Hard Cast ammo and polygonal barrel

[Wingshooter]

What's the concensus? Safe to do or not? I have a G20 and want to carry some heavy, hard cast loads in the woods. I was about to order a new barrel, but I ran across some info on Buffalo Bore's website claimimg that hard cast is just fine in a polygonal barrel. 

Is this just a marketing strategy or are they correct? I don't want to lead the barrel and risk Kaboom, but if it's not an issue then I'd rather not buy a barrel. What's the word on this?

Quote

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=59

 

Hard Cast Bullets in Polygonal Barrels

 

HARD CAST BULLETS IN POLYGONAL BARRELS

 

THE SOURCE OF THE MYTH

True hard cast bullets (as opposed to lead swaged bullets) that are properly lubed will not lead foul polygonal barrels any more than any other type of rifled barrel. Ever since Glock Corporation warned to not use lead bullets in their pistols with polygonal barrels, a myth that hard cast bullets will lead foul polygonal barrels has become wide spread in some parts of the firearms world. However, the myth is untrue. Hard cast bullets are not "lead" bullets. (See my article on "Dangerous Pure Lead Cowboy Bullets") Folks (especially folks involved in the shooting industry) have a strong tendency to generalize most everything……if you do this, you’ll end up with generalized results as opposed to exacting results. Because hard cast bullets are grey in color, does NOT make them “lead” bullets.

Pure lead or nearly pure lead bullets have a tendency to foul any barrel, not just polygonal barrels. Years ago, when several Glock pistols experienced cracked barrels because of lead fouling build up from shooting pure lead bullets, Glock issued a warning not to shoot lead bullets in their polygonal barrels. From that warning, the myth that you should not shoot hard cast bullets in polygonal barrels was born. This myth was born because folks see that grey colored hard cast bullet and ASSUME it has anything to do with pure “lead”, which it does not, at least when it comes to characteristics and dynamics that make bullets perform!

 

HARD CAST BULLETS DO NOT FOUL

Provided you use real hard cast bullets, that are properly sized and utilize good lube, you can shoot them all you like in polygonal barrels without causing lead fouling deposits at the front of your chamber or anywhere else in the barrel. I have fired literally thousands of properly alloyed, lubed and sized hard cast bullets from my various Glock pistols and have never experienced any metallic fouling build-up of any consequence. If I did that same amount of shooting with cheap pure lead swaged bullets of unknown origin, I could have severely lead fouled my barrels, to the point of creating a bore obstruction and possible cracking or bursting a barrel. However, in my experience, quality hard cast bullets won't foul a Glock polygonal barrel or any other type of barrel but lead bullets normally will.

 

WHY I WRITE THESE TECH ARTICLES

The shooting industry is rumor filled from top to bottom. This normally happens because folks do not understand how to be exacting in their communications….. they tend to generalize. In this case, they think a lead bullet is the same as a hard cast bullet. Also, folks will hear a rumor regarding almost anything gun-ammo related and pass it on as if it is first-hand experience to them and if enough of this happens, we end up with urban legends, that are wide spread, that are nothing more than pure BS. I am going to now generalize a bit, but I am warning you first……. I hear more untrue crap from guys working behind the counter in gun shops, pretending to know stuff about guns and ammo, than I do any other place…… this cannot always be the case as somewhere, in some gun shop, there must be some knowledgeable employees or owners, but generally this is not the case. A little knowledge, does not equal a lot of knowledge about almost everything related! So, Buyer/Listener, BEWARE! After four decades of heavy involvement in the shooting industry and seeing first-hand how much misinformation is prevailing in the shooting industry, I’ve decided to start writing these short articles. I hope they are of some value to the reader.

Good shooting and God bless,
Tim

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Wingshooter

[DWARREN123]

I have used hard cast 175gr SWC bullets in a G20 with no problems. Ran them pretty warm and they did great.

Soft lead is the big no-no in Glocks and similar barrels.

[Caster]

The hardness of the lead is NOT the problem.  The problem is, most people cannot or will not understand the whole dynamic. 

 

FIT is everything.  The bullet size as well as how it fits the throat means EVERYTHING.  The hardness needed for a specific load is totally dependent on the velocity one is trying to achieve.  I have shot 50/50 wheel weight lead and soft lead in Glock barrels with a properly fitted bullet at modest speeds and have never seen lead in my barrels.

 

Casting is just like tuning a motor.  If all you wanna do is slap headers and a four barrel on, you're wasting your time.  THE WHOLE engine must be tuned for what you plan on doing with it.  

[Omega]

Before I knew a thing about casting, alloys, polygonal barrels etc.  I fired over 1500 rounds of cast bullets from my Glock 23 with no issues that I noticed.  These were purchased .401 bullets and I never measured to check if that is what they actually measured so either I got real lucky or there just isn't much to it.  The only difference I did notice is that they bulged the case mouth more than my fmj or hollow points, but they passed the plunk test so I went with it.

[Caster]

Omega, you found out the easy way, a LOT of poly barrel cast lead myth is just that....BS myth.  

[Caster]

I will also say, aside from poor casting/reloading practices, the other BIG contributing factor to leading problems in a poly barrel is plain ole laziness.  I know we all joke that we don't clean a Glock but dadgum people!  Take a look at your equipment once in a while.  

[Wingshooter]

All great info. I still need a 10mm mold before I can cast my own. I'm going to order one, but I'd like to have a good defensive load for the woods right away. Which factory load should I try through the stock bbl until I get around to rolling my own? The BuffaloBore 220HC, Double Tap HCGC or Underwood?

DoubleTap also makes this FMJ-FP that they claim is a good penetrator for woods protection. How is this any better than other FMJ? http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=125_178&product_id=593

[Sidecarist]

Underwood. They load 10mm like it was intended! Quality and service are great too.

[13brv3]

I carry Underwood 200 or 220 grain hardcast.  The G20 is fine with either, but the G29 prefers 200.  The Buffalo Bore 220 showed some signs of instability when I tried it, so I stick with the Underwood.  

Cheers,

Rusty

 

 

[Wingshooter]

2 hours ago, Sidecarist said:

Underwood. They load 10mm like it was intended! Quality and service are great too.

 

1 hour ago, 13brv3 said:

I carry Underwood 200 or 220 grain hardcast.  The G20 is fine with either, but the G29 prefers 200.  The Buffalo Bore 220 showed some signs of instability when I tried it, so I stick with the Underwood.  

Cheers,

Rusty

 

 

 

I just ordered 100 rounds of Underwood 200gr HC. I'll give them a spin and carry a couple mags full if they work out.

 

I want to build my own for this gun though once I can get the time.

 

EDIT: And within an hour, it's marked "shipped"

Edited June 6, 2016 by Wingshooter

[et45]

I bought my first Glock in 89,started reloading in 90.Fast forward to 98 when I got on this new fangled internet and folks were saying don't shoot lead in Glocks......never had a problem.

[Wingshooter]

I received my 100 rounds on 200gr HC from Underwood today. I ordered it Monday, so I'm super impressed with their shipping right now. I'll put some rounds through the chrono in the next couple days. 

 

[Patton]

I have shot tons of lead through factory Glock barrels and have noticed very little lead, but it generally was cleaned out easily by cleaning or shooting. I see were you bought Underwood instead. While I can not comment on them I can comment on Buffalo Bore. I found Buffalo Bore to be some of the worst performing ammo I h age ever shot. Accuracy was terrible, and it wasn't because of heavy recoil.

[Caster]

For the novice out there who may not know; You should understand the difference between 'leading' and 'antimony wash'. 

 

Antimony wash is a silvery grey color left in the barrel.  It does NOT affect accuracy and does NOT affect safety.  It's merely a color left behind.

Leading looks like a smeared build up and the difference should be immediately apparent.  Leading, when looking down the bore, just looks like it don't belong in there.  Antimony wash isn't necessarily visible from certain light angles.  

 

SO, just cause you see a little silver color left behind, don't git yer panties in a wad.  Learn to tell the difference.