm. 

I carry my P3AT regularly this time of year. My wife has an LCP.  We also have a Shield 9 and it's excellent, though too big to carry in my pockets. YMMV. 

There's plenty of test data out there to help you decide which ammo is best. 

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

[wolverine]

I also, have a Sig 380, I chose the 380 ammo i carry from this youtube indepth test, the precision one with Hornady xtp bullet.

here is the link for the test results,you may be suprised Just my opinion 

Ammo Quest .380 Final Wrapup: finding the BEST ammo for a .380ACP pistol

 

 

[BigK]

I'm a 9 man when it comes to small guns.  Spending a lot more money on much weaker ammo (380) never appealed to me.  The only 380 that makes sense to me is the the KelTec or similar size supermicro pistols.  When it comes to the larger 380s, I just don't see why a person wouldn't finish the leap and get a Shield/43/XDS, etc. :/  (Full disclosure, I carry a Shield 9)

I would say 938, if it weren't for all the bad reports as of late. 

My thoughts exactly. I acknowledge that .380 has come a long way and is adequate, but 9mm is still better and I wish I could hide the smallest 9mm as easily as I can the smallest .380.

[bersaguy]

I guess I will be a 380 guy till I die. I own a few and my favorite in my mod 85 Bersa. Now I realize this thread is about pocket carry and size. I know many folks will baulk when I say my preference for pocket pistol is a Phoenix 22 cal. There has been many men killed with 22 caliber firearms and far to many people underestimate the damage a 22 round can do.  I know most people think they need something from a 9 to a 40 and then 45 to feel safe. I would not want to get shot at all, even with a 22 caliber but I think a 380 caliber will remain my EDC..................jmho

[mikegideon]

22 minutes ago, bersaguy said:

I guess I will be a 380 guy till I die. I own a few and my favorite in my mod 85 Bersa. Now I realize this thread is about pocket carry and size. I know many folks will baulk when I say my preference for pocket pistol is a Phoenix 22 cal. There has been many men killed with 22 caliber firearms and far to many people underestimate the damage a 22 round can do.  I know most people think they need something from a 9 to a 40 and then 45 to feel safe. I would not want to get shot at all, even with a 22 caliber but I think a 380 caliber will remain my EDC..................jmho

My problem with 22 is more about ammo reliability than ballistics.

[leroy]

We got 'em both... I wouldn't turn around for the difference between a 238, a 938, a j frame snubby 38, or an SP 101... Don't be fooled... Short barrels are short barrels, no matter what flavor they are... As others have wisely said; ballistic performance is calmed down in short barreled weapons of any flavor... If you can shoot; any of these choices will work... All that bein said; I like the "shootability", for lack of a better term; with the 238... Much easier to follow up with than the 938... If ya wear baggy britches; carry a j frame or an sp101... If ya wear dress clothes, shorts, jeans, or a tight skirt... Carry the 238 or the 938...  If you want absolute firepower; carry a high capacity shotgun...

That's how i see things from the bunker this mornin...

leroy

[bersaguy]

2 minutes ago, mikegideon said:

My problem with 22 is more about ammo reliability than ballistics.

I totally understand that for sure and I did a lot of testing to find the right ammo. I bet I went through a couple 1000 rounds of different manufacturers to find the best of the best. As far as ballistics go I found that Hornaday, Winchester and Federal had the best I have found. The one I stay away from is Remington more than any other. They will have 2 or 3 misfires in a 10 round magazine. I might have 1 mis fire out of A 200 of the top 3 I use out of either one of my Phoenix semi autos. I also don't use hollow points at all. these are just things I have learned. Other folks may have more information on this topic.

[TNWNGR]

I've carried an LCP and Walther PPK/S more then any other .380 ACP platforms and prefer the LCP for its smaller size and better reliability. But I'd really rather have a 9mm P that I could comfortably pocket carry, the problem is I haven't found one that fit the bill I trust yet. Old Shoot has me interested in checking out the Kimber PM9 now to see if its small enough to be an EDC pocket pistol.

Bersaguy presents a good case for a .22LR pocket pistol as a secondary to a larger 380 and I'm sure it suits his needs. I'm not going to make fun of a .22LR as a defensive round because I've seen people who have been shot with different caliber pistols who either lived or died. But either way the fight pretty much stopped once they were shot.

 

[bersaguy]

In all honesty, I became a believer of the killing power of a 22 caliber while growing up. When I grew up on my grandfathers ranch I think during that time I took several large deer down with a 22 Caliber rifle when they became a nusinace and were destroying our gardens in the summer. I seldom had to track a deer I shot with a 22 caliber. They might go about 50 yards before falling down dead. That was when I realized how deadly a 22 caliber can be. I never hunted with one but I did use them for nusiance taking and I would donate the deer by calling the local game warden and he would pick it up and take it to be processed for local soup kitchens or needy families in the area.

[Steelharp]

18 hours ago, TN_Nash_CC said:

Hello all,

Whichever Sig I choose for EDC I want to make sure it has the stopping power to end any possible situation.

You need a pocket .308 if you want "stopping power." Seriously.

[monkeylizard]

Bond Arms makes a pocket .357. Just 2 shots though.

[jgradyc]

TN_Nash_CC, this is for pocket carry, right? If so, the final limiting factor is thickness of the gun in its pocket holster, in my opinion. I'd recommend you look into making your own pocket holster out of gallon milk jug plastic and gaffer's tape (non-gluey duct tape that leaves no residue). I posted how to do this in a previous thread along with pics. I'll see if I can find it. 

EDITED: Here you go...

 I make my own pocket holsters using a one gallon water jug and gaffers tape. Here is a link to the process.

http://www.thektog.org/forum/f87/milk-jug-pocket-holsters-256713/

 

The advantages of this for a pocket holster are...

 

1. They are super thin. If you want to hide something in your front pocket, the holster needs to be as thin as possible. 

2. You can contour the holster to fit against your leg and to fit how you want it to fit in your pocket. I have some holsters that are longer so the gun presents higher in a really deep pocket. That is, the bottom inch or two is just pocket filler to raise the tiny gun higher in the pocket.

3. You can shape the "hook" so it becomes almost impossible for the holster to come out when you draw. I see this as a huge plus. I have to unholster the gun to remove the holster, but it can be pocketed with the weapon with no problem.

4. It's cheap... a roll of gaffers tape is $12 and the water jug is free or only a dollar if you don't have one available. You can use duct tape, but it looks awful, as you can see in the pictures in the above link. Gaffers tape doesn't leave a visible tape residue.

 

Here's a pic from the above link showing a tiny KelTec P3-AT in a DeSantis and a Glock 26 in a milk jug holster. They are almost the same width!

 

The P3-AT in the DeSantis holster is 1 3/16" wide... actually it's even wider until the sides are compressed in your pocket. The gun in the milk jug holster on the right is 1 5/16" wide, a barely noticeable difference in the pocket, but it's a Glock 26!

 

Edited June 21, 2016 by jgradyc

[TN_Nash_CC]

Yes sir, this is for Pocket carry

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[ReeferMac]

14 hours ago, peejman said:

Hits on target are what matters. A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a 20mm. 

I carry my P3AT regularly this time of year. My wife has an LCP. 

 

Ditto on the accuracy. Practice, practice, practice.

I was going to recommend looking at the Ruger line-up, they have some nice, small, affordable, American-Made carry guns. My wife has the LC9s, it's a nice little gun, and carry's 7 of the Speer Gold Dots.... Will get the job done, even if you miss on most of them!

 

- K

[TNMP40]

When you are wearing shorts and just want something in your pocket a .380 is perfect.  Lets face it you will be up close and personal if you have to use it!

[TN_Nash_CC]

True sir, true

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[peejman]

2 hours ago, TNMP40 said:

When you are wearing shorts and just want something in your pocket a .380 is perfect.  Lets face it you will be up close and personal if you have to use it!

Yep. I consider it a "get off me" gun. I rarely shoot it 2 handed because I assume my other hand will be otherwise occupied. 

[TNWNGR]

2 minutes ago, peejman said:

Yep. I consider it a "get off me" gun. I rarely shoot it 2 handed because I assume my other hand will be otherwise occupied. 

To be graphically honest if someone's at contact range committing bodily to you and you pop them with a .22 LR or .380 ACP its going to do a bit more the get them off of you. A pistol muzzle in contact or near contact with a human body is going to project gasses and debris right behind that bullet. Depending upon the mule angle its either going to be an exceptionally outwardly nasty wound or all internal. That's one of the reasons bang sticks are so effective on sharks and gators. But the downside of a contact gunshot with a pistol is you might only get the one shot.