Decent AK factory gun?

[Oh Shoot]

Nice looking rifles ! I'd love to seem them that low, but unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever see them below $600 again as long as Century is controlling the imports from Cugir. 

 

There ARE no WASR imports right now. That's the real prob. Century has had the exclusive rights for years, but they have only jumped up after Cugir announced they had to quit for a while back in September. Simple supply and demand at this point I'd think.

 

- OS

Edited March 24, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[JohnC]

I appreciate the info, and if you sense any frustration, it's not directed at you. I guess I need to just box my RAS 47 up and try to find another firearm to trade it for at a major loss. Like I said, I avoided the WASR because of literally dozens of critical reviews on the web. I avoided Yugo AKs due to dozens of critical reviews. I avoided the PSA version of the AK due to negative reviews. I avoided others due to negative reviews. At the time I read several good reviews of the RAS 47 - including a fairly positive review by Rob Ski - and found only minimal gripes about it. And now I find out the whole damn thing is garbage. It seems the only way to get a decent AK is to spend over $1000 and I'm not spending that on an AK when I can darn near buy a Springfield M1A for that much (although I keep reading negative reviews of those due to the cast receiver). I've never seen a category of firearms simultaneously have such high praise and continuous negative feedback as the AK platform. I'll just stick with the AR platform and buy an SKS.

Granted that I've not put a lot of rounds through my AK's but at this point I've had zero issues with them.

I'd trust a Saiga and so far my Zastava M92 PAP has been solid.

How they came right out of the box...






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited March 24, 2016 by JohnC

[dangerdawg]

There ARE no WASR imports right now. That's the real prob. Century has had the exclusive rights for years, but they have only jumped up after Cugir announced they had to quit for a while back in September. Simple supply and demand at this point I'd think.

 

- OS

 

 

In late 2014/Early 2015, Century informed dealers  (Atlantic Firearms) that prices on 2015 imports (WASR and PAP's) were going up by around $100. This was around the time Century also released their American stamped RAS-47 AK. Some have speculated that this made the price point of Century's domestic made rifle and the imports somewhat more competitive. Around this same time buyers noted that the WASR-10 was coming with newer solid wood blonde furniture and a somewhat better fit and finish overall, so some felt the price increase was justified with the better QC. I don't believe Century has any reason to lower the price on the imports, they aren't getting any cheaper or taking any less red tape to bring in, there isn't a cheaper AK alternative, but I suppose time will tell.

 

Cugir/Century have just released around 2000 RH10's in the US, this is a WASR with a combo gas block/front sight and dressed in Magpul furniture for $799. This is the same as the M10 that M+M imported a couple of years ago, until Century sued over the exclusivity rights - 

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/rh10-ak47-magpul-ri2424-n-detail.html?Itemid=0

 

These RH-10's will likely last until WASR-10 imports resume later this year.

Edited March 24, 2016 by dangerdawg

[Oh Shoot]

In late 2014/Early 2015, Century informed dealers  (Atlantic Firearms) that prices on 2015 imports (WASR and PAP's) were going up by around $100. This was around the time Century also released their American stamped RAS-47 AK. Some have speculated that this made the price point of Century's domestic made rifle and the imports somewhat more competitive. Around this same time buyers noted that the WASR-10 was coming with newer solid wood blonde furniture and a somewhat better fit and finish overall, so some felt the price increase was justified with the better QC. I don't believe Century has any reason to lower the price on the imports, they aren't getting any cheaper or taking any less red tape to bring in, there isn't a cheaper AK alternative, but I suppose time will tell.

 

Cugir/Century have just released around 2000 RH10's in the US, this is a WASR with a combo gas block/front sight and dressed in Magpul furniture for $799. This is the same as the M10 that M+M imported a couple of years ago, until Century sued over the exclusivity rights - 

http://www.atlanticfirearms.com/component/virtuemart/shipping-rifles/rh10-ak47-magpul-ri2424-n-detail.html?Itemid=0

 

These RH-10's will likely last until WASR-10 imports resume later this year.

 

Well,  all I know is that new WASR 10s were everywhere for 499-525 clams pretty much right up to mid October of 2015 (bout same best price as in '14) when the Cujir announcement about stopping export and supplying internal Romanian contracts came out, so there seems some disconnect in what you cited and the reality of the pricing through almost all of 2015, at least where the WASR was concerned.

 

- OS

Edited March 25, 2016 by Oh Shoot

[Smith]

The really only "bad" AK is an American made one. That is usually because the barrel bore is over or undersized based on American calibers, bad heat treating, or bad riveting. Typically, the smaller the operation the bigger the likelihood of a screw up. Ironically, American AKs tend to have a hard time specing correctly. I believe that has to do with the difference in manufacturing cost of the former Soviet Union and the U.S.

[tacops]

Ok, so I run into a guy at work who just happens to have one more AK than he needs.  Turns out he lives just down the road from me and said he would drop by and let me check it out.  Great guy.  Although not a recent production WASR 10, it is a CAI Romanian WASR 10/63, Cugir, all numbers matching, good rivets with none loose or too tight, laminated furniture, chrome lined bore, slant muzzle brake, optics rail, no triangle markings, all engraving by machine not hand, in original box with bayonet/scabbard, two steel magazines with no wobble, oil can, sling, leather magazine pouch and all paper work to include original receipt from January 2007.  Very low mileage(two magazines fired when originally sighted in).  Seems to run like a champ and yes the front site is canted very slightly to the "right"...how appropriate, it's a conservative :)  I should be able to take care of the slight cant without too much trouble.  I did have to give him $60 bucks over his 2007 price on the receipt.  I guess now I will have to get another one to compare it to.  Oh, and a special thanks to Dolomite for info and advice provided.

[dangerdawg]

Well,  all I know is that new WASR 10s were everywhere for 499-525 clams pretty much right up to mid October of 2015 (bout same best price as in '14) when the Cujir announcement about stopping export and supplying internal Romanian contracts came out, so there seems some disconnect in what you cited and the reality of the pricing through almost all of 2015, at least where the WASR was concerned.

 

- OS

 

 

Not sure about the disconnect, from my research and knowledge most of the online retailers sold their 2015 WASR's for above $550, closer to $575 most of the year.  Only thing I can think of is that some of the places you saw still had older 2014 inventory and were able to sell them at the previous lower pricing. I did a search of Slickguns for the past year that shows the overall price trend over 2015 - https://www.slickguns.com/search/apachesolr_search/WASR-10?sort=date&dir=desc&title_only=0&hide_oos=0&show_oos=0&categories_filter=3

 

 Atlantic says Century notified them of the price change around October of 2014. Atlantic Firearms & J&G Sales sold the end of their 2014 WASR inventory at the old $499 price schedule in Jan/Feb of 2015, once the 2015 WASR inventory arrived in Feb/March the price went up to $579 at Atlantic and has continued to rise since. Below are links to threads and  Atlantic's posts on The AK Files about Century's pricing structure changes for reference.

 

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=209700&highlight=wasr-10

 

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2390321&postcount=13

 

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2398805&postcount=128

 

http://www.akfiles.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2484202&postcount=30

[dangerdawg]

I appreciate the info, and if you sense any frustration, it's not directed at you. I guess I need to just box my RAS 47 up and try to find another firearm to trade it for at a major loss. Like I said, I avoided the WASR because of literally dozens of critical reviews on the web. I avoided Yugo AKs due to dozens of critical reviews. I avoided the PSA version of the AK due to negative reviews. I avoided others due to negative reviews. At the time I read several good reviews of the RAS 47 - including a fairly positive review by Rob Ski - and found only minimal gripes about it. And now I find out the whole damn thing is garbage. It seems the only way to get a decent AK is to spend over $1000 and I'm not spending that on an AK when I can darn near buy a Springfield M1A for that much (although I keep reading negative reviews of those due to the cast receiver). I've never seen a category of firearms simultaneously have such high praise and continuous negative feedback as the AK platform. I'll just stick with the AR platform and buy an SKS.

 

I understand your frustration. If you feel you are going to have to take a substantial loss on the RAS-47, you may as well shoot it, it does have a warranty and Century has decent customer service. Otherwise I'd recommend trying to get the dealer that sold it to you to make a trade or possibly trade it at a gun show for a WASR. 

Edited March 25, 2016 by dangerdawg

[Dolomite_supafly]

If anyone wants to handle and shoot a WASR let me know. I have a loaner that is in Spots' hands right now.

I have others but not going to lend them out but will let anyone shoot my guns.

As soon as my normal shop opens I will be ordering at least one RH10, and maybe more, to check them out.

[cch2a]

I have one of the IO/Pioneer Arms AKs and couldn't be happier. Overall fit and finish was great but still had it cerakoted cause I like colors lol. Only problem I had was with the tapco trigger which needed a light polishing. I would not hesitate to pick another one up if I had the funds.

[Dolomite_supafly]

That is because the Pioneer AKs by IOR are not made in the US.

[cch2a]

That is because the Pioneer AKs by IOR are not made in the US.

Yup I was adding my experience for all the haters out there. Lol

[dangerdawg]

If anyone wants to handle and shoot a WASR let me know. I have a loaner that is in Spots' hands right now.

I have others but not going to lend them out but will let anyone shoot my guns.

As soon as my normal shop opens I will be ordering at least one RH10, and maybe more, to check them out.

 

 

Now that's a very generous offer !

 

RH10 Under The Hood Overview -

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULUj3Vl_9e4

 

RH10 Torture Test

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3jxQBjgOnI

[Dolomite_supafly]

Ordered, should be here Wednesday.

[dangerdawg]

I have one of the IO/Pioneer Arms AKs and couldn't be happier. Overall fit and finish was great but still had it cerakoted cause I like colors lol. Only problem I had was with the tapco trigger which needed a light polishing. I would not hesitate to pick another one up if I had the funds.

 

 

I'm glad you've enjoyed yours, from what I've gathered most of these were operationally good rifles, they just weren't new production Polish import rifles as advertised. The term "Polemanian" was coined to describe them. To clarify, here is an excerpt that was posted by Classic Firearms after these rifles were introduced, apologizing to customers for misrepresenting them:

 

"These rifles were imported into the U.S. By I.O. Inc. through a joint endeavor with Pioneer Arms in Poland. When we were offered the rifles by I.O. we were led to believe that the Polish Radom factory was jumping back into AK production and that these rifles were all Polish made from the ground up utilizing original Polish Radom factory equipment. We received a sampling of rifles and were mightily impressed. The fit and finish was very nice, the furniture was smooth and high gloss, the receivers were marked Radom Poland and appeared to be of very high quality, and the barrels were sharp with nice chrome lined bores and chambers. We liked what we saw. We committed to an order of a few hundred rifles, took some pictures of a sample rifle and posted the rifles to our website. Then we started taking orders. Just another day at the office for us and all was good.

In hindsight I wish we had taken a closer look at all of the internals and inspected for matching #'s.
In truth we did break the samples down and look at the quality and the bluing of the internals but the finish on all of our sample rifles was really nice inside and out and the only thing we found not pristine was a little powder residue on some of the gas pistons which is typical from test firing and even that wiped right off. 

Anyway I.O. already had the guns state side so just as we sold through our sample guns we received our full shipment and started shipping out rifles from it. Soon after these started hitting the customers we started getting a few phone calls and e-mails that maybe these rifles were not exactly what we had represented. We had some reports of internal parts showing some finish wear and mis-matched serial #'s which would not be typical of rifles built from the ground up.

As soon as it became clear that we may have inadvertently mis-represented these rifles we suspended sales and made a mad dash to inspect our remaining guns. It soon became clear that we did indeed have some issues. 

While all of the barreled actions looked nice, and most of the externals were still really good, we saw varying degrees of bluing wear on the internals and particullarly the lower bolts. Also, we verified that the internal parts that were serial #'d did indeed have mis-matched #'s.

We felt as if we had been had. More importantly we felt that we had blemished our reputation by representing the rifles a certain way only to find out that they were not as discribed. We contacted the importer and basically said " Whats going on here "? 

It took a little time but we now know the full truth and that is that these are not 100% Polish AK Rifles. 
They did come out of Poland, and the primary parts are Polish made and assembled, but we still misled you guys based on some really bad or at least incomplete information. 

While some would consider this minor, it's still a big deal to us and we are still working through the details.  
In the end however what's done is done and we have learned a valuable lesson. I'll save you all of the " This is an Outrage ", - the - " How Dare You's", and the general grousing back and forth that has gone on concerning these firearms. Instead, I will cut directly to the chase of where we are now on these rifles. 

Based on our thorough physical inspection and verified by a letter we have now received from Pioneer Arms... Here is the Straight Story on The Polish AK Rifles. Each of these rifles has a Polish Barreled Action and was assembled in the Radom Plant. In other words every rifle has a new Polish made receiver, and a new Polish made chrome lined barrel. The remainder of the parts are a mixture of new or surplus Romanian AK rifle parts that may or may not have been refinished depending on the degree of bluing wear.

Now the assembly work shows every sign of the high quality standards you would expect from Polish workmanship with really clean pressings and rivet work. The Barrels are impressive and the chrome lining is clean from the chamber to the crown. To me the finish is superior to the Romanian built rifles as is the overall quality of the assembly.

What we are doing now and how we are going forward. 

Since the rifles vary somewhat with the cosmetic quality of some of the parts used we will be seperating the best rifles to hold out for continuing sells. Even though they are not all Polish made we honestly think these meet the quality standards to justify the higher price. We will continue to sell these rifles with the full disclosure you see above. Any rifle not meeting that standard will be held out and its fate decided later. Basically we are still in negotiations on these. 

If you have already received one of these Polish AK's I fully believe the chances are that you are completely satisfied... However, if you are not, we want you to be. Please contact us at sales@classicfirearms.com and we will do everything in our power to see that your concerns are addressed. Complete customer satisfaction is our ultimate Goal"

Edited March 26, 2016 by dangerdawg

[cch2a]

Dangerdawg,

Yeah I've seen that explanation before. Like I said my sample is fantastic. Everything looked brand new and all my serial numbers match don't know how that's possible given the explanation shown. Finish was consistent throughout. Great bang for the buck at the time I bought but not sure about current market. I just don't think people should dismiss them as quality because of the IO/Polish confusion.

[tacops]

Well, I was able to spend a couple hours out back with the WASR 10/63.  I gotta say I am lovin' me some AK.  I don't know why I haven't picked one up before now.  I will have to change the grip though, it is just too small for my hand.

[Doubs43]

No one has mentioned the Bulgarian SLR-93 or SLR-95. They'll be used but have milled receivers and are top quality.

 

My SLR-95 was purchased during the ban and had a thumbhole stock. To legally convert it, I had to use at least five parts made in the USA. The fire control parts number three while the pistol grip and stock make up the other two.

 

Not sure what they sell for at the moment but they are worth looking for IMO.

 

[URL=http://s70.photobucket.com/user/doubs43/media/SLR-95/SLR-95_Composite_zpsdr33mukr.jpg.html][/URL]

[Oh Shoot]

Not sure about the disconnect, from my research and knowledge most of the online retailers sold their 2015 WASR's for above $550, closer to $575 most of the year.  Only thing I can think of is that some of the places you saw still had older 2014 inventory and were able to sell them at the previous lower pricing. I did a search of Slickguns ...etc

 

I'll accede to your research, and thanks for making the effort to look it all up;  I suppose I must be disremembering as to precise time frame of the increasing prices...

 

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

Just picked up the RH10 and is is perfect other than one thing. The gun looks straight, looks great and has the amazing Century trigger in it.

The flaw is the rear sight. It is like an RPK rear sight but the barrel does not allow the front sight to be seen well. 10 minutes with a file should fix it.