Tree identification

[JAB]

Okay, as much as it pains me to admit - and as much as I wish otherwise - I am not all that great at identifying tree species.  I know what the 'basic' leaves look like on the most common trees (oak, maple, hickory, etc.)  I know that if it has acorns it is an oak, if it has hickory nuts it is a hickory and obvious things like that.  I can identify a pine tree pretty easily (I think most folks can - although I probably couldn't tell you what species of pine it is when it comes to making pine needle tea and the like), etc. but am usually at a loss with other species or even with less common variations within the more common species.  So, I am wondering three things:

 

1.  Are there any folks on TGO who have the background to be considered SMEs when it comes to tree identification, particularly from pictures of leaves, etc.?

 

2.  Would those folks be willing to participate in a possibly long-running thread where those of us with less tree identification skills and knowledge could post pics of leaves (or the tree, bark, etc.) to get help in identifying various tree species?

 

3.  What resources would those 'in the know' recommend - both electronic and in print - for clearly and concisely identifying tree species in Tennessee (and, specific to me, at least, in East Tennessee?)

 

I have always been interested in such things but am becoming more interested in them as I become more interested in things like cooking over an open fire with 'gathered' wood.  I recently took a week off from work and spent most of it digging a fairly sizeable 'fire pit' in my yard and setting up an outdoor cooking area complete with a hanging grill, pot hangers, a place to cook in a frying pan, etc. and even an oven.  I had my nephew weld me some pot stands out of a few railroad spikes so that I can use 'regular' cast iron pots the way you would use a Dutch oven.

 

I have been 'in' to smoking meats for some time, now and can usually tell one kind of wood that I have for smoking from another.  However, those are larger pieces that are cut up so that I can see the wood inside and also I already know what kinds of wood I have in my smoking wood pile at any, given time so that narrows things down a lot.  For this kind of cooking, I am wanting to do more of a 'campfire style' cooking where I gather smaller pieces of dead or fallen wood, just as if I were camping, etc.  To that end, I'd like to have a better idea of the types of wood I am picking up.  I don't think there are very many truly poisonous woods around where I live but there are some woods that impart a better flavor than others (while things like pine can burn well for just a fire but often produce a lot of dark, heavy smoke and are no good for cooking.)

 

To get things started, here are a couple of pics of leaves from trees right in my yard:

 

This first one looks sort of like some pictures of white oak that I have found but not exactly.  Is this some type of oak or something else, entirely?

 

 

The second one I think is a 'chestnut oak', at least according to the pics I found online.  Is that correct?

 

 

 

[bud]

.

Edited June 18, 2016 by bud

[JAB]

Thanks!

[Jonnin]

I am not aware of any toxic trees in the USA. 

 

for flavor, its generally considered OK to use any "hard" wood.  Smoke is more or less smoke.  Cherry, for example, isn't going to give your food a sweet cherry taste -- it gives it a smoky taste same as oak or anything else.  A lot of places that sell the chips make much of what type of wood it is, but they all taste like smoke to me.

 

It will smoke a bit more if fresh cut.   I kind of like that -- I want a strong smoked flavor on my stuff.   Dry wood burns better and smokes less.

[BrasilNuts]

I've been doing a lot of tree cutting on our property for deer habitat, I've found this PDF very useful.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/twra/attachments/treeidguide.pdf Edited April 28, 2016 by BrasilNuts

[Chazmr]

That PDF is very helpful.

Thanks!

I've been doing a lot of tree cutting on our property for deer habitat, I've fond this PDF very useful.

https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/twra/attachments/treeidguide.pdf

[Randall53]

I know someone that supplies wood to BBQ restaurants and some of them will take either oak or hickory. I can't tell the difference in the flavor of the meat myself.

[TripleGGG]

Great thread for those of us who are tree challenged. My wife can name every tree and bird. Maybe I can gain a little ground. Lol

[xjsnake]

Dude you need the leafsnap app...

 

Throw the leaf on a white piece of paper, take a pic and it identifies it for you.

[Trekbike]

My wife can name every tree and bird. Maybe I can gain a little ground. Lol

Yea, but can she name every part of an AR15 BCG? If not, she needs to change her priorites. :)

[monkeylizard]

I couldn't find anything good for the BCG, but this is a good guide for the rest of the parts.

 

[hipower]

I couldn't find anything good for the BCG, but this is a good guide for the rest of the parts.

 

 

Very Good! This would make a great worktable mat.

[JAB]

I am a smoked meat freak and actually can tell the difference in woods used to smoke meat.  I do like a good, heavy smoke flavor (I literally like pork ribs to be so smoky that they make my lips go numb) but don't like the smoke to completely overpower the meat.  For instance, red oak is great for beef because beef can stand up to the flavor of that smoke.  Red oak is okay for cuts of pork like butt roasts, shoulder and arm roasts but can be a little overpowering for smoking pork loin and especially for chicken if used as the 'one and only'.  Hickory is, of course, the one that lots of folks are crazy about although it is not my favorite - good, but not my favorite.  To me, it has a flavor profile similar to oak but lighter and with a little bit of sweetness.  Cherry is my favorite wood for all-around smoking use as it also is a little lighter than oak, has a bit of sweetness but imparts more of a 'depth' of flavor to the meat.  To me, things like apple and pear have a nice sweetness and are good to add in with other things to give a more complex smoke but - aside from maybe chicken or pork loin - the smoke they produce is a little 'weak' for most cuts to my tastes.  Those 'lighter' smoke woods can also be good for smoking fish.  Maple is probably second to cherry, for me.  Pecan is also a really good wood for smoking, especially if you mix in a little maple or some kind of fruit wood.  Walnut is good as an 'accent' flavor but not as a main smoke because it can have a bit of a bitter taste if too much of it is used.  Unlike red oak (for beef, anyhow), I don't like white oak as much for the 'main' or 'one and only' wood for smoking.  Poplar is technically a hard wood but I don't like it much for smoking.  Usually I like to use a blend of different hardwoods, including some fruit wood and/or maple if I have it and sometimes even throw in something different (like just a little walnut toward the end - tossing in something different toward the end of the smoking process is usually called a 'finishing smoke') for a twist.  Lately I have been mostly using pecan because I had access to a good supply of it (which is, unfortunately, running out.)

 

That is part of the reason I want to be able to identify these trees - because I can (at least sometimes) tell a difference in smoke flavors.  Honestly, I wouldn't be able to do it every time but I have impressed some mom and pop barbecue shop owners by identifying the woods they use simply from tasting their barbecue - sometimes even being able to pick out three or four different woods.  My ability to do that lessens as I get older, though.

 

Oh, and as far as an AR goes, well, I could tell you, "This is the trigger, this is the mag well, this is the bolt and that is the stock, foregrip and barrel."  Beyond that I am not making any promises (I don't own an AR and they have just never interested me all that much - wouldn't turn one down if it fell out of a tree, though!)

Edited April 28, 2016 by JAB

[enfield]

Audubon publishes at least 2 tree identification guides, for eastern and western trees.  I have the eastern one.

 

Edited to add - I find hickory to have a very strong smoke aroma.  It's probably similar to mesquite.

Edited April 28, 2016 by enfield

[Lumber_Jack]

I can identify most native trees. I have trouble with the ornamental yard stuff but even then I can usual deduce what it is. I would participate in any thread about trees and tree ID. There are three pictures that would help most.

1) picture of the leaf

2 picture of the tree trunk from a distance that the bark is clear but not too close.

3) where is the tree growing, especially if it's natural grown and not planted.


So the two trees you posted are

1) Post Oak

2) Chestnut Oak or Chinquapin. Most likely chestnut oak.

[peejman]

I am a smoked meat freak and actually can tell the difference in woods used to smoke meat.  I do like a good, heavy smoke flavor (I literally like pork ribs to be so smoky that they make my lips go numb) but don't like the smoke to completely overpower the meat.  For instance, red oak is great for beef because beef can stand up to the flavor of that smoke.  Red oak is okay for cuts of pork like butt roasts, shoulder and arm roasts but can be a little overpowering for smoking pork loin and especially for chicken if used as the 'one and only'.  Hickory is, of course, the one that lots of folks are crazy about although it is not my favorite - good, but not my favorite.  To me, it has a flavor profile similar to oak but lighter and with a little bit of sweetness.  Cherry is my favorite wood for all-around smoking use as it also is a little lighter than oak, has a bit of sweetness but imparts more of a 'depth' of flavor to the meat.  To me, things like apple and pear have a nice sweetness and are good to add in with other things to give a more complex smoke but - aside from maybe chicken or pork loin - the smoke they produce is a little 'weak' for most cuts to my tastes.  Those 'lighter' smoke woods can also be good for smoking fish.  Maple is probably second to cherry, for me.  Pecan is also a really good wood for smoking, especially if you mix in a little maple or some kind of fruit wood.  Walnut is good as an 'accent' flavor but not as a main smoke because it can have a bit of a bitter taste if too much of it is used.  Unlike red oak (for beef, anyhow), I don't like white oak as much for the 'main' or 'one and only' wood for smoking.  Poplar is technically a hard wood but I don't like it much for smoking.  Usually I like to use a blend of different hardwoods, including some fruit wood and/or maple if I have it and sometimes even throw in something different (like just a little walnut toward the end - tossing in something different toward the end of the smoking process is usually called a 'finishing smoke') for a twist.  Lately I have been mostly using pecan because I had access to a good supply of it (which is, unfortunately, running out.)

 

That is part of the reason I want to be able to identify these trees - because I can (at least sometimes) tell a difference in smoke flavors.  Honestly, I wouldn't be able to do it every time but I have impressed some mom and pop barbecue shop owners by identifying the woods they use simply from tasting their barbecue - sometimes even being able to pick out three or four different woods.  My ability to do that lessens as I get older, though.

 

Oh, and as far as an AR goes, well, I could tell you, "This is the trigger, this is the mag well, this is the bolt and that is the stock, foregrip and barrel."  Beyond that I am not making any promises (I don't own an AR and they have just never interested me all that much - wouldn't turn one down if it fell out of a tree, though!)

 

 

Great, now I'm hungry.  :drool:

 

I need to get my smoker out again.

[Lumber_Jack]

FYI Poplar is a Soft Hardwood and is generally not good for burning in any function. Other similar species are basswood, cucumber, buckeye etc. even red maple is a soft hardwood. Sugar Maple is hard hardwood.

[JAB]

Audubon publishes at least 2 tree identification guides, for eastern and western trees.  I have the eastern one.

 

Edited to add - I find hickory to have a very strong smoke aroma.  It's probably similar to mesquite.

 

Have never really thought of hickory being similar to mesquite.  Honestly, I have only ever used mesquite once - to smoke a beef brisket - so am not as familiar with it as with some, other woods.  I can say that the woods that are traditionally used for making chipotle (smoke-dried jalapeno peppers) are mesqite and/or pecan.  Since pecan is considered to be as 'traditionally right' for the job as mesquite I just sort of figured mesquite probably had a similar flavor profile to pecan.  Can't say for sure, though.

 

Oh, just as an aside, I have made chipotle on my smoker and I used pecan to do it.  I dry mine a little more than is usually 'traditional', though.  Most you see are kind of 'leathery' but I dry mine to the point that they can be crushed or ground to add into my spice blends.

[JAB]

FYI Poplar is a Soft Hardwood and is generally not good for burning in any function. Other similar species are basswood, cucumber, buckeye etc. even red maple is a soft hardwood. Sugar Maple is hard hardwood.

 

interesting.  Yeah, I have seen some pine wood that seemed harder than some poplar I have seen.  I knew that poplar was a 'soft hardwood' because of having worked a piece of it, before.  A now deceased friend of mine made treenware for years and he taught me to make some of it.  He also told me that poplar was considered to be a 'soft hardwood'.  I have made two platters - one out of poplar and one out of red oak.  The difference in difficulty of working those two was like night and day. 

 

You know, I wonder how cedar would work for campfire cooking.  I wouldn't want to slow smoke with it because I think it would be overpowering and give an 'off' taste with prolonged smoking.  That said, some people actually grill fish - particularly salmon - by lightly searing directly on the grill and then placing the fish on a wine or water soaked cedar plank over the heat to finish cooking.  In that case, they are going for having a hint of the cedar flavor in the fish so I wonder if maybe throwing just a small piece or two of cedar in the fire when grilling chicken or something would be good.  I also wonder if Eastern Red Cedar (which, to my understanding, isn't really a cedar at all but actually a type of juniper) is used for grilling planks or not.

Edited April 29, 2016 by JAB

[Lumber_Jack]

Don't forget about post #15, if you want any trees ID I need more context than just leaf pics.  
 

Eastern Red Cedar and Western Red Cedar are not technically Cedars but are considers such.  Eastern Red is Juniperus virginiana and Western Red is Thuja Pilcast, more of a Cypress.   The native Americans in the upper northwest invented cooking on cedar planks using Western Red Cedar.  I believe most planks made here in America are Western Red.  I would think eastern red cedar would impart too much pugent flavor regardless if it was soaked or not.  I would stick to fence posts and closet linings and find something else to cook with.  

 

[JAB]

Okay, y'all, I am liking this thread and really appreciate all the identification help and wood discussion so far.  So, can anyone help me with identifying these:

 

 

 

 

Sorry, those aren't great pics but they were taken before I thought of starting a thread like this.  Those are some of the trees I cut down for the posts and cross-piece to make my grill/pot hanger stand for the fire pit.  I just took these pics in hopes that I could figure out what kinds of wood they are, later but I have had no luck on the 'Net, yet.  They were all harvested from my 'back yard' in Roane County.  They are two, different species and I almost wonder if the one in the bottom pic (which had really small leaves) might not be something that would be considered more of a 'shrub' or 'bush' rather than a tree, proper.  It was as tall as other trees with similar trunk sizes, though - not that height would mean it wasn't still a 'bush'.  Could the one above it be a sourwood?  Or maybe a hickory or ash?

 

Just as a fun point of interest, here is a pic of the fire pit and stand 'in action'.  I braised some venison that I had cut up into 'stew meat' sized cubes in a cast iron pot hanging over the fire.  The pot had a lid, I just took it off for this pic.  The venison was first browned with onion and then the cooking liquid - a combination of tomato paste, beef broth, one beer and some water - plus salt and pepper was added, the pot was covered and it was allowed to cook over the fire.  Kind of a 'country boy' version of beef bourguignon.  It was really, really good.  I must have accidentally deleted the pics I took of cooking a peach cobbler 'Dutch oven style' in another cast iron pot in the coals after I took the venison off.  I don't have an actual Dutch oven so I just sat the pot in the coals and then covered the pot with a cast iron skillet into which I also placed coals (to take the place of the dished in/rimmed lid that a real Dutch oven would have.)  I got that idea from a Dave Canterbury video on YouTube.

 

 

Notice the grill grid set up that I fixed up to hang between the pot hangers (the pots hang from lengths of paracord with pot hanger hooks that I carved out of sticks tied onto them.)  Also, notice the 'oven' in the background.  That thing is kinda special to me because my late father built it as a grill waaaayy back when I was in high school.  He worked at a place that did metal fabrication and similar things so when I say he built it I mean he built it - starting with sheet metal.  It was always a little too shallow to work well for a grill so I later got him to build another one out of an old, metal tank so we could grill on it using wood.  Both were still on the metal pipe posts to which he welded them in my mom's yard - I still use the deeper one, sometimes (I live next door to my mom.)  This one hadn't been used as a grill in years so I took it off the post and re-purposed it as an oven.  There is a brick-lined depression dug out under it for the fire/coals.  It works, too - I baked a pan of chocolate chip muffins in it as a 'proof of concept'  I also have a sink and hand-pump faucet out of an old, now unusable truck-top camper that he had.  I am planning to build an outdoor counter top and incorporate that sink and faucet into it.  I like the oven and the sink/faucet concept because I think they will be quite useful but also because, even though my dad died fourteen years ago, he is still helping me with my outdoor 'kitchen' setup.

Edited April 29, 2016 by JAB

[BrasilNuts]

Black Cherry.

[JAB]

Black Cherry.

 

You mean the one in the first, two pictures?  Cool.  So, now for another dumb question - does this, particular type of black cherry yield fruit and, if so, how mature do the trees have to be in order to have fruit on them?

 

I almost hate that I cut that one down before it got bigger.  Then, again, there are so many trees that size in the woods behind me (on our land) that they are going to have to be thinned out some so that the remaining ones can grow.  We are talking a thicket of trees of around that size so dense that it can be difficult to walk through there with several that are so close that two or three trees have grown together.  I am pretty sure a lot of them are maple (need to go back and look now that they have foliage on them) but there are others mixed in, as well.

 

That is another good reason to be able to identify these things - some of them I might want to let stand or I might want to use the bigger pieces for woodworking projects, etc. rather than just burning them in a cook fire.  Thanks!

Edited April 29, 2016 by JAB

[Lumber_Jack]

Yes those are wild black cherries.  Fruit can be produced on trees as young as 10, but in natural stands ages 30-100 are the fruit bearing years.  I'd say those were maybe 5-7 year old trees depending on site and amount of sunlight.  Black Cherry is an early successional species (think first to grow back after clearcut) and grow pretty fast in the early years.  

[JAB]

Yes those are wild black cherries.  Fruit can be produced on trees as young as 10, but in natural stands ages 30-100 are the fruit bearing years.  I'd say those were maybe 5-7 year old trees depending on site and amount of sunlight.  Black Cherry is an early successional species (think first to grow back after clearcut) and grow pretty fast in the early years.

Ah, thanks for the further info. Mom did sell off the timber from part of the land a few years back - before I moved (back) out here. In fact, I think it probably was seven or eight years ago or thereabouts so that makes sense. That is also the reason there is such a dense thicket of young trees.