Taxing the 2nd Amendment

[A.J. Holst]

The only true power guv'mint has is arresting law breakers. When there aren't enough law breakers, simply pass more laws so that it becomes impossible to know what is legal or illegal. The apply fluidity and flexibility to those laws for members of the new aristocracy of pull and influence.

[xsubsailor]

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[wjh2657]

Why is this even coming up now. Her remarks were made in 1993, 23 years ago. I see no new material on this, so why the issue? I don't doubt that she does have an anti-gun agenda, but we could discuss it more clearly if we used material a little newer than over 23 years old!

[A.J. Holst]

Why is this even coming up now. Her remarks were made in 1993, 23 years ago. I see no new material on this, so why the issue? I don't doubt that she does have an anti-gun agenda, but we could discuss it more clearly if we used material a little newer than over 23 years old!

My take is another reminder of how guv'mint will attempt to continue to restrict the 2A through any channel available.

Do you really think our friendly neighborhood Republican/Conservative aristocracy wants we critical thinkers armed?

To the Bastille with all of them!

[Scorpion Equalizer]

The real question for this POTUS election, are there enough gun owner votes to keep Hillary from being elected?

[hipower]

That doesn't even cover people like me who moved from another state and brought some firearms with him.  I am sure the state could track who has guns and who doesn't but I doubt they could track who has what at least without some additional legislation.

 

Thanks

Robert 

 

My thinking here is that people who have bought and own firearms are tallied and kept track of, whether or not individual firearms are noted on records. But I truly believe purchase records are kept at point of sale from an FFL. To easy to do.

Edited April 18, 2016 by hipower

[JohnC]

This shows how they track down recovered guns used in crimes:

 

https://www.facebook.com/HQATF/photos/pb.1484720555073149.-2207520000.1460955290./1702138529998016/?type=3&theater

 

Boxes, boxes and more boxes. "Following the gun" is not as glamorous - or as easy - as it seems on TV. 

Hundreds of firearm trace requests arrive at ATF’s National Tracing Center every day, with more than 370,000 in total arriving last year.

Comprehensive firearms tracing is the routine tracing of every crime gun recovered within a geographic area or specific law enforcement jurisdiction - you can find out more at https://www.atf.gov/firearms/national-tracing-center 
 

Edited April 18, 2016 by JohnC

[DaveTN]

The real question for this POTUS election, are there enough gun owner votes to keep Hillary from being elected?

Well sure, if everyone that owned a gun voted Republican. This election isn’t going to be about guns; it’s going to be about jobs and the economy. You have those that want to see our economy recover by helping business in this country grow, those that only care how much money the government is going to pay them each month, and those who simply don’t care or don’t vote. The second group is getting bigger all the time, getting the third group off their azz and to the polls is our only hope of beating Hillary.

[Ray Z]

http://personalliberty.com/taxpayer-advocate-warns-taxes-could-kill-the-2nd-amendment/

 

“The Left is now seeking to tax guns out of existence,” Norquist said. “The Second Amendment makes it difficult to legally ban guns, but Hillary has led the way to explaining you can achieve the same thing with high taxes.”

Clinton has passionately endorsed the implementation of a 25 percent across the board sales tax on firearms in addition to Obama administration attempts to raise the cost to legally sell firearms to $2,500.

“Under the Obama-Clinton model, the cost of selling your best friend a $400 shotgun will be $2,900,” said Norquist."

 

- K

You mean the existing ATF and state department tax on firearms is OK?

[K191145]

This shows how they track down recovered guns used in crimes:

 

https://www.facebook.com/HQATF/photos/pb.1484720555073149.-2207520000.1460955290./1702138529998016/?type=3&theater

 

Boxes, boxes and more boxes. "Following the gun" is not as glamorous - or as easy - as it seems on TV. 

Hundreds of firearm trace requests arrive at ATF’s National Tracing Center every day, with more than 370,000 in total arriving last year.

Comprehensive firearms tracing is the routine tracing of every crime gun recovered within a geographic area or specific law enforcement jurisdiction - you can find out more at https://www.atf.gov/firearms/national-tracing-center 
 

 

And that's guns only used in crimes? What % are those crime guns compared to the total number of guns in private possession in the U.S.?

[superduty]

Wouldn't shock me in the least if there is some kind of database out there. Between the background checks, financial records of both the individual and business, our own posting on sites such as this, I'm of the mind that collecting the raw data wouldn't be difficult. Organizing and analyzing it for a complete picture would be, but I wouldn't say a snapshot or sampling is out.

Analytically, this is known as 'big data', and it's big business right now.

[Oh Shoot]

The real question for this POTUS election, are there enough gun owner votes to keep Hillary from being elected?

 

The ownership isn't in general as concentrated by percentage in the states with the largest electoral votes save maybe for Texas, but even more pertinent, most gun owners aren't "activists" in the sense of gun freedom being a major voting issue, but fall into the "as long as I can keep some gun at home" or "as long as they don't take away my hunting rifle" groups.

 

- OS

Edited April 19, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[JayC]

The biggest one, the Naval Criminal Investigative Service - Law Enforcement Information Exchange.

 

Everytime a local police officer stops you, and runs the serial number on your otherwise legal firearm, the fact you had possession of that firearm is entered into the LinX database.  Along with a lot of other information, such as parking tickets and fender-benders.

 

Because the data in question is still owned by the law enforcement entity that enters it into LinX, it skirts around federal laws prohibiting the building of such databases since no money is spent at the federal level entering the data, and it's not owned by federal agencies in most cases.

 

Who do you think has this "database"?

[DaveTN]

The biggest one, the Naval Criminal Investigative Service - Law Enforcement Information Exchange.
 
Everytime a local police officer stops you, and runs the serial number on your otherwise legal firearm, the fact you had possession of that firearm is entered into the LinX database.  Along with a lot of other information, such as parking tickets and fender-benders.
 
Because the data in question is still owned by the law enforcement entity that enters it into LinX, it skirts around federal laws prohibiting the building of such databases since no money is spent at the federal level entering the data, and it's not owned by federal agencies in most cases.

Who enters the piece of information that's says who was in possession of the gun the Officer is running?

[btq96r]

Analytically, this is known as 'big data', and it's big business right now.

 

Yeah, I know, I was just breaking it down for the...let's call them the less technically inclined members of TGO. :)

[xsubsailor]

The biggest one, the Naval Criminal Investigative Service - Law Enforcement Information Exchange.

 

Everytime a local police officer stops you, and runs the serial number on your otherwise legal firearm, the fact you had possession of that firearm is entered into the LinX database.  Along with a lot of other information, such as parking tickets and fender-benders.

 

Because the data in question is still owned by the law enforcement entity that enters it into LinX, it skirts around federal laws prohibiting the building of such databases since no money is spent at the federal level entering the data, and it's not owned by federal agencies in most cases.

 Why would an officer be running the serial number if you were legally carrying ?

[nightrunner]

Why would an officer be running the serial number if you were legally carrying ?

Happens a lot with over zealous officers. Checking to see if it's stolen or not.

[K191145]

Happens a lot with over zealous officers. Checking to see if it's stolen or not.

 

I keep a copy of the receipt of both my Glock and SP101 in my wallet, it's got my name and the model and serial number, no need to run the serial number in any database.

[Jamie Jackson]

While I hate to see another "Panic buying frenzy", it will probably be inevitable. That said, it may well be prudent to pick up some of those items you have been waiting to purchase...

 

I saw the below linked off Drudge this morning. Thanks Kevin for kicking off the conversation. I know I'm looking to up my handloading components...we'll use them no matter what and they won't get any less expensive over the next few years.

 

http://www.atr.org/1000-gun-tax-pushed-role-model-states

 

While it is a fact that Hilary initially started speaking of the increased tax issue in 1993, the article sites 2016 examples and you can believe the Left is considering [u][b]any[/b][/u] measure to weaken our 2nd Amendment protected Rights...

 

from the linked article:

“The Second Amendment makes it difficult to legally ban guns, but Hillary has led the way to explaining you can achieve the same thing with high taxes.”

Edited April 19, 2016 by prag

[JayC]

Dispatch in most agency's.  In some that have connected computers in each patrol car, it's being entered in by the officers themselves.  LinX is a 2 way 'plugin' that grabs data and queries being entered into the system by dispatch/officers and creates events on the LinX database, but can also be queried automatically when entering in say a persons name, dob etc.  In most agency's setups it will grab just about anything that is entered into their local system and pass it along to LinX automatically.  Including if not disabled, parking tickets, and minor fender bender reports.

 

It's all done behind the scene, most of the IT staff in local agencies don't even understand the details of how it works.  I worked an 'incident' (employment related) a few years ago for a small local police department, and 'discovered' LinX during the course of the forensics work for them.  

 

Who enters the piece of information that's says who was in possession of the gun the Officer is running?

 

[JayC]

 Why would an officer be running the serial number if you were legally carrying ?

 

I keep a copy of the receipt of both my Glock and SP101 in my wallet, it's got my name and the model and serial number, no need to run the serial number in any database.

 

Unfortunately and illegally under state law, some departments (and a number of individual officers) have a policy of running the serial number of any firearm they come across, including those carried by HCP holders.  You should assume if they disarm you during an encounter they are running you firearms serial number, and 95+% chance that information will end up in the LinX database in an easy to query format. 

 

I have no clue if carrying a receipt will do a bit of good or not, some officers it might carry weight, my guess is most just see running the firearm as a check box they must tick every time they encounter somebody with a gun.

 

Truth is I doubt very few officers really understand that this information is being collected somewhere.

[polecat]

U.S.

lest you doubt her intentions......   HILLARY CLINTON MEETS WITH SANDY HOOK FAMILIES, VOWS TO PUSH FOR GUN CONTROL WITHIN SECOND AMENDMENT

BY MICHELE GORMAN  ON 4/21/16 AT 4:36 Pm

Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton listens during a discussion on gun violence prevention with family members of victims at the Wilson-Gray YMCA in Hartford, Connecticut, on April 21. She vowed to push for stronger gun-control legislation if she becomes president.ADREES LATIF/REUTERS

U.S.HILLARY CLINTONGUNSGUN LAWSGUN VIOLENCECONNECTICUT2016 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION

Surrounded by panelists who have been affected by gun violence, Hillary Clinton on Thursday promised Connecticut residents she would push for stricter firearms laws as president, just five days before the state’s primary.

The Democratic front-runner gathered for almost two hours at the Wilson-Gray YMCA in Hartford with relatives from gun-violence incidents, including families affected by the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown. The panel was held about 50 miles from where 20 first-graders and six educators were killed in the massacre on December 14, 2012.

“I am not here to make promises I can’t keep,” Clinton said. “I am here to tell you I will use every single minute of every day, if I’m so fortunate enough to be your president, looking for ways that we can save lives, that we can change the gun culture. It is just too easy for people to reach for a gun to solve their problems. It makes no sense.”

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“We can do this consistent with the Second Amendment. We can do this with the support of responsible gun owners, and that is exactly what we will do,” she added, to applause from the crowd.

Clinton, the Democratic front-runner who most recently won New York’s primary Tuesday, acknowledged that the gun lobby “is the most powerful lobby in Washington.”

“They have figured out how to intimidate elected officials at all levels who basically just stop thinking about this problem because they’re too scared to stand up to the [National Rifle Association (NRA)],” Clinton said.

She called for a national movement to fight gun violence and for the Sandy Hook massacre to be the object lesson for convincing a majority of Americans to remain in the movement to turn it into a voting issue.

“If anything else were killing 33,000 Americans a year, you can bet we would be fully mobilized, doing everything we possibly could to save lives,” she said.

Erica Smegielski, whose mother, Sandy Hook Elementary principal Dawn Hochsprung, died in the massacre, introduced Clinton, whom she called “my partner” in the fight. She said gun violence is “personal for Connecticut,” not only because of the Newtown massacre, but also because of the daily toll it takes on residents.

“Gun violence knows no bounds. I learned that the hard way,” Smegielski said, adding that the number of mass shootings are dwarfed by everyday gun violence, including individual murders, suicides and accidental deaths.

In a newly released Clinton ad, titled “My Mom,” Smegielski speaks about her mother.

“No one is fighting harder to reform our gun laws than Hillary. She reminds me of my mother: She isn’t scared of anything and that’s how I know that she is the person that can actually make a difference. That’s why I believe in her,” she says in the minute-long spot airing in Connecticut.

Connecticut not only is the state where the Newtown massacre occurred, but it also has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. Clinton thanked Governor Dannel Malloy, who was in attendance Thursday, for his leadership in pushing for stronger gun measures. In the months following the Newtown massacre, he signed into law a historic bill that requires universal background checks on all purchases, and added more than 100 firearms to the state’s existing ban on assault weapons. Last year, the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence ranked Connecticut second for enacting effective firearms measures.

Curbing gun violence has been one of Clinton’s main issues on the campaign trail. She has called for comprehensive gun background checks and repeatedly highlights her Senate vote against a 2005 law that provides general immunity to gun companies. Her opponent, Bernie Sanders, supported the legislation when he was a member of the House.

Sanders, the Vermont senator, faces mounting criticism on his gun-voting record, especially after his comments at recent debates and to the New York Daily News that gun companies shouldn’t be held responsible when a customer legally purchases a firearm then uses it in a crime. On the defensive, he has touted his D-minus rating from the NRA—which he says shows he is an enemy to the gun lobby—and rural connections to Vermont.

Clinton’s stop in Hartford Thursday came a week after a judge in Connecticut refused to throw out a lawsuit brought by 10 Sandy Hook families against three gun companies responsible for manufacturing, distributing and selling the Bushmaster AR-15 rifle, the weapon used in the shooting. The trial has been set for April 3, 2018.

At the most recent debate last week, the presidential hopeful was asked whether he owes the Sandy Hook victims an apology for defending gunmakers against the lawsuit. “No,” he said. “They have the right to sue, and I support them and anyone else who wants the right to sue.”

Smegielski has spoken out against Sanders’s comments on gun immunity. Mark and Jackie Barden, whose 7-year-old son, Daniel, died at Sandy Hook Elementary, also have called out Sanders. The two parents, who are involved in the lawsuit against the three gun companies, wrote an op-ed in The Washington Post to argue that their case isn’t about ending gun manufacturing in the United States. Rather, they said it’s about the dangers of entrusting the AR-15, a military-style assault weapon, to the general public. Jillian Soto, sister of Victoria Soto, a teacher killed at Sandy Hook Elementary, has called Sanders’s comments offensive, insensitive and disrespectful.

.@BernieSanders stop hiding behind your "D-" and start standing up for the American people. Also, please finish a sentence.

— Erica L Smegielski (@EricaSmegs) April 15, 2016

Other relatives of gun-violence victims have thrown their support behind Clinton, including the mothers of the late Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis, who were killed in separate incidents in Florida in 2012, and Gabrielle Giffords, a shooting survivor and former U.S. representative. Clinton has the backing from prominent leaders and outspoken gun-control activists in Connecticut, including U.S. Senator Chris Murphy and Congresswoman Elizabeth Esty.

Clinton on Wednesday campaigned in Philadelphia, where she participated in a discussion about gun violence with former Attorney General Eric Holder. Her daughter, Chelsea, started campaigning for her Wednesday, saying gun control is an issue that feels especially personal to her now that she is a mother.

Delaware, Maryland, Pennsylvania and Rhode Island also will hold Democratic and Republican primary elections Tuesday.

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