Don't Drive Drunk

[R_Bert]

especially with a cop in the back....

 

 

http://wate.com/2016/03/13/deadly-officer-involved-shooting-in-lenoir-city/

 

 

[JohnC]

Wait...

"The LEO jumped in the bed of the truck and opened fire in to the cab, killing the driver"?

Really? Why did he endanger his own life by jumping in the bed of that truck? Why would he do that on such a petty (DUI/Public Intox) stop?
 
I could understand if he was wanted for a violent felony, fleeing murder, or murderer escaping prison, but this? 

Why would a LEO do that just because a subject is leaving the scene?

You have one in custody who knows the driver. You have a license plate and vehicle make. Why not do like the old days and let them run home and then serve them with a warrant for leaving the scene and whatever else he was guilty of (public intox or DUI)?
 
Just trying to make sense of this.... Not taking sides here. Edited March 15, 2016 by JohnC

[quietguy]

Wait...

"The LEO jumped in the bed of the truck and opened fire in to the cab, killing the driver"?

Really? Why did he endanger his own life by jumping in the bed of that truck? Why would he do that on such a petty (DUI/Public Intox) stop?

 

I could understand if he was wanted for a violent felony, or murder, murderer escaping prison, but this? 

Why would a LEO do that just because a subject is leaving the scene?

You have one in custody who knows the driver. You have a license plate and vehicle make. Why not do like the old days and let them run home and then serve them with a warrant for leaving the scene and whatever else he was guilty of (public intox or DUI)?

 

Just trying to make sense of this.... Not taking sides here. 

i wasn't there, and only have the details provided by the article.  

 

However, if the officer thought that the driver was impaired enough to be an eminent threat to others on the road, then he has a duty to protect the public.  

 

Was he justified in using deadly force?  The TBI, DA, etc will have to figure that out.  

[Tncobra]

Officers job is to go home after every shift. Jumping in a truck ,like grabbing a steering wheel...goes against his job.

[DaveTN]

Wait...

"The LEO jumped in the bed of the truck and opened fire in to the cab, killing the driver"?

Really? Why did he endanger his own life by jumping in the bed of that truck? Why would he do that on such a petty (DUI/Public Intox) stop?
 
I could understand if he was wanted for a violent felony, or murder, murderer escaping prison, but this? 

Why would a LEO do that just because a subject is leaving the scene?

You have one in custody who knows the driver. You have a license plate and vehicle make. Why not do like the old days and let them run home and then serve them with a warrant for leaving the scene and whatever else he was guilty of (public intox or DUI)?
 
Just trying to make sense of this.... Not taking sides here.

A DUI driver is putting you and your family in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm. This wasn’t just about fleeing. Will the cop be okay on this? It depends on whether or not his department and the DA support him.

I don’t think I would have jumped in the back of that truck (but I wasn’t there and don’t know the circumstances). But had he pulled on onto the road and killed a family in a head on collision; many would be screaming that the cop should have done something to stop him. Based on the limited amount of info in that story the good guys are okay and the criminals aren’t; so I’m okay with it. We will now see if the powers that matter are.

[E4 No More]

i wasn't there, and only have the details provided by the article.  

 

However, if the officer thought that the driver was impaired enough to be an eminent threat to others on the road, then he has a duty to protect the public.  

 

Was he justified in using deadly force?  The TBI, DA, etc will have to figure that out.  

The Supreme Court says differently.

[DaveTN]

The Supreme Court says differently.

The Supreme Court said they can’t be held liable for not being able to protect; not that they shouldn’t protect. It’s their job.

[E4 No More]

The Supreme Court said they can’t be held liable for not being able to protect; not that they shouldn’t protect. It’s their job.

The word used was "duty" for which they do not have.

[AtomicRooster]

Hmmm....I'm generally pro LEO but I'm really on the fence about this one. Not a smart move to jump in the back of the truck but I don't know PD's "rules of engagement" for a DUI suspect no do I know the dept.s policies and procedures for a DUI stop. I know 2 people made bad decisions and now 1 is dead.

Edited to add: Just exactly how much traffic does Lenoir City have at 1am on Sunday morning? Edited March 14, 2016 by AtomicRooster

[Possumslayer]

The passenger was secured before the driver?

[JohnC]

The Supreme Court says differently.

Exactly what was on my mind, and you are correct.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect-someone.html

[Caster]

There's no excuse for driving drunk.  It's attempted murder every time you do it.  Premeditated at that!  

 

I hope more drunk drivers get shot.  Good enough for them.  There's many a mother that's buried a child who would agree.  

[gjohnsoniv]

Wasn't there, don't know full story, but I'm commenting anyway. To me it seems more reckless to jump in the back of the truck and shoot the driver than to let him continue on while you call backup.

[USMC8672]

In Gonzales V Castle Rock NM , The SCOTUS said that the police have the Duty to protect the public, not you as an individual. On one hand I can see the cop stopping the guy, but seems like excessive force.

[DaveTN]

In Gonzales V Castle Rock NM , The SCOTUS said that the police have the Duty to protect the public, not you as an individual. On one hand I can see the cop stopping the guy, but seems like excessive force.

They were also ruling on the complaint that the Police didn’t go looking for the suspect; not that they didn’t act on a crime being committed in their presence. Apples and oranges to this case. Just as many would say the drunk probably wouldn’t kill anyone; a father that took his kids probably wouldn’t hurt them. But that one killed his kids.

This case could go either way; it’s a discretionary call on the part of the DA and what he thinks a jury would buy.

[E4 No More]

They were also ruling on the complaint that the Police didn’t go looking for the suspect; not that they didn’t act on a crime being committed in their presence. Apples and oranges to this case. Just as many would say the drunk probably wouldn’t kill anyone; a father that took his kids probably wouldn’t hurt them. But that one killed his kids.

This case could go either way; it’s a discretionary call on the part of the DA and what he thinks a jury would buy.

No, there was a case where the police waited outside an apartment door while a woman was being killed inside, and they weren't liable for that either.

[10-Ring]

I hope the cop gets cleared.  He went above and beyond to protect the public from danger.  I don't really care if some dummy had to die, if he hadn't been drinking and driving it would have never happened. 

[DaveTN]

No, there was a case where the police waited outside an apartment door while a woman was being killed inside, and they weren't liable for that either.

This case isn’t about liability; it’s about an Officer acting on what he apparently thought was such a great danger that he put his own life at risk to stop him. Some cops would have done what he did; some would not.

A drunk who ran is dead. The cop and the people around him are okay. I know some will have an issue with that; I don’t. And I hope the DA doesn’t.

I’m not defending the cop saying it was a good idea. I’m saying that the drunk was given every opportunity to stop. If people think that because they are “simply” running and they are putting others’ lives in danger doing it they won’t get shot; they are wrong.

This quit being about DUI and became something much more when he ran and put lives at risk.

[bersaguy]

I am 100%  behind the LEO on this one. I have lost a few family members and a few friends and one entire family of Husband,wife and two wonderful toddlers all to drunk drivers. I have zero tolerance or pity for a drunk driver. The way I look at it 1 less off the road makes the roads that much safer. And as for his being killed, that falls under the list of Self inflicted injuries caused by stupidity for which I have no mercy..............jmho

[56FordGuy]

Wait...

"The LEO jumped in the bed of the truck and opened fire in to the cab, killing the driver"?

Really? Why did he endanger his own life by jumping in the bed of that truck? Why would he do that on such a petty (DUI/Public Intox) stop?

I could understand if he was wanted for a violent felony, or murder, murderer escaping prison, but this?

Why would a LEO do that just because a subject is leaving the scene?

Maybe he's seen too many action movies, maybe he watched one too many episodes of Cops. Maybe he's mentally unfit for his position and was hopped up on adrenaline.

According to the news article there was no breathalyzer, or other indication that anyone was inebriated. It says there was a 911 call (no further explanation) and that officers were questioning three individuals. When they began to take one of the three into custody, the driver began to drive away. At this point they have two of three suspects and all their information, there was no reason for the officer to jump in the truck...or as the article says, "somehow ended up in" the truck.

One of the three was charged with public intoxication, the other with possession of drug paraphernalia. As of now we have no evidence that the driver was under any influence. Heck, maybe he was the designated driver of the group.

This officer should be charged with murder. Regardless of how irrational and emotional people want to be, drunk driving (which we don't even know if that was happening) is not a death sentence, and especially not one to be dealt out by some rank and file officer in a gas station parking lot.

I think the officer didn't know how to react when he suddenly wasn't in charge of the situation anymore, so instead of remaining calm and apprehending the driver later he decided he had to regain immediate control. As a result, a potentially innocent man is now dead. This is why so many people have a hard time trusting the police.

[DaveTN]

Maybe he's seen too many action movies, maybe he watched one too many episodes of Cops. Maybe he's mentally unfit for his position and was hopped up on adrenaline.

According to the news article there was no breathalyzer, or other indication that anyone was inebriated. It says there was a 911 call (no further explanation) and that officers were questioning three individuals. When they began to take one of the three into custody, the driver began to drive away. At this point they have two of three suspects and all their information, there was no reason for the officer to jump in the truck...or as the article says, "somehow ended up in" the truck.

One of the three was charged with public intoxication, the other with possession of drug paraphernalia. As of now we have no evidence that the driver was under any influence. Heck, maybe he was the designated driver of the group.

This officer should be charged with murder. Regardless of how irrational and emotional people want to be, drunk driving (which we don't even know if that was happening) is not a death sentence, and especially not one to be dealt out by some rank and file officer in a gas station parking lot.

I think the officer didn't know how to react when he suddenly wasn't in charge of the situation anymore, so instead of remaining calm and apprehending the driver later he decided he had to regain immediate control. As a result, a potentially innocent man is now dead. This is why so many people have a hard time trusting the police.

This isn’t much different than the cop that hopped on the hood of the car on a traffic stop in Nashville as the guy was trying to run over him. The cop shot him. Clean shoot.

We don’t know from that little story, maybe the cop ended up in the back because he had nowhere else to go. We just don’t know. So I’m giving the benefit of the doubt to the cop. But my opinion will have no impact on the case.

When you do stupid things the results can be bad. As for BAC, if they guy was trying to run over him that doesn’t matter, but they will know his BAC when they do the autopsy.

I doubt this incident will impact anyone’s feelings about trusting cops.

[Erik88]

Maybe he's seen too many action movies, maybe he watched one too many episodes of Cops. Maybe he's mentally unfit for his position and was hopped up on adrenaline.

According to the news article there was no breathalyzer, or other indication that anyone was inebriated. It says there was a 911 call (no further explanation) and that officers were questioning three individuals. When they began to take one of the three into custody, the driver began to drive away. At this point they have two of three suspects and all their information, there was no reason for the officer to jump in the truck...or as the article says, "somehow ended up in" the truck.

One of the three was charged with public intoxication, the other with possession of drug paraphernalia. As of now we have no evidence that the driver was under any influence. Heck, maybe he was the designated driver of the group.

This officer should be charged with murder. Regardless of how irrational and emotional people want to be, drunk driving (which we don't even know if that was happening) is not a death sentence, and especially not one to be dealt out by some rank and file officer in a gas station parking lot.

I think the officer didn't know how to react when he suddenly wasn't in charge of the situation anymore, so instead of remaining calm and apprehending the driver later he decided he had to regain immediate control. As a result, a potentially innocent man is now dead. This is why so many people have a hard time trusting the police.

 

 

Innocent of what? He fled from police. Actions have consequence.

 

I'd like to see the video to see how things shook out but I'm not going to fault the officer based on what I've read so far.

[Capbyrd]

I personally feel a truck traveling at speed with a live person in the bed and a dead one behind the wheel is more of a hazard than a truck with a drunk person behind the wheel.  

[Obiwan]

I personally feel a truck traveling at speed with a live person in the bed and a dead one behind the wheel is more of a hazard than a truck with a drunk person behind the wheel.  

 

He may not have been at speed yet. I don't know what exactly happened, but I'm not jumping to unfounded conclusions and making bold statements (not referring to you here, but others). It's possible that the dunks where between the truck and the cruiser. The officer may have been dong his job, like cuffing one, when the driver bailed, jumped in the truck, put it in reverse in an attempt to ram or run over the officer, which then had no chance of escape other than to hop on the trucks bed. And since there was an attempt on his life, he had every right to shoot the driver. 

 

That's of course only one possible scenario. We just don't know yet what happened. I'd like to see the officers video. But I highly doubt he ran behind the truck and leaped inside the bed because he has seen too many action movies.

[56FordGuy]

This isn’t much different than the cop that hopped on the hood of the car on a traffic stop in Nashville as the guy was trying to run over him. The cop shot him. Clean shoot.

We don’t know from that little story, maybe the cop ended up in the back because he had nowhere else to go. We just don’t know. So I’m giving the benefit of the doubt to the cop. But my opinion will have no impact on the case.

When you do stupid things the results can be bad. As for BAC, if they guy was trying to run over him that doesn’t matter, but they will know his BAC when they do the autopsy.

I doubt this incident will impact anyone’s feelings about trusting cops.

 

We don't know if the guy was trying to run over anyone. The article says the officer ordered Grubb to stop the vehicle "several times", which tells me he wasn't in a split second decision situation if he had time to shout "Stop" over and over. It also says the officer shot the driver as the vehicle was entering Hwy 321- doesn't sound like anyone was trying to run over anyone there, either. Nothing about Grubb driving toward officers, charging at them, etc. How is deadly force justified when the alleged assailant is leaving the scene? 

 

Stupid can hurt, sure. How do we know the driver did anything at all? Maybe the store clerk called 911 because the buddy was drunk, or the one charged with drug paraphernalia smelled like weed. Was leaving the scene at that particular time the best decision? Probably not...but it warrants a death sentence? 

 

As for this impacting anyone's feelings about cops...even knowing several personally, this sure ain't helping mine. 

 

Innocent of what? He fled from police. Actions have consequence.

 

I'd like to see the video to see how things shook out but I'm not going to fault the officer based on what I've read so far.

 

I'm a big fan of that whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing, so my question is guilty of what? As of now there's to evidence he was drunk, high, shoplifted anything, etc. Everyone in this thread is speculating that he was drunk, but nothing other than the subject line of the original post supports that. All I'm doing is speculating that he was innocent, because of that whole bit about "innocent until proven guilty". With the facts we have now, it's just as likely he was the sober designated driver as it is he was under the influence of anything. 

 

He disengaged from the officers and tried to leave the scene. They had his name, his tag number, and his friends. It isn't like they couldn't have found him later. Again, with the information we have now there's no reason to believe his interaction with the officers was any different than a cop coming up to me on the street and saying "Excuse me sir, mind if I ask you some questions?" 

 

If I say "No thanks, I'm good", turn and walk away that deserves being shot multiple times and killed?