Can a Muslim be a good American

[Ron_TN]

Can a Muslim be a good American?

 

This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for 20 years. The following is his reply:

 

Theologically - no, because his allegiance is to Allah.

 

Religiously - no, because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Qur'an 2:256).

 

Scripturally - no, because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Qur'an.

 

Geographically - no, because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

 

Socially - no, because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

 

Politically - no, because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders) who teach the annihilation of Israel
and the destruction of America, the great Satan.

 

Domestically - no, because he is instructed to marry four Women and beat his wife when she disobeys him (Qur'an 4:34).

 

Intellectually - no, because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

 

Philosophically - no, because Islam, Muhammad, and the Qur'an does not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy

and Islam cannot co-exist! Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

 

Spiritually - no, because when we declare 'one nation under God,' we are referring to the Christian's God and not Allah.

 

Therefore, after much study and deliberation, perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both 'good' Muslims and good Americans/Canadians; they cannot and will not integrate into the great melting pot of America. .The religious war is bigger than we know or understand. Muslims everywhere have said they will destroy us from within."

Edited April 3, 2016 by Ron_TN

[Mike.357]

I don't see how it is possible as stated in the thread title.

[AtomicRooster]

Negative Ghostrider.

[btq96r]

Funny, I thought to be a good American, all you had to do was follow our laws.  Guess all that goes out the window when the Islamic boogeyman is involved.

[Grand Torino]

Funny, I thought to be a good American, all you had to do was follow our laws.  Guess all that goes out the window when the Islamic boogeyman is involved.

The Islamic boogeyman is the only one that hates you and what you stand for enough to kill you....the other boogeymen...not so much.

[suspiciousmind]

There are a lot of "Church only on Easter and Christmas" Muslims out there that don't pose a threat.

[tercel89]

A wolf remains a wolf even if it has not eaten your sheep.

[DaveTN]

Funny, I thought to be a good American, all you had to do was follow our laws.  Guess all that goes out the window when the Islamic boogeyman is involved.

I know plenty of people that obey the laws, they are Americans; I wouldn’t call them “good” Americans.

I’m sure there are Muslims in this country that mean us no harm. I am also sure there are Muslims that want to kill us for no reason other than religious beliefs. It’s just a warning sign. But then we continually ignore warning signs from home grown American non-Muslims that want to kill us.

[hipower]

Ok, my views are pretty much as stated by the op's post. One thing most of this country cannot seem to grasp is the the doctrine of Muhammad states that all's fair, and I mean ALL, in dealing with the infidels. The infidel is one not of the Muslim followers. And we, as the Great Satan, are #1 on the long term list of to-be conquered lands.

 

This allows, no says and commands. that lying, cheating, deception, killing, and enslavement is the method to deal with all infidels. Meaning us. Anyone who does not accept the will of allah. (I will not capitalize it, because allah is not our God.)

 

The end goal of the muslim faith is the enslavement or destruction of all that does not conform and submit to Muhammad and Shariah law and government.

 

It is that simple. You can twist it around anyway you wish. You can take your touchy-feely liberal thoughts and suggestions and scream them to the high heavens and it will not change a thing.

 

The goal of Muhammadism is the enslavement and destruction of all that is not muslim.

 

Done. That's my opinion, and some will not agree. That is your prerogative.

Edited April 3, 2016 by hipower

[56FordGuy]

Of course, the very same thing could be said for Christians. 

 

Theologically, No. Their allegiance is to Jesus and not the Constitution.

 

Religiously, No. No other religion is accepted. Jesus said "I am -the- way, -the- truth and -the- light. As pastors love to point out, he didn't say one of many. 

 

Scripturally, No. His allegiance is to Christianity, God's laws and church doctrine. I remember hearing numerous pastors preach about following God's law, even when it conflicts with the laws of the world. Kim Davis was an example of this, breaking the law because of what she believed.

 

Geographically*, No.  His allegiance is to Israel, for Yahweh is the God of Israel. Many Christians make a pilgrimage to the holy land every year, and a large portion of Christianity takes it's marching orders directly from The Vatican. 

 

Socially, No. Christianity teaches to be in the world, but not of the world. That's a fairly clear directive that Christians should 'maintain their distance' so to speak. 

 

Politically, No. Again, Christians are instructed to follow God's law above all others. When they vote to enact legislation based of the Bible, they are forcing their religious beliefs and morals onto everyone. While they haven't yet required people to pray the sinner's prayer or go to jail, forcing others to behave in accordance with your interpretation of religious right and wrong by making it law is conversion by force, no different than forcing someone to convert at gunpoint. 

 

Domestically, No. Christians are instructed that adulterous wives, heretics, blasphemers, etc should be stoned to death. They are also allowed to keep slaves, but instructed to be good masters. 

 

Intellectually, No. Christians cannot accept the Constitution because it does not follow God's laws. It is based on principles that can be found in the Bible, but can also be found in the texts used by a wide variety of religions and societies all the way back to Hammurabi's Code. Christians feel they must control the country by limiting everything not specifically spelled out in the Constitution in accordance with their religion. 

 

Philosophically, No. Christianity does not allow freedom of religion, as it says it is the only way. Christians have fought numerous battles to have their religious symbols placed in government buildings. 

 

Spiritually, No. The Pledge of Allegiance was originally written to say "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all". Christians were not okay with such a secular pledge and in 1954 managed to have the words "Under God" added to it. 

 

 

 

*Geographically? How can anyone be a geographically good anything?  :bowrofl:

[kcruisin]

Good post Ron, that's why I carry a 1911.
I'm not worried about thugs, I try to stay out of their territory.

Islam has proclaimed death to America and Israel all of my lifetime.
Muslims have invaded America and my territory.

I recognize my enemy, I'm proud to be an Infidel.
I think it's clear that WW III is going to be about islam,
it'll be based around the Euphrates River, that's 100% muslims.

[Ron_TN]

Good post Ron, that's why I carry a 1911.
I'm not worried about thugs, I try to stay out of their territory.

Islam has proclaimed death to America and Israel all of my lifetime.
Muslims have invaded America and my territory.

I recognize my enemy, I'm proud to be an Infidel.
I think it's clear that WW III is going to be about islam,
it'll be based around the Euphrates River, that's 100% muslims.

If you want to get really upset do a GOOGLE and ask how many mosques have been built in the U.S. the last 10 years then check the figure on how many are in Tennessee.   Its not Isis Christians are worried about its the so called friendly Muslims that will take over.  Most people have no idea what their intent is. Most have their head in the sand.  Do you have any idea how many are working in our Government?  After Hillary gets in she will get 2 or maybe 3 supreme court  judges and then the parties over.   She WILL get our guns take my word.  The Constitution will be down the drain. 

[A.J. Holst]

Of course, the very same thing could be said for Christians.

Theologically, No. Their allegiance is to Jesus and not the Constitution. (Jesus said render unto Caesar...)

Religiously, No. No other religion is accepted. Jesus said "I am -the- way, -the- truth and -the- light. As pastors love to point out, he didn't say one of many. (Christians do accept others who follow other religions, they don't kill those who are not Christian)

Scripturally, No. His allegiance is to Christianity, God's laws and church doctrine. I remember hearing numerous pastors preach about following God's law, even when it conflicts with the laws of the world. Kim Davis was an example of this, breaking the law because of what she believed. (Again, render unto Caesar on earth, follow Christ for everlasting life in Heaven. Kim Davis should have resigned even though the laws of separation of Church and State seem to be applied to Christianity rather than the Islamic lifestyle)

Geographically*, No. His allegiance is to Israel, for Yahweh is the God of Israel. Many Christians make a pilgrimage to the holy land every year, and a large portion of Christianity takes it's marching orders directly from The Vatican. (Say what? I'm Catholic and don't have a religious allegiance to any earthly locale)

Socially, No. Christianity teaches to be in the world, but not of the world. That's a fairly clear directive that Christians should 'maintain their distance' so to speak. (Witnessing and testifying to non Christians is social and even deadly in parts of the world. Maintaining distance is prudent as Satan will tempt and influence the Christian to re-enter the world...recovering drug addicts are counseled not to hang out in the same sandbox with other drug users)

Politically, No. Again, Christians are instructed to follow God's law above all others. When they vote to enact legislation based of the Bible, they are forcing their religious beliefs and morals onto everyone. While they haven't yet required people to pray the sinner's prayer or go to jail, forcing others to behave in accordance with your interpretation of religious right and wrong by making it law is conversion by force, no different than forcing someone to convert at gunpoint. (Morality of any sort in the US political system...hahahahahaha...you can't legislate morality...Jesus was sent to teach the law of Moses is in the heart, not defined by the legal and ritual action of the Old Testament Hebrews to show outward holiness)

Domestically, No. Christians are instructed that adulterous wives, heretics, blasphemers, etc should be stoned to death. They are also allowed to keep slaves, but instructed to be good masters. (would be true, if we followed the law of Moses, but alas, we don't)

Intellectually, No. Christians cannot accept the Constitution because it does not follow God's laws. It is based on principles that can be found in the Bible, but can also be found in the texts used by a wide variety of religions and societies all the way back to Hammurabi's Code. Christians feel they must control the country by limiting everything not specifically spelled out in the Constitution in accordance with their religion. (Offensive to my intelligence, but I'm used to being attacked for being a Christian. the basic rights of man are based in Judeo- Christian values)

Philosophically, No. Christianity does not allow freedom of religion, as it says it is the only way. Christians have fought numerous battles to have their religious symbols placed in government buildings. (You are certainly free to practice any religion and other than hate speech from narrow minded hypocritical Christian, you ain't going to be stoned or decapitated)

Spiritually, No. The Pledge of Allegiance was originally written to say "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all". Christians were not okay with such a secular pledge and in 1954 managed to have the words "Under God" added to it. (Under God was added to differentiate the US from the Godless communists, specifically the Soviet Union)



*Geographically? How can anyone be a geographically good anything? :bowrofl:

Edited April 5, 2016 by Gotthegoods

[toby1304]

Funny, I thought to be a good American, all you had to do was follow our laws.  Guess all that goes out the window when the Islamic boogeyman is involved.

Boogeyman? Time to call John Wick!

[Scorpion Equalizer]

No, because our Constitution and sharia law are incompatible. Also, the muslim goal is to establish a world caliphate.

[Smith]

Of course, the very same thing could be said for Christians.

Theologically, No. Their allegiance is to Jesus and not the Constitution.

Religiously, No. No other religion is accepted. Jesus said "I am -the- way, -the- truth and -the- light. As pastors love to point out, he didn't say one of many.

Scripturally, No. His allegiance is to Christianity, God's laws and church doctrine. I remember hearing numerous pastors preach about following God's law, even when it conflicts with the laws of the world. Kim Davis was an example of this, breaking the law because of what she believed.

Geographically*, No. His allegiance is to Israel, for Yahweh is the God of Israel. Many Christians make a pilgrimage to the holy land every year, and a large portion of Christianity takes it's marching orders directly from The Vatican.

Socially, No. Christianity teaches to be in the world, but not of the world. That's a fairly clear directive that Christians should 'maintain their distance' so to speak.

Politically, No. Again, Christians are instructed to follow God's law above all others. When they vote to enact legislation based of the Bible, they are forcing their religious beliefs and morals onto everyone. While they haven't yet required people to pray the sinner's prayer or go to jail, forcing others to behave in accordance with your interpretation of religious right and wrong by making it law is conversion by force, no different than forcing someone to convert at gunpoint.

Domestically, No. Christians are instructed that adulterous wives, heretics, blasphemers, etc should be stoned to death. They are also allowed to keep slaves, but instructed to be good masters.

Intellectually, No. Christians cannot accept the Constitution because it does not follow God's laws. It is based on principles that can be found in the Bible, but can also be found in the texts used by a wide variety of religions and societies all the way back to Hammurabi's Code. Christians feel they must control the country by limiting everything not specifically spelled out in the Constitution in accordance with their religion.

Philosophically, No. Christianity does not allow freedom of religion, as it says it is the only way. Christians have fought numerous battles to have their religious symbols placed in government buildings.

Spiritually, No. The Pledge of Allegiance was originally written to say "I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all". Christians were not okay with such a secular pledge and in 1954 managed to have the words "Under God" added to it.



*Geographically? How can anyone be a geographically good anything? :bowrofl:

Except the base tenants of Old and New Testament teachings completely disagree with you. The Bible teaches to give to Caesar what it's Caesar's, to submit to the governing authorities, regardless of who they are while maintaining your faith, and to live at peace with everyone if possible.
Diametrically at odds with the base tenants of Islam.

Your apologist morally equivalency is more than just a little wrong.

[btq96r]

Within the US, only one major religious following has any significance in affecting policy through the chief executives and legislatures at the local, state, and federal level, and it surely isn't Islam.

 

I'll worry about their political aspirations inside America when I have to, until then...meh.

Edited April 4, 2016 by btq96r

[56FordGuy]

Except the base tenants of Old and New Testament teachings completely disagree with you. The Bible teaches to give to Caesar what it's Caesar's, to submit to the governing authorities, regardless of who they are while maintaining your faith, and to live at peace with everyone if possible.
Diametrically at odds with the base tenants of Islam.

Your apologist morally equivalency is more than just a little wrong.

 

 

Diametrically at odds with the base tenants of Islam? The five pillars of Islam are:

 

Profession of faith. 

Daily prayers.

Giving, support the needy.

Fasting during Ramadan. 

Pilgrimage to Mecca, if physically able. 

 

Exactly what part of that is at odds with Christianity? While Christians aren't instructed to fast during Ramadan or go to Mecca, plenty of Christians do fast and make pilgrimages to holy sites in Israel. 

 

How does one submit to governing authorities while maintaining their faith when government differs from that faith? Recent examples I could cite would be the Kim Davis situation, or the religious groups battling anti discrimination laws or requirements to for health insurance to provide birth control? Is fighting against those government mandates submitting, or is it placing personal faith ahead of the law of the land? 

 

To whom have I apologized, and for what? My entire point was that painting an entire religion with a broad brush using a handful of texts out of context goes both ways, and is equally ridiculous. Who are the people fleeing Isis? Who are the local militias fighting Isis? They're Muslims. An entity, be it a person, government, etc cannot fix a problem they do not understand and it seems to me that an awful lot of people see attempting to understand as a weakness. They'd rather pound their chest and say "To heck with learning about them, let's just bash them in!" 

 

How's that working so far?

 

It would be like taking your car to a mechanic because it has a slight shimmy and a miss from 62-65 MPH. Instead of test driving it, hooking up a scanner, etc the mechanic pulls it into the bay, opens the hood and proceeds to bash everything he can with an 8 lb sledgehammer. I guess you don't have to worry about that shimmy anymore, though... :shrug:

[Smith]

Diametrically at odds with the base tenants of Islam? The five pillars of Islam are:

Profession of faith.
Daily prayers.
Giving, support the needy.
Fasting during Ramadan.
Pilgrimage to Mecca, if physically able.

Exactly what part of that is at odds with Christianity? While Christians aren't instructed to fast during Ramadan or go to Mecca, plenty of Christians do fast and make pilgrimages to holy sites in Israel.

How does one submit to governing authorities while maintaining their faith when government differs from that faith? Recent examples I could cite would be the Kim Davis situation, or the religious groups battling anti discrimination laws or requirements to for health insurance to provide birth control? Is fighting against those government mandates submitting, or is it placing personal faith ahead of the law of the land?

To whom have I apologized, and for what? My entire point was that painting an entire religion with a broad brush using a handful of texts out of context goes both ways, and is equally ridiculous. Who are the people fleeing Isis? Who are the local militias fighting Isis? They're Muslims. An entity, be it a person, government, etc cannot fix a problem they do not understand and it seems to me that an awful lot of people see attempting to understand as a weakness. They'd rather pound their chest and say "To heck with learning about them, let's just bash them in!"

How's that working so far?

It would be like taking your car to a mechanic because it has a slight shimmy and a miss from 62-65 MPH. Instead of test driving it, hooking up a scanner, etc the mechanic pulls it into the bay, opens the hood and proceeds to bash everything he can with an 8 lb sledgehammer. I guess you don't have to worry about that shimmy anymore, though... :shrug:

You paint with a broad brush, and theologically incorrectly one at that, Christians to make a point that Christians should not paint Muslims with a broad brush.

Interesting.

How did Christians get brought into this anyway? There was no mention of that in the OP.

[56FordGuy]

You paint with a broad brush, and theologically incorrectly one at that, Christians to make a point that Christians should not paint Muslims with a broad brush.

Interesting.

How did Christians get brought into this anyway? There was no mention of that in the OP.

 

 

I believe the theology I used is just as well grounded as the theology used to assemble the chain letter in the OP. Don't mistake that for me saying it's 'good' theology, but neither is the chain letter. Of course, in a religion with more than 45,000 different denominations in 2014 (Center for the study of global Christianty, Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary) defining good theology may be a challenge in itself. 

 

I thought I covered how Christians got brought into this is my last reply, to make the point that using select verses out of context to slander an entire religion is ridiculous and pointless at best. 

[Scorpion Equalizer]

Within the US, only one major religious following has any significance in affecting policy through the chief executives and legislatures at the local, state, and federal level, and it surely isn't Islam.

 

I'll worry about their political aspirations inside America when I have to, until then...meh.

 

Haven't you noticed that Muslims have already infiltrated our political institutions?

[btq96r]

Haven't you noticed that Muslims have already infiltrated our political institutions?

 

I'll bite.  What pray tell do you mean by "infiltrated" our political institutions?  Credible sources, please.

Edited April 4, 2016 by btq96r

[Ron_TN]

Haven't you noticed that Muslims have already infiltrated our political institutions?

yes and Obama has them working for him.....huh?

[Ron_TN]

The state of Tennessee and 16 others have banned the teaching of sharia law!  More states are considering.

 

 

The overall number of mosques in the United States quietly rose from 1,209 in 2000 to 2,106 in 2010, an increase of 74%. The "Ground Zero mosque", a planned mosque in lower Manhattan, was the subject of controversy from 2010 on.

 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Ron_TN

[A.J. Holst]

My entire point was that painting an entire religion with a broad brush using a handful of texts out of context goes both ways, and is equally ridiculous

 

DING DING DING we have a winner!!!

 

 

Well stated 56; specifically looking at Christianity, one must (or should) apply critical thinking to the entire Word of God, discern the truth from the Bible (if you believe in this stuff), witness and testify to His positive impact on one's own life, approach non-Christians with love and compassion and avoid the trap that Satan (if you believe in God you had better believe Satan) wants Christians to fall into (taking bits and pieces Scripture out of context for personal motives and agendas in the name of God)

 

While the pillars of Islam as stand alone statements of faith look positive (out of context perhaps?), the supporting documentation in Koran would indicate a rather militant and aggressive methods of converting or subjugating infidels.