Who knows about solar?

[Dolomite_supafly]

I am talking with someone who is a reseller and what he is telling me doesn't make any sense.

So who here is familiar with solar setups?

I might even pay you to setup what I am wanting.

[MacGyver]

Solar is in a very specific place right now where all of the resellers are really only interested in doing grid tie-ins and sellbacks to the power companies.  If you're looking for something outside of that very specific criteria, you're going to have to really work to find someone who'll work with you.  

 

I think that's why most of the off-grid guys end up doing it all themselves.

[Dolomite_supafly]

So here is what I am wanting. I will have 2-4 12V deep cycle batteries and the related equipment to charge those.

What I plan on doing if the power goes off on a semi permanent basis is this. Cut the power at the main breaker as well as all the individual breakers. I will unplug everything in the house and remove all 110V light bulbs. Then I will wire in the 12V LED light panels into the existing light fixtures. After that I will plug the battery bank into an outlet then flip the breakers needed to connect the parts of the house where I want lights to 11V power. For lights I will use 12V automotive LED light panels. They are cheap and provide plenty of light and seem like they will run forever. Basically I want to ensure I am never without light again.

I will not be running 110V devices, just lights in the form of 12V automotive lights. And the lights are very, very low draw.

I tested the LED panel by connecting it to a standard 9V battery. After 18 hours the LED lights was still bright so I know the draw is small.

I will put a 5 or 10 amp fuze between the battery and household wiring to safeguard anything.

What the reseller is telling me is 12V is dangerous with 110V wiring in my house. My house uses 12 and 10 gauge wiring.

I get that the amps on a 12v battery is more than a typical home but if it has a fuze well below what the wiring can handle them what is dangerous?

I will also use the system to charge flashlights, small batteries, laptops and cell phones but they will be charged directly off the battery using an inverter.

In order for the amps to be high enough to cause a problem it must have a device on the circuit that needs a lot of amps and those little LED panels just won't do that.

[peejman]

Somebody here did something similar for a camper/hunting shack a while back. 

 

I understand the salesman's hesitation with 12V.  Plugging a bank of batteries into your house creates the potential for a massive over-current situation.  If something shorts out, the wire will melt in a blink and could easily start a fire you can't put out.   As long as you understand the risks and mitigate them with appropriate fuses (as you've mentioned), it should be fine.  But I doubt you'll find a pro willing to accept that risk so I suspect DIY'ing it will be your only option. 

[kcruisin]

I'm not and electrician, but I'm familiar with Ohms law. A/C and D/c is apples and oranges. I wouldn't try to use the same wiring. Low current D/C looses amps too fast while traveling on a wire, that causes heat.
I've got a 400w emergency solar system. I run a TV and computer on it all the time. I think the battery bank alone, is going to cost more than I'll profit from it. But, I'm glad to have it.
I convert to 110v and run separate house-hold wiring (romex), I've got 110v LEDs mounted in there.

I think you should consider a 110 inverter. Look at the proper wire you would need to run 12 volts more than 25 feet. You'd need to start with a giant wire, and you'd still loose power and make some heat before you get to the appliance.

You also need a Charge Controller. If you're going to use the system all the time, The MPPT type is worth the extra money. Most Charge Controllers will alloy to pull a 12v system separately.

The battery-bank size is the critical number on a system. When you find out what that is, you'll know the rest of the story. Edited April 29, 2016 by kcruisin

[Caster]

I tried a couple cheap set ups.  They were lousy.  Found out real quick you can't just attach panels to batteries and run with it.  The panel must match the batteries.  Too much battery is just as bad as too much panel.  Balance is key for success.  Getting good stuff that will actually work when you need it is still very pricey.  

[thundersnow]

At minimum you'll need a charge controller for the batteries. That will go a long way!

[jgradyc]

What I plan on doing if the power goes off on a semi permanent basis is this...

You might want to rethink this. If the power goes off and stays off in a major SHTF situation, lights at night will be like a beacon to your home.

 

To the clueless masses, it says you have stuff and they'll show up at your door asking for help. To the bad guys, it says you're prepared and might have lots of other stuff they want to take from you.  

Edited April 29, 2016 by jgradyc

[Dolomite_supafly]

I have got all the equipment sorted out, if I want to go with that setup.

 

As far as a SHTF situation I will have the windows covered long before I turn on any lights. I am also in a remote area that people would not normally come to. It is not seen by any other roadway other than right in front of my house.

 

I was just talking about the feasibility of using the existing wiring as the go between rather than run wires.

 

BTW, the LED panels I am going to use are as bright as any 60W incandescent bulb I have ever seen. A single 9V battery will run one of those LED panels for at least 18 hours. I cut it off after that because at that point it did not look any dimmer. Because of that I know it doesn't take much to run them.  I have bought them before on a whim and they are bright enough to easily read ANYWHERE in a room with a single one facing the ceiling.

 

Maybe I just need to run a small, very low amperage battery and recharge it as it runs out. Not an automotive battery but something a lot smaller that has ZERO chance of shorting out the household wiring. And if that is the case I have plenty of panels to charge something like that.

 

The ONLY thing that will be run inside the house will be the 12V LED light panels.

 

These are the panels I am talking about.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281667478397?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Dolomite_supafly]

Maybe a battery like this:

http://www.batterysharks.com/12-Volt-5-Amp-Security-Alarm-Battery-p/12v-5ah-alarm_b12-5.htm?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Bing_Shopping&utm_term=1100400548674&utm_content=Wheelchair%20Batteries

I am a dummy when it comes to electrical crap but 5 Amps at 12 volts does not seem anywhere near strong enough to burn up a 10 or 12 gauge wiring.

 

Again, all I am wanting is light. Nothing more.

[bersaguy]

I had my son in law puy led lighting on my Skeeter Bass boat last Winter and I was shocked to see how much light those LED light strips can produce. If I can find pictures of the boat lit up I will post them. These are 12 volt lights and we decided to test them for draw on the 12 volt boat battery to see how long they would last at night. They were just as bright on night 5 as they were on night 1 and they were running all day also. Now if I can find the pictures they do have different colored lights but the only ones we had lit for the test was the white lights.

[bersaguy]

I found the pictures of the Boat and spoke with Son In law and he said he tested how long it would take for all the lights to drain the one 12 volt battery. He said he left them on for almost 7 days, day and night and on the 7th night they were still very bright but you could see a difference. Now that is also taking into effect the 12 volt battery was fully charged but is also taking into the fact the Battery is also 3 years old too.

 

 [URL=http://s218.photobucket.com/user/softbaitmaker/media/Skeeter%20under%20the%20lights/20150504_213441_zpsup7zthcq.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[URL=http://s218.photobucket.com/user/softbaitmaker/media/Skeeter%20under%20the%20lights/20150504_213242_zpshvw7spzi.jpg.html][/URL]

 

 

[URL=http://s218.photobucket.com/user/softbaitmaker/media/Skeeter%20under%20the%20lights/20150504_213225_zpsaygam7z4.jpg.html][/URL]

[Dirtshooter]

DS, I am no expert but I would recommend just running some 14 gauge wire directly from the battery to the lights with a switch if you like. I wouldn't tie into the house wiring at all. I am planning on a small solar setup with a inverter to go to 110 volt AC to run a few small appliances occasionally and recharge my cordless tool batteries. I got to thinking  one day when the power had went off just what I would miss the most if it never came back on. Answer is ice and recharging my cordless tools. I have become very dependent on the little boogers as I have grown older.

[RED333]

http://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/design-installation/ask-experts-12-volt-power

 

For just light, just make a light stand with a battery in the base.

[kcruisin]

Maybe a battery like this:
I am a dummy when it comes to electrical crap but 5 Amps at 12 volts does not seem anywhere near strong enough to burn up a 10 or 12 gauge wiring.
 
Again, all I am wanting is light. Nothing more.

If you're going to use a small, inexpensive battery like that, maybe you should get one for each panel. Or one for two panels that are close together. The big deal is to keep the wires as short as possible.

That small battery is still big enough to start a fire in a second. Plugging a battery in a house circuit would be as scary as letting a baby play with a loaded gun.
I hope I get some seconds on that.

[Dolomite_supafly]

You guys have convinced me. I will make a separate setup for solar.

[Wingshooter]

I would keep the AC and DC systems seperate. In addition to the safety concerns, keeping them seperate will allow you to use your DC system routinely to check it's function and enjoy it's benefits without going to the effort of altering your existing AC circuits.

I plan to install a solar/battery system in the house we are about to build. It will sit on the top of a hill in the middle of 35 wooded acres, so it will be a secluded location. I want to have a bank (or banks) of batteries with a couple of inverters that can power a small refrigerator, coffee maker, emergency radio and a fan. I also want to be able to charge my handheld HAM radio, cell phone, rechargable flashlights and lanterns, and cordless drill (good one Dirtshooter). I also want to have some LED lights like you linked to direct wired to a battery bank installed in the kitchen and living room.


Good thread :up: Edited April 30, 2016 by Wingshooter

[Dolomite_supafly]

Something unexpected that I found out that works well as an area light are those decorative yard lights. We have done that are still working great after 2-3 years in all kinds of weather. Don't remove the battery safety and they should store for a long time.

[Dolomite_supafly]

But I still have the wiring issue unless I run separate lines again. Now that I know it can't be done the way I wanted I will change how I plan to do it.

Rather than run wires I think it might be easier to use batteries and the LED panel at the same location. Maybe make some lamps and use the LED panels, original switch and batteries. They will not be just left in so the batteries should last a while.

I know the world would change drastically for this to happen but I want to keep done sort of normalcy if it happens. A long term power outage is one of those things most people are not prepared for. I bet the average person cannot produce light a week after they loose power.

I am considering buying a solar powered freezer set it up so it is self sufficient. Just something that can store food.

[TNWNGR]

Have you looked at propane powered referigators and freezers? Those or a combo refrigator/freezer along with a propane pwered generator and large propane tank will keep you going for several weeks. Using the seperate solar for lighting is a good ideal but a battery bank with seperate wiring set ups will work with the generator too. You can power a TV, washer, computer, fans and recharge tools.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I prefer solar as it does not require storage of fuel.

 

I think I have an easily doable plan that can be done on the cheap as well. Or at least the lighting setup will be cheap with a capital "C". 

 

After I get over my surgery I will start working on things like this and start posting pictures.

[kcruisin]

That's a good point, TNWNGR, I've heard of people running a small fridge occasionally on a battery bank.
I don't think it's feasible to run a big motor or compressor on a battery bank, like a freezer or A/C.

Keep in mind; using a 12v supply, you can use the amps until the battery gets pretty low.
A 110v motor is going to run hot and smoke if it doesn't get all the power it wants. Never run an extension cord too small or too long when you power a motor.
Most inverters will shut-down around 11 or 10 volts, so you can only get about 3-4 useful volts from the bank using an inverter.

[TripleGGG]

Great information. Now this is one more thing to add to my to do list. Edited April 30, 2016 by ggwilde

[nightrunner]

Great information here but don't overlook the old or manual way of doing things. Could be simpler than an alternative energy source. Using a washboard and clothesline could be easier than trying to rig up a solar system to power a washing machine and dryer, just as an example. Oil lamps to supplement daylight aren't so bad either.

[Dolomite_supafly]

We are ONLY interested in lights.