Keep your guns out of your CARS!!!!

[Guest db99wj]

I really need to be working, but I do want to make another comment, my thread, I can do it.

Those that are against what I did or have problems with what I did, what would you do? Do you not stand your ground? Have you not made that decision? You have a permit, and with that permit you have agreed to the responsibility of the fact that you carry a gun with the possibility that you will have to use it with the possibility of taking a life if you use it. You have decided to stand your ground and not hide behind things, you have said I will not be pushed around, I will not be afraid and if you try to hurt me or my family by threatening our lives, then you will receive the full force of my training, abilities and my tools, and there is a good possibility that in order to eliminate this threat, their life might cease to exist. You have made this decision to stand your ground.

However, if you won't stand your ground in a situation like this, then you might need to rethink your decision to carry a gun. If you won't confront or report, or be a witness with a suspicious car, then what are you going to do if someone threatens your life? If you are in that situation and you hesitate, and do what is necessary, your life could be taken. You don't pull your gun as a deterrent, you don't pull your gun to wound, you don't pull your gun to fire warning shots, you pull your gun to eliminate the threat...period.

The events the other night did not in anyway involve a gun, none whatsoever.

Edited December 17, 2008 by db99wj

[Punisher84]

However, if you won't stand your ground in a situation like this, then you might need to rethink your decision to carry a gun. If you won't confront or report, or be a witness with a suspicious car, then what are you going to do if someone threatens your life? If you are in that situation and you hesitate, and do what is necessary, your life could be taken. You don't pull your gun as a deterrent, you don't pull your gun to wound, you don't pull your gun to fire warning shots, you pull your gun to eliminate the threat...period.

Some people are scared. Plain and simple. I see it every day where people take the permit class simply because they believe carrying a gun empowers them, makes them better, in some way. They don't understand that the steps that lead to not having to carry a gun, do not involve a gun at all. Being vigilant, being prepared, and DOING SOMETHING ABOUT CRIME. Do not have to involve a firearm or permit.

What you are coming across is plain and simple. Sheep huddling close enough to the sheepdogs to attempt to be a sheepdog themselves.

[Guest Ggun]

By using a drive way. It is a residential street, couldn't turn the whole way, so I used the drive way. Guess it was a 3 point turn, you know, make the first turn, so that I go in at an angle to the drive way, put in reverse so that I can back up so that I don't drive in someones grass, then put in drive to move forward.

Also, there are no "No uturn" signs on this street.

Any more questions?

Yes. What procedures did you put into effect to secure the safety of your loved ones (and property) while you were out hunting down this so called BG?

Since you said you thought the car was potentially waiting on someone, when you chased after the car, did you consider that the remaining person(s) may choose the opportunity to enter your home, knowing you were gone?

[Punisher84]

Yes. What procedures did you put into effect to secure the safety of your loved ones (and property) while you were out hunting down this so called BG?

Since you said you thought the car was potentially waiting on someone, when you chased after the car, did you consider that the remaining person(s) may choose the opportunity to enter your home, knowing you were gone?

What would you have done? You seem to have a knowledge we don't, so please, enlighten us?

Given the information at hand what would you have done? What would constitute suspicious behavior to you? A shotgun pointed out the window??

You also need to get your facts straight. He didn't "chase" anyone. He followed a suspicious vehicle to get a driver description and a tag number. There is a huge difference.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Okay... I'll toss fuel on the fire.

---

I agree that he should not have taken it upon himself to pursue the vehicle. Why? Because he went looking for a confrontation, rather than defending himself and his own. And the old adage of "a good defense is a strong offense" is BS here. If he suspected something was fishy, he should have simply called in the vehicle description to the police (as he did) and left it at that. The same results would have been met... increased patrols... or they could have possibly detained her. If he felt something was seriously amiss, he could have returned to his house and waited while the police came.

Instead, he busts a uturn (his wording) and starts the confrontation. Chick drives away, he follows. He pulls up on her and rolls down his window, she tries to get away. He high beams her. She takes off. He chases her.

First... he's lucky (if she was doing something wrong) that he didn't get shot in the face when he pulled up and lowered his window. If she was there, with ill intents, she probably wouldn't have that much of a problem shooting him if she was armed. Now, because he took it upon himself to perform a cop's duty... he's left his family fatherless and widowed. Merry Christmas to them. Good looking out!

Second... if she wasn't up to anything wrong, he could have quite possibly spooked her due to his actions. She was sitting there for 5 minutes and he didn't recognize the car... and??? Do you know everyone in your neighborhood, what cars they drive or may have recently purchased, or who their friends are and what cars they drive? Probably not. So this game of cat and mouse may have been caused by his actions. Furthermore, if my wife called me on a cell phone and said some dude was following her, high-beaming her, and trying to get her to roll down her window... I would be on my way to intercept them/her, along with the police, as that person has already actively posed a threat to my significant other. I guarantee it would end poorly for that person, one way or another.

Bottom line... the person was sitting there. That's it. Anything else planned, or not planned, was left to be seen. Grats on calling in the police, but it should have been left at that. The same results (heightened patrol) would have been met. Instead he acted outside of his pay grade and occupation, and put himself in danger (and his family in the position of possibly losing him). I'm all for keeping my neighborhood safe, but I'm not going to go provoking someone or instigating a situation to do so. That's what the authorities are for... to investigate the situation. That's why they wear the body armor, carry the gun, and get the training. Not you or I.

This is no different than if someone were trying to break into your house. Are you going to go outside and confront them? Or are you going to arm yourself, stay inside under cover, and call the authorities?

Those of you saying you would do the exact same thing need to rethink your plan of attack, or seek a job with your local law enforcement. This situation could have played out much worse for the OP in a few different ways. Luckily it didn't.

[Guest db99wj]

Yes. What procedures did you put into effect to secure the safety of your loved ones (and property) while you were out hunting down this so called BG?

Since you said you thought the car was potentially waiting on someone, when you chased after the car, did you consider that the remaining person(s) may choose the opportunity to enter your home, knowing you were gone?

My wife is an excellent shot. They were at the end of my street away from my house. They, if there was a "they" would have to have walked down the front of houses, or down the street due to numerous fences, and dogs. We have locks and use them, the alarm was set, did I mention that my wife was an excellent shot. Besides, if there was someone she was waiting on and their ride left the area because someone was "on to them" I don't think they would be sticking around going to other houses, they would probably be, and I know criminals are stupid, but I think they would be getting out of there.

I guess if the world was perfect and I could clone my self, I would have taken up a defensive position at my house while my clone when to get the information for the police so that they could possibly investigate. But alas, that is not possible.

Please do share with us what you would have done?

[Punisher84]

Verbal have you ever been a cop? Your lack of knowledge about procedure shows in that post.

Maybe I'm defending DB more than I would normally because I know him and have discussed this situation at a bit more length than he has here, but you guys that are flaming him and acting like he chased her down the street at 80 mph flashing his hi-beams and honking need to get a grip.

You have no idea the issues that some of these neighborhoods in Memphis are facing right now with burglaries, VIOLENT burglaries. If DB had gotten shot that would be horrible and you'd all be going well that's what he gets for playing cop blah blah blah cowardly blah.

The truth is if more people did take the time to notice something beyond their ass crime would be lower, but that's ok. You can leave it to guys like me, Jlowe, DaveTN, EMTRN, and every other LEO, government agent, and even corporate security officer to take care of you. So remember that the next time you are stuck at a traffic stop bitching about the cop that is holding you up, because YOU WOULDN'T DO THAT JOB.

I'm done with this. Some of you guys are like bad electric wiring, you can't figure out if you want to be on or off.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Again... you didn't need a plate number. The car was sitting there. Had you not alerted them to your suspicion (i.e. confronting them) you could have simply called in the vehicle description and location... assuming you had a cell phone like most people in the world now... and the cops quite possibly could have located her AND detained her. Instead you acted, spooked her, and she was never detained.

I'm glad your wife is a good shot. That really has no bearing, outside the realm of hypothetical situations. Reiterating that she's a good shot just points to your mentality of this entire situation and brings further question as to whether you escalated the "problem" and what you had hoped for.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Verbal have you ever been a cop? Your lack of knowledge about procedure shows in that post.

No. Have you? Are you? My grandfather was chief of police, and I have several family members that are... but that has about as much bearing on me, as your question does in this thread?

I don't have to be a cop to realize the intelligent, safest, course of action regarding his story.

Maybe I'm defending DB more than I would normally because I know him and have discussed this situation at a bit more length than he has here, but you guys that are flaming him and acting like he chased her down the street at 80 mph flashing his hi-beams and honking need to get a grip.

I believe you are. And I never said he chased her down at 80mph speeds or honking. I clearly read his post, and even had it open in another window (citing it), while I typed my reply. If you think I inaccurately restated his story, I challenge you to go back and read it yourself. I took his own words as account of the detail. If that's not what happened, maybe he needs to further elaborate.

You have no idea the issues that some of these neighborhoods in Memphis are facing right now with burglaries, VIOLENT burglaries. If DB had gotten shot that would be horrible and you'd all be going well that's what he gets for playing cop blah blah blah cowardly blah.

The truth is if more people did take the time to notice something beyond their ass crime would be lower, but that's ok. You can leave it to guys like me, Jlowe, DaveTN, EMTRN, and every other LEO, government agent, and even corporate security officer to take care of you. So remember that the next time you are stuck at a traffic stop bitching about the cop that is holding you up, because YOU WOULDN'T DO THAT JOB.

I'm done with this. Some of you guys are like bad electric wiring, you can't figure out if you want to be on or off.

I served my country for 6 years, with the blank check of laying down my life if need be. Something you should obviously understand and recognize. My family, further endorsed that check by accepting my choice. I really don't need you or any other keyboard commando trying to question my stance on taking care of my own. So to that regard, go **** yourself.

Bottom line... I'm not a cop. I am currently going through the process and hoping for an academy date soon, as I have several people on city and county pulling for me to get hired. Until such time, I'm still not a cop. And I'm not going to play one.

[Punisher84]

I served my country for 6 years, with the blank check of laying down my life if need be. Something you should obviously understand and recognize. My family, further endorsed that check by accepting my choice. I really don't need you or any other keyboard commando trying to question my stance on taking care of my own. So to that regard, go **** yourself.

Bottom line... I'm not a cop. I am currently going through the process and hoping for an academy date soon, as I have several people on city and county pulling for me to get hired. Until such time, I'm still not a cop. And I'm not going to play one.

This is the only part I'm going to reply to, since the rest is pretty much difference of opinion on his actions right or wrong and I'll concede that.

Yes I understand military service, as far as me being a keyboard commando? I've never claimed to do or be anything other than what I am. That is for the record...ex-army with a medical discharge, Training Officer for Campus Security for a local large service hospital, and soon to be reserve police officer. I have another job, but due to employer request I can't discuss it here. No it's nothing with the CIA, I just respect his business wishes.

I work with LEOs every single day and what I do everyday is in the same league I just don't get the joy of saying I'm an LEO. I get pretty much the same work and all the fun of walking up to a car not knowing who is inside, fighting with people who may or may not be armed, risk of diseases, lawsuits, and the disgust of people who don't understand what I do or why I do it and then go well you're not a cop.

I have no problems with what I do, as a matter of fact have turned down 2 offers from local agencies to try out because I like where I work and feel that I make a difference. I stand behind what I said and how I feel about the situation overall.

I've always gotten along with you and I do feel that I probably stepped over the line a little bit. So for that I'm sorry. If you accept that good stuff. If not, then I guess we both get to go **** ourselves.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Already forgotten... water under the bridge.

Only hardon I have at the moment is due to the post I just made in the long guns forum.

[~Emily~]

If she was innocent, then so what, good for her, there would be no problems. But she was acting strange...

Peace. I did not say what you did was good or bad. I just like to think about incidents like that from all angles. It makes me wonder what I would have done.

[Guest db99wj]

Holy crap, try to get some work done and all of this.

I don't have much time to respond, due to work..but here a quick response.

There are different views on what I should have done, and hindsight is 20/20. I respect those differences in opinion and I am fine with my vision.

A description of a car that is just the make, "a dark 4 door Volvo" will not get any response in a metropolitan area of around a million people. The police said Friday night at the break in that without a complete description, tag number if possible, there is nothing they can do. I would be hard for them if not impossible to send an extra patrol in Memphis on a Saturday night with minimal information. There was no "confrontation" during the whole thing, I approached her with my window down before things got really weird. I was seeing if she needed any help. My suspicion was not very high until this point. I am not one to be shy or not helpful, If I see someone in need, I will see what I can do, with many exceptions, at first this was no exception. So no confrontation up until the point that I had my window down, and as I mentioned in a subsequent post, I waved a friendly type wave, back and forth type, with a smile on my face. When she turned her head away and backed away, my suspicion level rose she acted strangly. I got the information I needed and as soon as I did, turned off, we had not gone probably a 100 yards, there was a truck between us on the main road too (I throw this in to state that I was not tailgating her, flashing my lights on an off, I did once so I could get the model and last 3 of the license plate number, honking, cussing, spinning tires. Also It is not like I went and jumped into my car and chased after her initially, I was already leaving my house.

I like my neighborhood, I know or have met everyone on my street, multiple times, my kids play on the street, I spend a lot of time outside on that street. I look out for my neighbors, my neighbors look out for me. When something is not right, I will see if I can help. We had a storm a few years ago, we all helped each other get limbs and crap off each others houses. I do not and will not apologize or admit wrong doing in trying to protect my little block that I have a home on. I will not stand by and turn the other way, because something is happening 4 houses down from me. I could have gotten in my car, and went on about my business, because it didn't concern my safety or my families safety, but if i would have come back and the Tate's, a retired couple along with their disable son were robbed, beaten or killed, that would be horrible and I couldn't stand myself for "not doing anything".

Dang, I write too much, I am getting back to work, ding, I'm done...Oh, that reminds me of the burger king, fries are done Song. ....

[Guest bkelm18]

I say, to each their own. If you want to stand up to possible criminals, then do it. If not, then don't. Agree to disagree. Pretty simple, eh?

[Guest Verbal Kint]

STFU and GTFO. No one asked you!

[Guest bkelm18]

STFU and GTFO. No one asked you!

I'd make a snide comment but you'd just twist it around and allude to my gay Navy service. As usual.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

At least you're admitting you had a "gay Navy service". Finally coming out?

[Guest bkelm18]

At least you're admitting you had a "gay Navy service". Finally coming out?

.....

[Guest db99wj]

I say, to each their own. If you want to stand up to possible criminals, then do it. If not, then don't. Agree to disagree. Pretty simple, eh?

STFU and GTFO. No one asked you!

I'd make a snide comment but you'd just twist it around and allude to my gay Navy service. As usual.

At least you're admitting you had a "gay Navy service". Finally coming out?

.....

On a scale of 1-10 in hijacking I give this a 9. It would have been a 10 but the timing was off and need to hit earlier today. This made me laugh out loud literally.

[Fallguy]

Just to a little. One does not have to be a LEO to enforce laws. TN Law allows private citizens to make a arrest as well. Even use all necessary force (short of deadly force, which can still be used if it becomes a self-defense situation) to affect the arrest.

If you would rather wait for or allow those whose job it is take care of things...fine, but because others don't doesn't mean they did anything wrong, just something you wouldn't have.

[Guest db99wj]

Just to a little. One does not have to be a LEO to enforce laws. TN Law allows private citizens to make a arrest as well. Even use all necessary force (short of deadly force, which can still be used if it becomes a self-defense situation) to affect the arrest.

If you would rather wait for or allow those whose job it is take care of things...fine, but because others don't doesn't mean they did anything wrong, just something you wouldn't have.

Good post.

[Guest Ggun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallguy

Just to a little. One does not have to be a LEO to enforce laws. TN Law allows private citizens to make a arrest as well. Even use all necessary force (short of deadly force, which can still be used if it becomes a self-defense situation) to affect the arrest.

If you would rather wait for or allow those whose job it is take care of things...fine, but because others don't doesn't mean they did anything wrong, just something you wouldn't have.

Good post.

Except you weren't enforcing any laws... you were chasing a motorist through a residential neighborhood. The whole chase scene was put in motion through your unfounded belief that there was criminal activity on the part of the other motorist. If that lady or you would have run over a pedestrian you would be held liable.

[Fallguy]

[Guest db99wj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fallguy

Just to a little. One does not have to be a LEO to enforce laws. TN Law allows private citizens to make a arrest as well. Even use all necessary force (short of deadly force, which can still be used if it becomes a self-defense situation) to affect the arrest.

If you would rather wait for or allow those whose job it is take care of things...fine, but because others don't doesn't mean they did anything wrong, just something you wouldn't have.

Good post.

Except you weren't enforcing any laws... you were chasing a motorist through a residential neighborhood. The whole chase scene was put in motion through your unfounded belief that there was criminal activity on the part of the other motorist. If that lady or you would have run over a pedestrian you would be held liable.

Not going to type out a dissertation on this....again.

We never made it past the speed limit, I was not spinning tires, I was not tailgating her, IT WAS NOT A CHASE SCENE, NO ONE WAS EVER IN DANGER OF LOSING CONTROL.

Oh, what would you have done? I'm guessing you would turn the other way and ignore it and hope for the best, hope that the police protects your neighbors, and nothing bad happens. Well that is not me. I make no apologies for that. I look out for people, I look out for my neighbors and again, I make no apologies for that. All my neighbors on my block look out for each other, those that don't agree, don't move to my street.

[Punisher84]

Except you weren't enforcing any laws... you were chasing a motorist through a residential neighborhood. The whole chase scene was put in motion through your unfounded belief that there was criminal activity on the part of the other motorist. If that lady or you would have run over a pedestrian you would be held liable.

Do you actually read the other posts?