See thru scope mounts.....

[gregintenn]

......don't do it.......just trust me on this one. :doh:

[Omega]

......don't do it.......just trust me on this one. :doh:

Sounds like a good story emerging.

 

For years I always used see through rings on all my hunting rifles, though I KNEW closer to the bore is better.  I always thought, what if my scope messes up, what if it gets foggy etc etc.  But you know what, I never had to, so a few years ago I stopped doing that, not even BUIS on my last few builds.

[mikegideon]

All scope mounts are see thru.

[Omega]

All scope mounts are see thru.

Nope, just the rings.

[Peace]

I have a pair  - vintage ... late 70s if anyone wants them.   :pleased:     Every sporterized, bolt action 30-06 should have BUIS.    :stir:

[mikegideon]

Nope, just the rings.

 

We got a terminology problem. I meant rings. And if they are wrapped around a scope, you are seeing thru them. Get it? :)

[gregintenn]

We got a terminology problem. I meant rings. And if they are wrapped around a scope, you are seeing thru them. Get it? :)

You know what I'm talking about. The 30-30 lever, or 742 Rem with the hubble telescope mounted on top, about a foot above the bore.

[DaveTN]

We got a terminology problem. I meant rings. And if they are wrapped around a scope, you are seeing thru them. Get it? :)

You are supposed to put a scope in those rings? I thought those holes were awfully big. Great FOV view though.

[kckndrgn]

Why???

I actually prefer them.  I have 2 Marlin 30-30's, one is mine (well both are now mine but...) the other was my fathers.  Both are scoped, but mine has the see through rings to allow using the iron sights or the scope, my dads is just the scope, rear sight was removed.  Additionally on his the hammer extension piece (put a tab on the hammer so you can cock it) had to be filed down to accommodate the scope.

 

I have my 2 ruger 10/22's setup the same way with see through mounts.  As I said it's my preferred setup, to each their own.

[Grunt67]

I used the see-thru mounts and also the swing over mounts for years on a Rem 742 BDL 30-06. Also on a Win. Mod 70 in .270.  Never had an issue. Doesn't mean it can't happen, like anything else. Just my own personal exp. from years ago.

[Omega]

Why???

I actually prefer them.  I have 2 Marlin 30-30's, one is mine (well both are now mine but...) the other was my fathers.  Both are scoped, but mine has the see through rings to allow using the iron sights or the scope, my dads is just the scope, rear sight was removed.  Additionally on his the hammer extension piece (put a tab on the hammer so you can cock it) had to be filed down to accommodate the scope.

 

I have my 2 ruger 10/22's setup the same way with see through mounts.  As I said it's my preferred setup, to each their own.

That is the setup I had for the longest, but never ever used the iron sights.  The issue with having see through mounts is that it puts the scope pretty high off the bore of the rifle, which makes it so you have to move the crosshairs a lot just to get it sighted in and you lose some of the scopes adjustment.  The closer the scope is to the bore, usually about 1", the better, that way you have most of the scopes adjustments available to you.  For me at the time it made sense to be able to use both iron and optical, and with a .22s range it was possible.  But I even did it to my .270 and 30/06 and at over 100 yards it was darn near impossible for me to make out how many points if any a deer had so always used a scope set at a minimum of 4 power.  Now its all optical or red dot sights for me on my hunting rifles and my one handgun, on my plinkers I sometime use the irons to keep myself sharp but mostly its scope there too.  But as you said, to each their own.

[zgunbear]

If the see through rings are steel there are fewer issues however if they are aluminum there can be a lot of issues. Sometomes they are not heat treated well and the weight of the scope under recoil can cause the zero to wander. While gunsmithing and working as a range officer I have seen quite a few that had this issue. Some where so soft you could cause it by twisting the scope by hand even with all the screws torqued correctly.

[zgunbear]

Sorry double tapped Edited March 9, 2016 by zgunbear

[mikegideon]

That is the setup I had for the longest, but never ever used the iron sights.  The issue with having see through mounts is that it puts the scope pretty high off the bore of the rifle, which makes it so you have to move the crosshairs a lot just to get it sighted in and you lose some of the scopes adjustment.  The closer the scope is to the bore, usually about 1", the better, that way you have most of the scopes adjustments available to you. 

 

The difference scope adjustment is really insignificant. With a 308 load, 100 yard zero, the difference in zero between a scope mounted 2 1/2" and 1" above the bore is only 1 1/2 MOA. There can easily be more slop than that in the way the rings are cut. In the example below, the 1" over bore zero was 3.509 MOA (up) and the 2.5" was 4.942 moa.

 

Now, the gun with the scope mounted 2 1/2" over the bore will shoot 2 1/2" low at the muzzle, so there will be a greater difference in point of aim/point of impact all the way to the zero distance. That's the real reason to mount a scope low. Since I mess mostly with AR's these days, I'm really stuck with 2 1/5" over, cause there's no drop in an AR stock. If you are shooting up close, you just gotta hold high.

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by mikegideon

[gregintenn]

Actually, a proper cheek weld is of greater concern to me than the other issues.

[mikegideon]

Actually, a proper cheek weld is of greater concern to me than the other issues.

 

You can always wad up a sock. :) 

[Handsome Rob]

I have a pretty nice museum of mounts going on in my cabinet, all of which are the see-thru variety, all of which were taken off of Tennessee three hundred dollar bills (336 30-30s)
I detest the things passionately. Crap-to-no-cheek weld, wobbly zeroes, at least one screw is ALWAYS cross-threaded/stripped & they look like a broken tooth in a super model's head. Add a padded, tooled leather sling (4"wide) & you've got disgusting in a nutshell.

[Omega]

You can always wad up a sock. :)

Then what will I put in my pocket? I may just have to go out and get a 10mm too!

[mikegideon]

Use one of those socks that comes out of the dryer by itself. 

[Peace]

^^ giving lonely socks new life since 1968.    :hat:

[gregintenn]

You can always wad up a sock. :)

Yeah.....or I could properly mount a scope.

[ttocswob]

I swapped the rail on my 336 35 Remington for a set of sight thru rings, as the rail was blocking the open sights. Scope height ended up about the same. Makes for a versatile setup. Great for mist/fog, or just for that deer that walks right under your tree stand.

 

I also have sight thru rings on my muzzleloader. Same reason.

[xtriggerman]

Well, I suppose I can add one more thing here. Back in 79, I attended Pennsylvania Gunsmithing School and a good part of that 18 month full time school was all about building custom rifles from blanks. Once all the physical attributes of the custom rifle's owner were properly converted to stock dimensions such as trigger pull length, drop of the comb off the line of sight, butt plate pitch and drop, the final test was simple. The rifle's owner was instructed to stand at a ready rifle position with a visual target in mind, close his eyes while looking at the target. Shoulder the rifle in one swift move and open his eyes. If the rifle "fit" him, he should be pretty darn close to have overlaid cross hairs on the target.
A comfortable cheek weld at line of sight becomes a bit more prevalent for Trap/Skeet/bird hunters since time on target is in seconds. Not so much for deer hunters. I prefer a low as you can go scope on a rifle in classic Weaver rings simply because they are light weight and can be quickly screwed off the bases with the back edge of a knife to get at irons. You can throw all sorts of money at QD rings but Weavers work on everything. If I were to mount them on big kickers, put a dab of basic rubber cement in the ring saddle before you tighten em down. I tested that out on a Win 70 375 H&H that would clover leaf factory ammo consistently out of a cold barrel and the scope never budged.
2 extreme examples of a high comb offering good line of "scope sight" check welds are here in these 2 I built years ago.

[gregintenn]

Well, I suppose I can add one more thing here. Back in 79, I attended Pennsylvania Gunsmithing School and a good part of that 18 month full time school was all about building custom rifles from blanks. Once all the physical attributes of the custom rifle's owner were properly converted to stock dimensions such as trigger pull length, drop of the comb off the line of sight, butt plate pitch and drop, the final test was simple. The rifle's owner was instructed to stand at a ready rifle position with a visual target in mind, close his eyes while looking at the target. Shoulder the rifle in one swift move and open his eyes. If the rifle "fit" him, he should be pretty darn close to have overlaid cross hairs on the target.
A comfortable cheek weld at line of sight becomes a bit more prevalent for Trap/Skeet/bird hunters since time on target is in seconds. Not so much for deer hunters. I prefer a low as you can go scope on a rifle in classic Weaver rings simply because they are light weight and can be quickly screwed off the bases with the back edge of a knife to get at irons. You can throw all sorts of money at QD rings but Weavers work on everything. If I were to mount them on big kickers, put a dab of basic rubber cement in the ring saddle before you tighten em down. I tested that out on a Win 70 375 H&H that would clover leaf factory ammo consistently out of a cold barrel and the scope never budged.
2 extreme examples of a high comb offering good line of "scope sight" check welds are here in these 2 I built years ago.

Welcome to the forum, and nice work!!! :hat:

 

You give good advice about the Weaver rings. You can buy prettier and you can buy fancier, but if you want something that'll simply work, the old steel Weaver rings are the gold standard.

[Wingshooter]

I used to put the see-thru rings on my deer rifles, but about 10 years ago I started mouting them as low as I can. I like the scope low and close to the bore.

I did recently buy a used 336 in 35rem that still has the see-thru type. I had plans to change the rings on it and lower the scope... until I shot it. It has a fixed 4x Nikon scope, and the thing is dialed in. This gun will shoot sub-moa off the bench. It has a lot of visual exterior wear and appears to have been carried in the woods A LOT by someone. I've decided to keep it like it is for a while. The high rings are not my favorite, but it works for this gun.