What exactly does this mean??

[Glock30Owner]

Hmm. Interesting. I was always under the impression that it couldn't be carried off-duty. I guess it's because alot of schools require you be a LEO or have an active Security license to take the course.

I still won't carry mine off-duty. I have a gun for those times. Good to know though.

Never, ever, take yours or anyone else's impression when it comes to the law. If you have the wrong impression you could be on the wrong side of it. Glad that this time you weren't.

I know that I always look up the relevant law and read it if I have concerns. If I can't understand the legalese (more common with Federal than TN state laws) I talk to a lawyer friend of mine.

As for carry of a baton off-duty, why limit your options in self defense?

From one "rent-a-cop" to another, be safe.

[Punisher84]

Just an update. I talked to a few people since I lasted posted here and I'm still getting a no-go on carrying a collapsible baton or anything similar off-duty.

The reason I'm getting is the classes certify you for a duty capacity. Same as you can't carry your handgun off-duty if you don't have your permit. You can carry it to and from, but not into Target, Wal-Mart, etc.

There is no class for pepper spray as a civilian, but there is for a guard.

There is no class for baton for a civilian, but there is for a guard.

The only difference is you can't carry a baton as a civilian.

This is coming from a State Instructor and active duty LEO that's been doing this for about 15 years.

[Guest SUNTZU]

You have to be certified for pepper spray? Do you have to be certified to use a hickory walking cane?

[Punisher84]

You have to be certified for pepper spray? Do you have to be certified to use a hickory walking cane?

LOL Yea anything you carry in an on duty capacity you have to be trained to use. Basically covering use of the item, force continuum, etc.

It's all liability crap. If somebody wants to sue the department it's much easier to make a case for negligence if the officer wasn't trained. Plus the State requires it.

Pepper spray, Impact Weapon, and Stun device are items all Police and Security personnel have to be trained on if they are going to carry them in TN. Which means getting sprayed and tased yourself and then beating on an instructor and bags with a stick.

[Guest SUNTZU]

I understand the need for duty training due to liability. I was thinking more along the lines of buying pepper spray for my girlfriend to carry to work. BTW, she just graduated from LMU and is a RN. I'm so proud that she can now go get a freaking real job.

[Punisher84]

I understand the need for duty training due to liability. I was thinking more along the lines of buying pepper spray for my girlfriend to carry to work. BTW, she just graduated from LMU and is a RN. I'm so proud that she can now go get a freaking real job.

Congrats to her! No she doesn't have to be certified as a civilian. Buy and spray away!

The deal broken down is as follows:

Pepper spray Civilian-OK Guard-Certified OK

Baton Civilian-NO Guard-Certified OK

Taser Civilian-OK Guard- Certified OK

Handgun Civilian-Permit Guard- Armed Guard license

[Guest db99wj]

From what my understanding is, a civilian can carry the pepper spray without any training etc. If you are licensed as a security guard, whether unarmed or armed, you then must go through additional training to carry non-lethal things such as pepper spray.

This is my understanding of the way it works, but it has been awhile since I have looked at that.

[Guest SUNTZU]

Thanks, I didn't want her getting in trouble for cayenne in a can and messing up her chance to get her HCP.

[Punisher84]

Thanks, I didn't want her getting in trouble for cayenne in a can and messing up her chance to get her HCP.

Nah she's good bro. Spray and taser are A-Ok!

[Fallguy]

I admit I could be wrong, but I still believe a civilian can carry a baton if they have the training. I mean "any person" would seem to me to mean any person, not just LEOs, Security Guards etc...

I understand if you are a security guard and either the training you receive or the policies of the company you work for only allow you to carry while you at work. They paid for the training, they issued you the baton, they don't want to be responsible for you when you are not on their time. But their policy is not the same as the law.

Also I understand few if, any, instructors will teach baton to private citizens but there is nothing in the law or ASP polices that prevent it. (Of course there are other brands of batons as well.) AFAIK there is no time limit or expiration date on the training so it seems to be valid from now on as long as you have received it and have the certificate. So I am sure their are at least a few former LEOs, Security guards, etc.. that had the training, have the certificate, but no longer work in that capacity.

In fact at one time there was an instructor on here that was going to offer baton classes to TGO members.

[Guest ProguninTN]

I admit I could be wrong, but I still believe a civilian can carry a baton if they have the training. I mean "any person" would seem to me to mean any person, not just LEOs, Security Guards etc...

I understand if you are a security guard and either the training you receive or the policies of the company you work for only allow you to carry while you at work. They paid for the training, they issued you the baton, they don't want to be responsible for you when you are not on their time. But their policy is not the same as the law.

Also I understand few if, any, instructors will teach baton to private citizens but there is nothing in the law or ASP polices that prevent it. (Of course there are other brands of batons as well.) AFAIK there is no time limit or expiration date on the training so it seems to be valid from now on as long as you have received it and have the certificate. So I am sure their are at least a few former LEOs, Security guards, etc.. that had the training, have the certificate, but no longer work in that capacity.

In fact at one time there was an instructor on here that was going to offer baton classes to TGO members.

Fallguy has it right. I was baton certified for security purposes, but I know people who don't work in security who are certified. The law simply says that one must be certified in the use of clubs to carry one. However, to carry one as a guard, one must also be a licensed as a guard. See T.C.A. Title 62 Chapter 35.

Punisher: I challenge your LEO associate who says joe citizen can't carry a baton. Show me the statute. (For the record, I received my training from an individual who is a retired LEO and former member of the state board which oversees security training, and there were people in the baton class who were not licensed guards.)

[Punisher84]

Punisher: I challenge your LEO associate who says joe citizen can't carry a baton. Show me the statute. (For the record, I received my training from an individual who is a retired LEO and former member of the state board which oversees security training, and there were people in the baton class who were not licensed guards.)

I'm just going by this guy because I've known him several years and he really knows his stuff. I mean anyone can be wrong or misunderstand law, but considering my source's background I'm gonna stick by him.

I'm one of those that when it comes to law and the internet I'm always going to go by my most trusted sources in my life. Considering those sources are made up of lawyers, cops, federal agents, security guards, and state instructors I think I'm getting a well rounded view.

As I said previously as well I have no desire to carry it off-duty so it's not an issue on my end. I did see Fallguy's TCA on defenses to carrying, so I don't know.

[Guest canynracer]

+1

by the way...who carries a baton? I ask because if nobody responding to the thread carries one, well then......why are we discussing it?? LOL

carry a monkey fist, pepper sray, and a taser.

I recommend the Kimber spray...comes out a 90mph...15fps...that stuff is brutal...

"Tested one Pepper Blaster and it was very easy to hit the target.

I got some of the OC spray on my skin and it caused a burn that lasted about 24 hours.

This product is 10% OC 2.4% Major Capsaicinoids (Bear Spray is 2.0% OC) with 399,000 at the nozzle heat derived from raw food grade [peppers] OC with 4 Million Scoville heat units.

I hope I never have to use this but if I do I know the Pepper Blaster will work. "

Edited December 28, 2008 by canynracer

[Guest canynracer]

BTW...you get two shots with the above..

[Punisher84]

You know as much ninja crap as I'll get for this *stares at Canynracer* I did take several years of martial arts weapons training when I use to do tournaments in TN regularly. Bo staff is a good one to learn because basically anything shaped like a staff is now a weapon to you.

If it gets down to it I can whoop ass with a mop handle.

[Fallguy]

You know as much ninja crap as I'll get for this *stares at Canynracer* I did take several years of martial arts weapons training when I use to do tournaments in TN regularly. Bo staff is a good one to learn because basically anything shaped like a staff is now a weapon to you.

If it gets down to it I can whoop ass with a mop handle.

LOL..since we are "going there" I used to wonder if I could carry my Nunchakus if I got a certificate from some martial arts instructor saying I has been trained with them.....

The Bo Staff is definitely a good martial arts weapon to study, as you said practically any handle can be substituted for it.

[Guest canynracer]

You know as much ninja crap as I'll get for this *stares at Canynracer* I did take several years of martial arts weapons training when I use to do tournaments in TN regularly. Bo staff is a good one to learn because basically anything shaped like a staff is now a weapon to you.

If it gets down to it I can whoop ass with a mop handle.

The name, is Punisher...............................

'judy choppin' an'a kung fu kickin'

[Guest db99wj]

Wow, this thread has it all, if I could have found a pepper spray emoticon.....

[Guest SUNTZU]

You know as much ninja crap as I'll get for this *stares at Canynracer* I did take several years of martial arts weapons training when I use to do tournaments in TN regularly. Bo staff is a good one to learn because basically anything shaped like a staff is now a weapon to you.

If it gets down to it I can whoop ass with a mop handle.

I have pretty good bo staff skills...

Pedro offers you his protection.

[Punisher84]

I knew it lol. I'm giving SUNTZU the win though. Napoleon references are always great. lol

[Guest ProguninTN]

I'm just going by this guy because I've known him several years and he really knows his stuff. I mean anyone can be wrong or misunderstand law, but considering my source's background I'm gonna stick by him.

I'm one of those that when it comes to law and the internet I'm always going to go by my most trusted sources in my life. Considering those sources are made up of lawyers, cops, federal agents, security guards, and state instructors I think I'm getting a well rounded view.

As I said previously as well I have no desire to carry it off-duty so it's not an issue on my end. I did see Fallguy's TCA on defenses to carrying, so I don't know.

I guess, "better safe than sorry" is reasonable enough. I suppose not having to spend $$$ to fight charges is good. Although, I do know people who are not guards, but are baton certified and carry them from time to time. They do so to have more than just a fiream. (ie, less than lethal force option)

[ZenDog]

I found someone willing to train us and give us a baton certificate - looks very patriotic to me....

But I dunno why y'all wanna carry one of those things in public - I'd be a bit embarrassed to carry one myself.

[Guest db99wj]

Well she does have good trigger finger discipline!!!!

[Fallguy]

I have sent an e-mail to a state Rep that has helped me in the past with laws and even obtaining AG opinions. I will post in a new thread his response. But to me "any person" simply means "any person"

Also looking back, another difference between (a)(8) & (a)(9) is that in (a)(9) you have to meet the requirments of being able to purchase a firearm to be able to carry the baton.