Needing solar bought/installed

[Dolomite_supafly]

Does anyone know anyone who will take my money to install/sell a small solar setup?

So far it seems like I am too small for any installer to do it. I would need to spend 10's of thousands before they will even think about selling me anything.

By small I mean something that will charge 4-5 12v batteries. I have no illusions about using solar for heating, cooling or cooking. I am wanting a setup I can use to charge flash lights, small electronic devices and some other small stuff. I have a smaller setup right now but it will not support what I have plans for.

I do not need an array with 50+ solar panels and dozens of batteries.

I am clueless when it comes to solar so I am trying t find an expert that will sell me what I need.

Thanks

[quietguy]

Sending a PM

[TNWNGR]

I'm in about the same boat as you in that I know a lot about solar power set ups but the installation of same is confusing to me. I would have thought any licensed electrician could have wired in a set up for you but it looks like you've run into an economy of scale problem. Can you contact a community college or trade school to see if your needs could become a class project for someone? Otherwise you might consider a prebuilt, self contained portable set up... http://sunreadypower.com/

[Randall53]

I was looking at this myself Dolomite, before I got hit with a new A/C and other problems. Rather than go through all the research and the mega pages of info to do this, I had decided on this solution:

 https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Zero-39004-XX-Large-Generator/dp/B007Q27WEM/ref=sr_1_24?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1465912055&sr=1-24&keywords=goal+zero

This seems to be the absolute best solution for me. It's plug and play with the backing of a company that has already done the research, development and manufacture and it's portable.  This will be my next expense as soon as I get the wifes  $3K cataract surgery paid for.....It's always something...LOL!!!. 

 

PS....you can also get smaller units depending on the job at hand. 

Edited June 14, 2016 by Randall53
Too add info.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I found 300 watt solar panels for $300, $381 shipped. And that single panel should do everything I need it to do. Now I guess I just need to figure it out on my own. I would just prefer to hand someone a check and let them deal with it. 

 

 

[TNWNGR]

1 hour ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

I found 300 watt solar panels for $300, $381 shipped. And that single panel should do everything I need it to do. Now I guess I just need to figure it out on my own. I would just prefer to hand someone a check and let them deal with it. 

 

 

I'm really sorry to read this because I honestly believe that any competent electrician could do this job, particularly so if its not tied into the household circuitry as that alleviates codes issues. I hope you post follow ups on what you end up with as I'm confident you have or can develop the know how to do a project like this one. 

Edited to add: I found this interesting link that might be of interest to you.

http://www.solarjourneyusa.com/installguidesmall.php

Edited June 14, 2016 by TNWNGR

[xtriggerman]

You really only need a good solar panel charge controller sized for the 300 watt panel.  Heres some basic info http://www.solar-electric.com/solar-charge-controller-basics.html/  If you can figure out that water pump......

[vontar]

Myself, I am interested in about a 300 watt or so grid tie system, mainly just to offset some of the small electric vampires around my home, maybe lower my bill just a little.

I have researched some and doesn't appear to complex, but i haven't found any LLC certified grid tie systems, at least last time I checked.

the Grid tie systems I have seen, Panels feed to the Grid tie inverter and just dumps the power on to your existing house wires.  In general a small system would not back feed to the power grid but just lesson your demand on it.  Also the grid tie inverters if they don't detect current on the lines they don't feed it either, so in the case of a black out, they don't back feed the surrounding network causing problems for people working on the electric lines.

 

Amazon sells almost anything you need related to solar.   Been half tempated, but with out finding an LLC grid tie inverter so far, kinda afraid to.

https://www.amazon.com/Missyee®-Inverter-Converter-20V-45V-System/dp/B014FY35SU/ref=pd_sim_sbs_107_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=514nv9p5ngL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=GW6PESACAK0QH9SJG2VT

Edited June 15, 2016 by vontar

[Dolomite_supafly]

If you are a KUB customer they will not allow you to use your energy after the meter. It MUST tie in ahead of the meter and YOU pay for the energy YOU produce. They will put a meter on your equipment and deduct the amount you generate then reimburse you with cash for the energy you produce IF, and it is a big if, they have the funding.

I almost when completely off the grid 4-5 years ago. Back then they had a new solar program to offset any energy I produced. They had funding set aside for people who want to go solar. The way it was supposed to work is you sell KUB your energy at .14 per kilowatt hour and they sell it back to you at the current rate which was .09 kilowatt hour. Unfortunately a few big solar fields were put up in the Knoxville area by big businesses to offset their energy costs using the new program. And those companies have used up all the funding that was supposed to help residential consumers go solar. I just spoke to the solar engineer at KUB within the last three months and it is still the same way, you will get reimbursed if funding is available. The energy YOU provide will ALWAYS be available for them to use but the funding may or may not be there now or in the future. They said there are no guarantees that you would be reimbursed but they did say that some do get reimbursed, I assumed they were talking about the companies they said are using up all the funding.

Every other state lets you tie in to your house after the meter but, according to the solar representative at KUB, KUB has an agreement with TVA. That agreement is what we have now, KUB reimburses you with cash for your energy if the funding is available. No doubt someone is making money somewhere for them to set this up this way. Like I said every other state in the United States lets you use your power first but not KUB. And that agreement is in place for at least another 20 years. I asked what would happen if I tied into my house with my solar equipment after the meter and they said I would be in trouble. Not sure what the trouble is but I don't want to take that chance. That is the ONLY reason I haven't gone completely off grid yet. Even if the system is big enough to cover all your energy needs you will still have to pay a monthly electric bill and KUB will reimburse you. That is because they require my energy for them to use first and I will only see the benefit as a check if funds are available and those funds have not been available for someone like me at least 5 years now.

So for me the $50K might not ever give me a single return on my investment unless they change the rules or more funding becomes available. And even if funds are made available I suspect those big businesses will just scale up to the new amount. And when I heard that I would not see a single dime on my $50K investment I told them I would not be interested and then they tried to convince me using the "its for the environment" argument. I am sure there are some who got in on this program before the big businesses took everything but I could not 5 years ago or three months ago.

My recent inquiry was not for a off grid system like before but for a grid tie system.

Also, they will not allow you to do partial solar setup. If your solar is permanent you MUST install enough to cover like 75% or 90% of your energy consumption. You MUST use a TVA/KUB authorized installer and they will take your electricity bills from the previous year to estimate the size of solar setup you need. That is the minimum of what MUST be installed. You cannot go smaller according to the agreement between KUB and TVA. My monthly summertime electric bills are ~$120 and wintertime is ~$230. I insulated very well when I built this house and that has helped out immensely. I mention my bills so you can get an idea of what size system you will need. They estimated that I needed a system that needed 28 of their panels. And all of the equipment, batteries and install was close to $50K with decent quality components. If I went with cheap equipment the cost would be around $35K. And they estimated my break even point would be in 22 years. So basically I would pay $50K up front and then it would take 22 years to break even IF the funding was available every one of those years. It wasn't worth the gamble for me. I even asked if I could buy the equipment and have an electrician install it. They said it would not be allowed unless it was installed by a KUB authorized installer. I am pretty sure they also said that the equipment must be bought from an authorized KUB/TVA vendor.

I am seriously considering installing solar on my new garage. I would use KUB power for all the outlets and equipment and only use solar for the lights. That way I would always have lights even when the power is out.

[Dolomite_supafly]

4 hours ago, vontar said:

Myself, I am interested in about a 300 watt or so grid tie system, mainly just to offset some of the small electric vampires around my home, maybe lower my bill just a little.

I have researched some and doesn't appear to complex, but i haven't found any LLC certified grid tie systems, at least last time I checked.

the Grid tie systems I have seen, Panels feed to the Grid tie inverter and just dumps the power on to your existing house wires.  In general a small system would not back feed to the power grid but just lesson your demand on it.  Also the grid tie inverters if they don't detect current on the lines they don't feed it either, so in the case of a black out, they don't back feed the surrounding network causing problems for people working on the electric lines.

 

Amazon sells almost anything you need related to solar.   Been half tempated, but with out finding an LLC grid tie inverter so far, kinda afraid to.

https://www.amazon.com/Missyee®-Inverter-Converter-20V-45V-System/dp/B014FY35SU/ref=pd_sim_sbs_107_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=514nv9p5ngL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=GW6PESACAK0QH9SJG2VT

Here are some great prices on solar panels.

http://www.wholesalesolar.com/solar-panels

[hardknox00001]

2 minutes ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

If you are a KUB customer they will not allow you to use your energy after the meter. It MUST tie in ahead of the meter and YOU pay for the energy YOU produce. They will put a meter on your equipment and deduct the amount you generate then reimburse you with cash for the energy you produce IF, and it is a big if, they have the funding.

I almost when completely off the grid 4-5 years ago. Back then they had a new solar program to offset any energy I produced. They had funding set aside for people who want to go solar. The way it was supposed to work is you sell KUB your energy at .14 per kilowatt hour and they sell it back to you at the current rate which was .09 kilowatt hour. Unfortunately a few big solar fields were put up in the Knoxville area by big businesses to offset their energy costs using the new program. And those companies have used up all the funding that was supposed to help residential consumers go solar. I just spoke to the solar engineer at KUB within the last three months and it is still the same way, you will get reimbursed if funding is available. The energy YOU provide will ALWAYS be available for them to use but the funding may or may not be there now or in the future. They said there are no guarantees that you would be reimbursed but they did say that some do get reimbursed, I assumed they were talking about the companies they said are using up all the funding.

Every other state lets you tie in to your house after the meter but, according to the solar representative at KUB, KUB has an agreement with TVA. That agreement is what we have now, KUB reimburses you with cash for your energy if the funding is available. No doubt someone is making money somewhere for them to set this up this way. Like I said every other state in the United States lets you use your power first but not KUB. And that agreement is in place for at least another 20 years. I asked what would happen if I tied into my house with my solar equipment after the meter and they said I would be in trouble. Not sure what the trouble is but I don't want to take that chance. That is the ONLY reason I haven't gone completely off grid yet. Even if the system is big enough to cover all your energy needs you will still have to pay a monthly electric bill and KUB will reimburse you. That is because they require my energy for them to use first and I will only see the benefit as a check if funds are available and those funds have not been available for someone like me at least 5 years now.

So for me the $50K might not ever give me a single return on my investment unless they change the rules or more funding becomes available. And even if funds are made available I suspect those big businesses will just scale up to the new amount. And when I heard that I would not see a single dime on my $50K investment I told them I would not be interested and then they tried to convince me using the "its for the environment" argument. I am sure there are some who got in on this program before the big businesses took everything but I could not 5 years ago or three months ago.

My recent inquiry was not for a off grid system like before but for a grid tie system.

Also, they will not allow you to do partial solar setup. If your solar is permanent you MUST install enough to cover like 75% or 90% of your energy consumption. You MUST use a TVA/KUB authorized installer and they will take your electricity bills from the previous year to estimate the size of solar setup you need. That is the minimum of what MUST be installed. You cannot go smaller according to the agreement between KUB and TVA. My monthly summertime electric bills are ~$120 and wintertime is ~$230. I insulated very well when I built this house and that has helped out immensely. I mention my bills so you can get an idea of what size system you will need. They estimated that I needed a system that needed 28 of their panels. And all of the equipment, batteries and install was close to $50K with decent quality components. If I went with cheap equipment the cost would be around $35K. And they estimated my break even point would be in 22 years. So basically I would pay $50K up front and then it would take 22 years to break even IF the funding was available every one of those years. It wasn't worth the gamble for me. I even asked if I could buy the equipment and have an electrician install it. They said it would not be allowed unless it was installed by a KUB authorized installer. I am pretty sure they also said that the equipment must be bought from an authorized KUB/TVA vendor.

I am seriously considering installing solar on my new garage. I would use KUB power for all the outlets and equipment and only use solar for the lights. That way I would always have lights even when the power is out.

I wouldn't care what they said, its my house and I'll run it as I see fit.  If I don't tell em I have it and place it where it would take em a little to see it, they can just go pound sand.

 

[vontar]

2 hours ago, hardknox00001 said:

I wouldn't care what they said, its my house and I'll run it as I see fit.  If I don't tell em I have it and place it where it would take em a little to see it, they can just go pound sand.

 

That is my thoughts,  300 watts, small grid tie plugged into an existing socket.  Looks easy, simple, I would just feel better when I find an LLC inverter.  If I was single, I believe I could go off grid completely, however my wife would never go for that. 

 

Edited June 15, 2016 by vontar

[rmiddle]

On 6/15/2016 at 11:05 AM, vontar said:

That is my thoughts,  300 watts, small grid tie plugged into an existing socket.  Looks easy, simple, I would just feel better when I find an LLC inverter.  If I was single, I believe I could go off grid completely, however my wife would never go for that. 

 

Get grid tied micro inveters they connect directly to the pannel and they come in 120v and 240v version and they cut over is their is no power so there is no concern about linemen shock.  

[rmiddle]

On 6/15/2016 at 8:23 AM, Dolomite_supafly said:

If you are a KUB customer they will not allow you to use your energy after the meter. It MUST tie in ahead of the meter and YOU pay for the energy YOU produce. They will put a meter on your equipment and deduct the amount you generate then reimburse you with cash for the energy you produce IF, and it is a big if, they have the funding.

I almost when completely off the grid 4-5 years ago. Back then they had a new solar program to offset any energy I produced. They had funding set aside for people who want to go solar. The way it was supposed to work is you sell KUB your energy at .14 per kilowatt hour and they sell it back to you at the current rate which was .09 kilowatt hour. Unfortunately a few big solar fields were put up in the Knoxville area by big businesses to offset their energy costs using the new program. And those companies have used up all the funding that was supposed to help residential consumers go solar. I just spoke to the solar engineer at KUB within the last three months and it is still the same way, you will get reimbursed if funding is available. The energy YOU provide will ALWAYS be available for them to use but the funding may or may not be there now or in the future. They said there are no guarantees that you would be reimbursed but they did say that some do get reimbursed, I assumed they were talking about the companies they said are using up all the funding.

Every other state lets you tie in to your house after the meter but, according to the solar representative at KUB, KUB has an agreement with TVA. That agreement is what we have now, KUB reimburses you with cash for your energy if the funding is available. No doubt someone is making money somewhere for them to set this up this way. Like I said every other state in the United States lets you use your power first but not KUB. And that agreement is in place for at least another 20 years. I asked what would happen if I tied into my house with my solar equipment after the meter and they said I would be in trouble. Not sure what the trouble is but I don't want to take that chance. That is the ONLY reason I haven't gone completely off grid yet. Even if the system is big enough to cover all your energy needs you will still have to pay a monthly electric bill and KUB will reimburse you. That is because they require my energy for them to use first and I will only see the benefit as a check if funds are available and those funds have not been available for someone like me at least 5 years now.

So for me the $50K might not ever give me a single return on my investment unless they change the rules or more funding becomes available. And even if funds are made available I suspect those big businesses will just scale up to the new amount. And when I heard that I would not see a single dime on my $50K investment I told them I would not be interested and then they tried to convince me using the "its for the environment" argument. I am sure there are some who got in on this program before the big businesses took everything but I could not 5 years ago or three months ago.

My recent inquiry was not for a off grid system like before but for a grid tie system.

Also, they will not allow you to do partial solar setup. If your solar is permanent you MUST install enough to cover like 75% or 90% of your energy consumption. You MUST use a TVA/KUB authorized installer and they will take your electricity bills from the previous year to estimate the size of solar setup you need. That is the minimum of what MUST be installed. You cannot go smaller according to the agreement between KUB and TVA. My monthly summertime electric bills are ~$120 and wintertime is ~$230. I insulated very well when I built this house and that has helped out immensely. I mention my bills so you can get an idea of what size system you will need. They estimated that I needed a system that needed 28 of their panels. And all of the equipment, batteries and install was close to $50K with decent quality components. If I went with cheap equipment the cost would be around $35K. And they estimated my break even point would be in 22 years. So basically I would pay $50K up front and then it would take 22 years to break even IF the funding was available every one of those years. It wasn't worth the gamble for me. I even asked if I could buy the equipment and have an electrician install it. They said it would not be allowed unless it was installed by a KUB authorized installer. I am pretty sure they also said that the equipment must be bought from an authorized KUB/TVA vendor.

I am seriously considering installing solar on my new garage. I would use KUB power for all the outlets and equipment and only use solar for the lights. That way I would always have lights even when the power is out.

I am not sure about this.  If you want paid back at the .14 cents you need a separate meter but if you are only offsetting your own power you can put it on your side of the meter however KUB doesn't have to install a meter that goes backwards meaning if you are using 1kw of power at 2:00 PM in the afternoon but your solar array is producing 2kw the meter just need to stop going forward so you will be giving the power company 1kw of power for free.  There are several grid assist systems that use battery by Outback that allow you to store excess power in batteries and then use said power to offset you power usage at night.  As long as it has a proper power disconnect the power company can't do squat about it.

[rmiddle]

On 6/14/2016 at 9:30 AM, Dolomite_supafly said:

Does anyone know anyone who will take my money to install/sell a small solar setup?

So far it seems like I am too small for any installer to do it. I would need to spend 10's of thousands before they will even think about selling me anything.

By small I mean something that will charge 4-5 12v batteries. I have no illusions about using solar for heating, cooling or cooking. I am wanting a setup I can use to charge flash lights, small electronic devices and some other small stuff. I have a smaller setup right now but it will not support what I have plans for.

I do not need an array with 50+ solar panels and dozens of batteries.

I am clueless when it comes to solar so I am trying tussage find an expert that will sell me what I need.

Thanks

If all you are looking to do is to charge up some batteries to have power to recharge flashlights and basic like that you really don't need to grid tie it.  Steve Harris has an excellent audio (free) and video (cost) series on the topic.  http://battery1234.com/ he will walk you though the process.  In the end you need a charger and inverter and some batteries.  I have priced everything on Amazon except for the batteries they are just cheaper to buy locally at sams club.  Depending on if you are looking for something that is just there when their is a problem or something that will be used all the time can really make a cost difference.

 

PS.  Look at GC2 golf cart batteries they are much cheaper with more power then several 12v marine batteries.

Edited August 27, 2016 by rmiddle

[Dolomite_supafly]

No matter how you set it up you cannot get the reimbursement in your bill unless they have the funding and they have not had it for about 8 years. And to get it you must have a meter to measure the energy YOUR solar setup produces.

If KUB catches you trying to put your solar after your meter so you use your power first KUB will have a BIG problem with it. I asked and was told I would be in big trouble if I tried to use the solar I produced without it hitting the public grid first.  I was told that by three separate KUB representatives including a supervisor. I was told the exact same thing by the solar installer.

I can give you all the contact info to verify. KUB and TVA are the only power utility in the country that does it this way and that won't change for another ~15 years when the current contract is renegotiated.

You cannot, as a KUB customer, have solar power go to your house  without the you produce energy going on the public grid first. 

 

[Mark A]

I guess it is easy for me to say this since I'm not in the line of fire but I think if you had a very small solar system tied to dedicated plugs with no possibility of it getting away and onto the grid they would have a pretty hard time jacking you up.

Or, if it powered just the lights in your garage and maybe a couple of plugs on a bench where you could charge small devices like phones etc... I believe what your research turned up but would they have the public will to go after you?

Big fan of Steven Harris. He seems to do a good job of researching things before he talks about them. He can sound condescending but once you realize it is just how he speaks it is easy to get past.

I learned of Steven through listening to the Survival Podcast. If you become a supporting member you get discounts from vendors. One of those is Iron Edison. The batteries they offer are essentially rebuildable forever. As with such things it is expensive on the front end but long term you will save big bucks and have batteries that retain their ability to take charges for much longer

You can join the membership on a month to month basis, get the discount and cancel... Not saying that is the right way to do it but it is set up that way...

I would think the amount of social capitol you've built up here is nearly bottomless. If you decide to tell them to take a hike I would be happy (as I'm sure would many others) to come up and help install it.

No more panels than you will need what would they say if we built a couple of frames with wheels on them? Just because you don't move them doesn't mean they aren't portable...

 

Mark

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by Mark A

[rmiddle]

4 hours ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

No matter how you set it up you cannot get the reimbursement in your bill unless they have the funding and they have not had it for about 8 years. And to get it you must have a meter to measure the energy YOUR solar setup produces.

If KUB catches you trying to put your solar after your meter so you use your power first KUB will have a BIG problem with it. I asked and was told I would be in big trouble if I tried to use the solar I produced without it hitting the public grid first.  I was told that by three separate KUB representatives including a supervisor. I was told the exact same thing by the solar installer.

I can give you all the contact info to verify. KUB and TVA are the only power utility in the country that does it this way and that won't change for another ~15 years when the current contract is renegotiated.

You cannot, as a KUB customer, have solar power go to your house  without the you produce energy going on the public grid first. 

 

Glad I don't have KUB.  I am pretty certain that would be illegal as long as you install meets the codes there is nothing they could do about it.  But then again I am not the one who would have to fight KUB so it is pretty easy for me to say :).