HCP Holders - Supplemental Qualification Opportunity

[Fallguy]

EDIT...Nevermind

Note from Double After Split: The original post in this thread was essentially an advertisement from Big Poppa offering a HCP class-type qualification whereby the student could use a gun other than the one they took the permit class with. This was not a DOS-sanctioned class or any kind of permit renewel, simply a way to simulate the carry permit class shooting requirements with a different gun and get some extra training to boot. This then sparked some (rather lively) debate about the necessity and wisdom of such a class, whether you have to actually qualify with the gun you use in the permit class, and other such issues.

Since the original post was essentially an advertisement, I moved it to Vendor Services. Please go there to see the details, or pm Big Poppa. The ensuing debate holds, I think, at least some value, and I feel that it can remain in this forum.

Carry on,

DAS

Edited December 16, 2008 by P. Stegall

[BigPoppa]

How is this beneficial to anyone at all?

You've got a recorded score on file with a registered instructor. Shooting somebody with a gun you've never qualified with could potentially come up in court. $ 10 and a hour of your time takes away a potential rock that could be thrown at you later.

It's just another piece of your responsible gun owner paper trail.

And...........some folks on here just like another reason to go shoot.

[Guest jackdog]

the problem with doing that is it is no big deal to meet the HCP shooting standards. So what would you be gaining in the process.

[BigPoppa]

the problem with doing that is it is no big deal to meet the HCP shooting standards. So what would you be gaining in the process.

You're meeting the same standard you had to to initially get the HCP. A standardized proficiency level mandated by the State, just with a different gun.

[Guest jackdog]

It is not a state requirement for carry so I still don't see where you gain anything. Although shooting is always fun, and the cost is really no more than range time.

[BigPoppa]

It is not a state requirement for carry as I said in the OP

so I still don't see where you gain anything. maybe not...it doesn't do any harm either

Although shooting is always fun, and the cost is really no more than range time. see.....it's a win-win

[Fallguy]

You've got a recorded score on file with a registered instructor. Shooting somebody with a gun you've never qualified with could potentially come up in court. $ 10 and a hour of your time takes away a potential rock that could be thrown at you later.

It's just another piece of your responsible gun owner paper trail.

And...........some folks on here just like another reason to go shoot.

You don't "qualify" with the gun in your original HCP course. You simply shoot at a target you must hit a certain amount of times, doesn't matter if they are all in the 10 ring or 7 ring. You don't even have to own the gun you shoot. I've heard of many instructors stop counting once the required number of hits were reached. Isn't the firing range portion a simple Pass/Fail and not actually scored?

It's just another piece of paper that IMO is not needed, if the state wanted you to "qualify" or actually shoot each specific gun you carried they would require it. It's sort of like why I hate the HCP badge. The badge gives into the misconception that only those with badges should carry guns in public. Well this supports the misconception that if you don't meet certain standard with your specific carry weapon you are some how less justified to carry that weapon or open to more liability.

I don't need a reason to shoot, if I want to..I go shoot...and I don't have to give anyone $10 to do it.

I tried to say never mind, and just let it go before anyone else posed in the thread.

Edited December 16, 2008 by Fallguy

[Guest jackdog]

Well I can't argue with that logic, now can I.

[BigPoppa]

You don't "qualify" with the gun in your original HCP course. You simply shoot at a target you must hit a certain amount of times, doesn't matter if they are all in the 10 ring or 7 ring.

From the Tennessee Department of Safety:

A minimum score of seventy percent (70%) must be achieved on the written examination and firing qualification separately to successfully pass the Handgun Safety Course;

[Fallguy]

Is an actual score recorded or just Pass/Fail?

[BigPoppa]

It's just another piece of paper that IMO is not needed,......................

I don't need a reason to shoot, if I want to..I go shoot...and I don't have to give anyone $10 to do it.

Sooo.......I guess I won't save you a spot Wednesday.

And please don't try to pee in my corn flakes and muddy the waters by introducing the irrelevant and controversial HCP "Badge" argument. The "Badge" has nothing at all to do with what I am offering.

[BigPoppa]

Is an actual score recorded or just Pass/Fail?

From the Tennessee Department of Safety:

A minimum score of seventy percent (70%) must be achieved on the written examination and firing qualification separately to successfully pass the Handgun Safety Course;

[Fallguy]

Sooo.......I guess I won't save you a spot Wednesday.

And please don't try to pee in my corn flakes and muddy the waters by introducing the irrelevant and controversial HCP "Badge" argument. The "Badge" has nothing at all to do with what I am offering.

Correct...don't save me a spot.

I wasn't trying to compare your actions to the badge, just how the playing on a misconception part was simillar.

Hope everyone has fun.

[Fallguy]

From the Tennessee Department of Safety:

A minimum score of seventy percent (70%) must be achieved on the written examination and firing qualification separately to successfully pass the Handgun Safety Course;

Still didn't answer my question about is a numerical score is recorded on the firing range portion or if the instructor simply writes Pass once he has determined at least 70% was met.

[BigPoppa]

Well this supports the misconception that if you don't meet certain standard with your specific carry weapon you are some how less justified to carry that weapon

Ummm....................it's not a "misconception" - it's a cornerstone of the Handgun Safety Course. Shoot less than 70% and I'm not going to be able to give you a certificate.

[Fadex]

Man....I have to pay almost $20 just to shoot in Murfreesboro. If I didn't have to work, I would be there. It's worth the money just to get in some extra practice.

[BigPoppa]

Still didn't answer my question about is a numerical score is recorded on the firing range portion or if the instructor simply writes Pass once he has determined at least 70% was met.

We record a numerical score. I cannot speak for other schools or instructors.

I only know what we do and what TDOS procedures say.

[BigPoppa]

Man....I have to pay almost $20 just to shoot in Murfreesboro. If I didn't have to work, I would be there. It's worth the money just to get in some extra practice.

I'll PM you next time we do this....more notice next time, on a Saturday, and better weather.

[Fallguy]

Ummm....................it's not a "misconception" - it's a cornerstone of the Handgun Safety Course. Shoot less than 70% and I'm not going to be able to give you a certificate.

Ummm...yes it is! Read my post I said with your carry weapon. Yes...you have to get the hard to reach score of 70%, but you can do it with a gun you rent or borrow from someone. So as long as I get my 70% it doesn't matter if I ever see that same gun again in my life. So the misconception is that it somehow makes a difference what weapon you use for the course and which one you carry.

But listen...as I said...do what you want if other's want to join in that's fine.

Who knows...if enough instructors try to make a little extra money like this the state may decide that you should only carry the weapon you shoot at the course and that you should have to shoot again with any other handguns you want to carry. That way if you have a gun in the shop or out or service for any other reason...you simply won't be able to carry if that is the only gun you have qualified with. I'm sure the state likes to make money too...they may even decide we need to qualify again when we renew our permits every 4 years.

[Fallguy]

We record a numerical score. I cannot speak for other schools or instructors.

I only know what we do and what TDOS procedures say.

You've been quoting TDOS procedures...so where is the part about recording the specific numerical score? Are you saying instructors that don't do that aren't following TDOS procedure?

[BigPoppa]

Ummm...yes it is! Read my post I said with your carry weapon. Yes...you have to get the hard to reach score of 70%, but you can do it with a gun you rent or borrow from someone. So as long as I get my 70% it doesn't matter if I ever see that same gun again in my life. So the misconception is that it somehow makes a difference what weapon you use for the course and which one you carry. As I said, it MAY matter if you're ever actually in a shooting. Will it ? I don't know, but I do know that by doing something I enjoy anyway I can remove that as one possible legal thorn in the event I am forced to shoot somebody and then end up in court.

But listen...as I said...do what you want if other's want to join in that's fine. Exactly. I just posted an opportunity. I described plainly that it wasn't required...just there if you wanted it. You came along with "what good is this, etc. etc"

Who knows...if enough instructors try to make a little extra money like this Yes...I am becoming a wealthy man at $ 10 a pop the state may decide that you should only carry the weapon you shoot at the course This was previously the law in Tennessee prior to 1996. and that you should have to shoot again with any other handguns you want to carry. That way if you have a gun in the shop or out or service for any other reason...you simply won't be able to carry if that is the only gun you have qualified with. I'm sure the state likes to make money too...they may even decide we need to qualify again when we renew our permits every Again, you are introducing arguments not germane to my offer. In court, I would object because this "calls for speculation"

[Fallguy]

Like the emoticon don't we?....

Could have just posted this in the Vendor Services Area and I probably would have never seen it....lol

[BigPoppa]

You've been quoting TDOS procedures...so where is the part about recording the specific numerical score?

A copy of all scores shall be maintained by the Handgun Safety School for a minimum of five (5) years from the date of the examinations.

Are you saying instructors that don't do that aren't following TDOS procedure?

My previous statement stands on its own merit.

[BigPoppa]

Like the emoticon don't we?....

Could have just posted this in the Vendor Services Area and I probably would have never seen it....lol

Yes.......if I could go back in time, I would have taken the path of least resistance.

and, yes, I do :screwy:

[BigPoppa]

Could have just posted this in the Vendor Services Area and I probably would have never seen it....lol

Nobody else would've seen it either