Carrying on a Motorcycle with no Permit

[scubaru]

I'm new to Tennessee and unfortunately don't have the time to get a Conceal Carry Permit. I travel for work 90% of the year so I'm not often home.  On top of that I'm only here for a year and will be relocated again by 2017.  The issue is I love to ride when I'm home however with living in Cordova and wanted to ride through Memphis, I'd really rather have my pistol with me.

 

From what I've gathered there was a revision to the castle doctrine claiming your vehicle as an extension of your property; granted the articles don't make much sense to me (39-17-1307 & 39-17-1308).  But from what I've read a weapon may be kept in a vehicle as long as the driver may legally posses the weapon.  It does not however state if the weapon should be holstered, kept closeby, loaded/unloaded, the weapon and ammunition split up. Nothing.  This then brings me to my motorcycle, I can't find anything that would allow me to legally keep a weapon on me on a motorcycle. I scowed the internet and finally found this forum. Perhaps someone can weigh in on this subject.

 

I was also told by a friend in the Memphis area that the weapon must in fact be loaded with one in the chamber, if i need to cock the weapon or load a clip its considered class 1 murder or premeditated. I'm a bit overwhelmed with all of this information.

 

Thanks guys!

[Fallguy]

See T.C.A. 55-8-181

 

55-8-181.  Rights and duties of motorcycle operator.

  Every person operating a motorcycle is granted all of the rights and is subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of any other vehicle under this chapter and chapter 9 of this title, except as to special regulations in this chapter and except as to those provisions of this chapter and chapter 9 of this title that by their nature can have no application.

 

Although it doesn't say it applies to Title 39, Chapter 13, to me it is saying a motorcycle rider has the same rights as the driver of a car.

[DaveTN]

A motorcycle is not excluded from “Motor Vehicle” in 55-1-103. (Castle Doctrine doesn’t have anything to do with this.) So you should be okay while on the bike.

The problem comes into play when you step off the bike. If you are carrying and you step off and approach the pump to get gas; you are carrying illegally. If the weapon is secured on the bike; you are okay.

The law does not address securing the weapon in a vehicle.

Your friend is wrong about loading the weapon. Tennessee only cares if you were justified in the use of deadly force. If you are; carry and possession laws do not apply. (Everything you do will be used against you in a criminal or civil trial)

I do not think you would have any problem having a properly secured loaded firearm on your bike and accessible. I do think you could have a problem if you are wearing it, a cop sees it, and wants to mess with you. Step off that bike and you are illegal.

[scubaru]

A motorcycle is not excluded from “Motor Vehicle” in 55-1-103. (Castle Doctrine doesn’t have anything to do with this.) So you should be okay while on the bike.The problem comes into play when you step off the bike. If you are carrying and you step off and approach the pump to get gas; you are carrying illegally. If the weapon is secured on the bike; you are okay.The law does not address securing the weapon in a vehicle.Your friend is wrong about loading the weapon. Tennessee only cares if you were justified in the use of deadly force. If you are; carry and possession laws do not apply. (Everything you do will be used against you in a criminal or civil trial)I do not think you would have any problem having a properly secured loaded firearm on your bike and accessible. I do think you could have a problem if you are wearing it, a cop sees it, and wants to mess with you. Step off that bike and you are illegal.

So the next question is what if I carry the weapon on myself, but before I step off I remove the clip and place it in my backpack or another place that is not easily accessible? Understandable I realize I'm not getting legal advice from the Internet.

[monkeylizard]

<<nevermind>>

Edited April 5, 2016 by monkeylizard

[jhc77]

So the next question is what if I carry the weapon on myself, but before I step off I remove the clip and place it in my backpack or another place that is not easily accessible? Understandable I realize I'm not getting legal advice from the Internet.

The firearm itself is what will get you in trouble. A loaded magazine on your person will not cause an issue, just a few more questions if you are away from your motorcycle. An officer might want to see what the magazine goes into though.
I'm guessing a lockable tank( but most being magnetic, I wouldn't store it there) or hard type saddle bag should suffice as secure.
I am not lawyer or close to it. Didn't sleep well either. Take it with a grain of salt.

[peejman]

So the next question is what if I carry the weapon on myself, but before I step off I remove the clip and place it in my backpack or another place that is not easily accessible? Understandable I realize I'm not getting legal advice from the Internet.

 

Gun unloaded and in the backpack should be ok. 

[10-Ring]

 
I was also told by a friend in the Memphis area that the weapon must in fact be loaded with one in the chamber, if i need to cock the weapon or load a clip its considered class 1 murder or premeditated. I'm a bit overwhelmed with all of this information.
 
Thanks guys!

This might be one of the best pieces of gun misinformation that I have ever heard. Where do people come up with this stuff?

[TripleDigitRide]

This might be one of the best pieces of gun misinformation that I have ever heard. Where do people come up with this stuff?

That sort of misinformation comes from someone who knows they don't have the answer, but their manhood would feel threatened if they dared to admit they don't know everything.

[monkeylizard]

Plus that's only true if you have Teflon-coated boolits.   :D

[mikegideon]

That sort of misinformation comes from someone who knows they don't have the answer, but their manhood would feel threatened if they dared to admit they don't know everything.

 

In other words, a dipshit.

[jgradyc]

There is no good solution for your scenario. Once you get off the bike, it's illegal to carry. If you put in a backpack/wherever, you are unarmed when you are most likely to need a weapon. If someone sees you put in in your backpack, it could be stolen. If you go back to your bike to get your weapon, you are no longer in an imminent threat situation. Lawyers could rip your defense apart. I'm not a lawyer, but if you leave a situation, get a gun and come back into it, that's a case for premeditated murder. 

 

You need to find a free Saturday and get your carry permit. 

[DaveTN]

So the next question is what if I carry the weapon on myself, but before I step off I remove the clip and place it in my backpack or another place that is not easily accessible? Understandable I realize I'm not getting legal advice from the Internet.

Now you are in a situation where the vehicle is not relevant. I don’t have access to case law from this state, but the test is generally “readily accessible”. If you have a gun and a loaded magazine in your backpack (or anywhere else) it’s the Officer call and then ultimately the DA and the courts whether or not you are carrying with the intent to go armed. Being a test dummy is not good even when the charges are dropped. (I know that because I have been there and have the T-shirt)

This state has no “Duty to retreat”; so talk of premediated murder is silly unless you murder someone. If you have to return to your bike to get your gun because you or someone else is in danger of death or great bodily harm; you are fine. Just remember no cares what you believed; it’s what a reasonable person would believe (a judge or jury).

If you were having to get off the bike a bunch, I would carrying without a round in the chamber, pop the mag and leave it with the bike and put the empty gun in your backpack; you can carry an empty gun unless it’s in a specifically prohibited place. It’s not the best way to carry, but the only good way to carry in this state is with a permit.

[10-Ring]

The more I've thought about it... op, please find the time to get your permit and familiarize yourself with the law, or don't carry at all, or as a third option have the time and money to defend yourself in court and make a good test case for gun owners. I hate to sound harsh but sometimes we (gun owners) are our own worst enemy, I just can't in good faith tell someone who has not familiarized themself with the state laws to try to skirt the law and knowingly enter a legal gray area.

[Oh Shoot]

....you can carry an empty gun unless it’s in a specifically prohibited place.

 

Only unconcealed, as per letter of the law.

 

"It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 (illegal carrying/possession) if the possession or carrying was:

 

Of an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;"

 

- OS

Edited April 6, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[xtriggerman]

The more I've thought about it... op, please find the time to get your permit and familiarize yourself with the law, or don't carry at all, or as a third option have the time and money to defend yourself in court and make a good test case for gun owners. I hate to sound harsh but sometimes we (gun owners) are our own worst enemy, I just can't in good faith tell someone who has not familiarized themself with the state laws to try to skirt the law and knowingly enter a legal gray area.

+1
As a rider for 40 years now, you can never know when its your time to unexpectedly part ways with your wheels while in motion. Its just not a good idea to pack permitless on a bike.

[jgradyc]

Now you are in a situation where the vehicle is not relevant. I don’t have access to case law from this state, but the test is generally “readily accessible”. If you have a gun and a loaded magazine in your backpack (or anywhere else) it’s the Officer call and then ultimately the DA and the courts whether or not you are carrying with the intent to go armed. Being a test dummy is not good even when the charges are dropped. (I know that because I have been there and have the T-shirt)

This state has no “Duty to retreat”; so talk of premediated murder is silly unless you murder someone. If you have to return to your bike to get your gun because you or someone else is in danger of death or great bodily harm; you are fine. Just remember no cares what you believed; it’s what a reasonable person would believe (a judge or jury).

If you were having to get off the bike a bunch, I would carrying without a round in the chamber, pop the mag and leave it with the bike and put the empty gun in your backpack; you can carry an empty gun unless it’s in a specifically prohibited place. It’s not the best way to carry, but the only good way to carry in this state is with a permit.

Dave, you're misinterpreting my comment. If he gets into any threatening situation, leaves that situation, gets his gun and goes back into that situation and shoots someone dead, that fits the definition of premeditation.

 

The prosecution would argue why didn't you get on your bike and ride away once you were out of the situation. The perps thug buddies would argue that you charged out to get your gun and came back.

 

Maybe he could argue he was defending someone else. I would argue that this would be a very bad situation to be in that could have been avoided by getting a permit in the first place. 

[DaveTN]

Dave, you're misinterpreting my comment. If he gets into any threatening situation, leaves that situation, gets his gun and goes back into that situation and shoots someone dead, that fits the definition of premeditation.
 
The prosecution would argue why didn't you get on your bike and ride away once you were out of the situation. The perps thug buddies would argue that you charged out to get your gun and came back.
 
Maybe he could argue he was defending someone else. I would argue that this would be a very bad situation to be in that could have been avoided by getting a permit in the first place.

Obviously getting a permit would be a good fix; but it doesn’t fit what he wants to do right now. I was commenting because he wanted to know the law; not opinions of what could happen. Two posts mention premeditated murder with absolutely no legal qualifiers. We do not have a duty to retreat. If someone tries to rob him or attack him he can return to his motorcycle to get whatever he needs to defend himself, and as long as that threat is still immediate; he can shoot them. If he walks up and sees someone pointing a gun at the clerk and goes back to his motorcycle, gets whatever he needs and walks in and shoots the robber to death; he’s fine.

Neither situation is “premediated murder”. The only way he will be charged with murder is if he shot someone to death that was not a threat to him or someone else; and an HCP won’t make a bit of difference in that. Going to a safe area, grabbing a weapon and returning to save others is not premeditated murder.

[jgradyc]

No problem. I understand your position.

[scubaru]

Wow this thread blew up!  So the more I think about it it does look like my only real option is to get the conceal carry permit. Seems like a waste of $120 but I guess that's where we are right now. I've been out riding the past few days but have yet to take my gun with me.  I went into downtown Memphis on Saturday and felt fine but I know the more I start to adventure out and the later in the night I ride the more unsettling scenarios I'll find myself in.  Things were a lot simpler in Pennsylvania, haha.

[erice]

I would highly suggest a carry permit. Range USA offers a two-day night class that seems to fit more people's schedules.

[monkeylizard]

Keep in mind that in TN it's a handgun carry permit, not a concealed carry permit. With the permit you can carry open or concealed, your choice.

[tnhawk]

It would be wise to avoid memphis untill you obtain a permit.

[Roche]

Do you have a Pennsylvania CCW?  If so, I'm thinking reciprocity may cover you while temporarily working in TN.

[robertand]

does anybody know if the castle rules apply to horseback? is a horse considered a vehicle?