Civil War: Would you pick a muzzle loader or an AR / M4?

[peejman]

I've read stuff before that said a single SEAL team with their typical load could have done enough damage to win the war for either side in 2 weeks. 

[Sam1]

10 minutes ago, peejman said:

I've read stuff before that said a single SEAL team with their typical load could have done enough damage to win the war for either side in 2 weeks. 

Need 3 weeks, can't get enough good video for future documentaries in 2 weeks.  I want to watch every second of it.

[Trekbike]

1 hour ago, peejman said:

I've read stuff before that said a single SEAL team with their typical load could have done enough damage to win the war for either side in 2 weeks. 

 

Not saying that might not be true, but how did they come to that conclusion unless it was just meant as trash talking?   

[Caster]

I would say they came to that conclusion because 2 weeks is about how long it would take to ride a horse from the south to the northern headquarters, form a plan, infiltrate and lay some demolition then scoot while Union HQ is turn to a smoldering ash heap full of Union leader bodies.  

[Pete123]

I'm going to have to call ego based trash talk on the idea that a single seal team with a typical load could have achieved that.  3,000,000 Americans fought in that war.  I'm not seeing a single team, as badass as the Seals are, being able to pull that off.  

 

[peejman]

It's not about killing the soldiers. It's about taking out the leadership.  The SEAL team could kill nearly every officer on both sides and half the government officials.  With no leadership, there'd be no war. 

[Pete123]

I'll be the first to say that I'm not a military guy and don't have knowledge to base my thought on solid info.

[Oh Shoot]

3 minutes ago, peejman said:

It's not about killing the soldiers. It's about taking out the leadership.  The SEAL team could kill nearly every officer on both sides and half the government officials.  With no leadership, there'd be no war. 

Requires some major assumptions, like having 21st century transportation in the 19th century to cover a vast amount of miles (and even if you did, you didn't have the roads to effectively use it), avoiding artillery (19th century barrages were as deadly as modern ones if they found yer own self), and all sorts of other anachronistic leaps. But numero uno would still be intelligence -- how could they know where everybody was or was likely to be at any given time?

- OS

[Omega]

I won't go into a bunch of could be's but Baron von Steuben was a definite force multiplier during the revolutionary war, imagine what a seal team could do to get one side or the other trained in modern military tactics? 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Omega
Speeling

[Sam1]

11 hours ago, Pete123 said:

I'm going to have to call ego based trash talk on the idea that a single seal team with a typical load could have achieved that.  3,000,000 Americans fought in that war.  I'm not seeing a single team, as badass as the Seals are, being able to pull that off.  

 

I'd say it could be done.  Thermal imaging. 2 weeks, not sure.  Takes a while to move around, but being 100% operational at night with the others having no night capabilities sounds legit.

 

Definitely need more than a "standard load" though lol

Edited May 25, 2016 by Sam1

[Dolomite_supafly]

Next time I see some I will buy some black powder, or alternative, and give it a go. I will shoot my 300 Blackout with heavy subsonic bullets to see how long it will shoot before its first malfunction from crud. I bet it will go a lot longer than expected. I will even run it dry as a bone until the first malfunction then run it wet after that to see how long it will go.

[nightrunner]

2 minutes ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

Next time I see some I will buy some black powder, or alternative, and give it a go. I will shoot my 300 Blackout with heavy subsonic bullets to see how long it will shoot before its first malfunction from crud. I bet it will go a lot longer than expected. I will even run it dry as a bone until the first malfunction then run it wet after that to see how long it will go.

I'm genuinely curious, do you think it would work with supersonic velocities?

[peejman]

11 hours ago, Oh Shoot said:

Requires some major assumptions, like having 21st century transportation in the 19th century to cover a vast amount of miles (and even if you did, you didn't have the roads to effectively use it), avoiding artillery (19th century barrages were as deadly as modern ones if they found yer own self), and all sorts of other anachronistic leaps. But numero uno would still be intelligence -- how could they know where everybody was or was likely to be at any given time?

- OS

Like I said, a fully equipped team. They'd do everything at night, and likely be labeled the 1860's equivalent of terrorists (or ghosts) because of their tactics. 

[Sidecarist]

1 hour ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

Next time I see some I will buy some black powder, or alternative, and give it a go. I will shoot my 300 Blackout with heavy subsonic bullets to see how long it will shoot before its first malfunction from crud. I bet it will go a lot longer than expected. I will even run it dry as a bone until the first malfunction then run it wet after that to see how long it will go.

That will be interesting to hear about. You will probably need 3F powder to get the burn rate up to work in a short barrel. I think the real thing will work better than the substitutes...

I'm betting that Dry is the way to run it. Black Powder fouling is always worse on humid days, and the worse in guns using a greased patch compared to non lubricated bullet.

[Caster]

6 minutes ago, nightrunner said:

I'm genuinely curious, do you think it would work with supersonic velocities?

NO

 

The 300 BLK has a very similar case capacity to a 32/20.  A 32/20 would need warm handloads with smokeless to achieve supersonic.  BP?  No.  

Edited May 25, 2016 by Caster

[E4 No More]

Yes, had the South invested in manufacturing BEFORE the war the outcome would have been much different. Of course, had Lee made some different decisions at Gettysberg things would have been different too.

[Dolomite_supafly]

33 minutes ago, nightrunner said:

I'm genuinely curious, do you think it would work with supersonic velocities?

No telling but we shall see. I have plenty of bullets between 85 grains and 270 grains.

I recently designed another bullet for subsonic 300 Blackout. It is 270 grains and right now I am getting ready to send examples to some people in the industry to make sure their products are compatible with my bullet. So far the 270 grain bullet is stable in an 8.5 twist and 8 twist barrels at 1,000 fps. It is on the verge of unstable in 10 twist at subsonic velocities but once I push the 270 grain bullet past 1,100 fps they are stable. I think it will be the perfect black powder bullet.

[nightrunner]

2 hours ago, Dolomite_supafly said:

No telling but we shall see. I have plenty of bullets between 85 grains and 270 grains.

I recently designed another bullet for subsonic 300 Blackout. It is 270 grains and right now I am getting ready to send examples to some people in the industry to make sure their products are compatible with my bullet. So far the 270 grain bullet is stable in an 8.5 twist and 8 twist barrels at 1,000 fps. It is on the verge of unstable in 10 twist at subsonic velocities but once I push the 270 grain bullet past 1,100 fps they are stable. I think it will be the perfect black powder bullet.

I was curious about something like a 110-130gr with a full case of BP. Just wondering what kind of velocity could be had.