Recent "Carport Break In" Riverside Plantation, West Nashville

[DaveTN]

Yea, nothing in the law that says you can't confront a trespasser or thief and the law also says if someone threatens your life you can use deadly force. They will be confronted.

If you corner them and the only way to get away is past you; you don’t get to execute them and then say you were in fear. You can try it; but you will probably stand trial. That’s the part I was pointing out to the OP. You do whatever you are ready to take responsibility for. I'm not killing anyone I don't have to; the law doesn't let us do that anymore.

[K191145]

If you corner them and the only way to get away is past you; you don’t get to execute them and then say you were in fear. You can try it; but you will probably stand trial. That’s the part I was pointing out to the OP. You do whatever you are ready to take responsibility for. I'm not killing anyone I don't have to; the law doesn't let us do that anymore.

 

There's a difference between executing someone and protecting your life, it's the criminals decision to stop their activity and not threaten my life, if they threaten my life then it's their fault if they get shot or not. It's a DA's responsibility to prove if you were not justified and if there's no witness except you and them they have to take your word for it. I.E. the Trayvon Martin case. 

It's a wonder these days why so many are taking the criminals side against the victims.

[K191145]

Strange that the Cheatham County deputy didn't lecture me about getting involved in a possible burglary the last time my brothers alarm went off, which turned out to be a false alarm but I went there armed before I knew it was a false alarm. 

[Roche]

What, planning on confronting someone trespassing on your property? Planning to protect yourself against possible death or bodily harm? Don't give a woopdeedoo what the shelf life on an internet post is. Go back a re-read what I said in the original post.

They will be confronted.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.   Question - God forbid you ever have a tool shed that doesn't have much confrontation occur; does your planning include representing yourself in court?

[enfield]

They are giving you bad advice. Even if the shoot is good they can charge you with evidence tampering. Shoot them and leave them lay.

I would. That advice came a long time ago.

[K191145]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.   Question - God forbid you ever have a tool shed that doesn't have much confrontation occur; does your planning include representing yourself in court?

 

Don't have to when you wont be charged in the first place for defending your life. I don't live in New Jersey. 

[Hershmeister]

Ya'll realize the OP has a grand total of 2 posts on TGO, and has gotten some crazy ass statements replies...just saying-

[bersaguy]

I would hope I am never faced with another issue like I had back when they tried to raid my Bass Boat of about 8,000.00 worth of high end rods and reels and I don't know that I could kill a person over them since I do have them insured but if I had a tazer and my gun I would like to at least light one of them up light up like 4th of July................jmho

[teecro]

Bersaguy I have to admit that sounds like the most fun one could have with their pants on......

[monkeylizard]

Ultimate Tazer Ball, anyone?

 

http://www.sportsgrid.com/video/ultimate-tazer-ball-is-the-shocking-new-sport-that-will-have-you-shaking-your-head-video/

Edited April 27, 2016 by monkeylizard

[bersaguy]

Ultimate Tazer Ball, anyone?

 

http://www.sportsgrid.com/video/ultimate-tazer-ball-is-the-shocking-new-sport-that-will-have-you-shaking-your-head-video/

That was pretty cool but with mine I don't have to make contact with the perp. I can be as far as 10 feet away and light them up. And if they don't go down on first contact I can just press the button and get them another jolt.  I would be nice and give them a chance to get face down and wait for the :cop: but that would be their decision from that point forward................. :pleased: 

[chances R]

K191145, not trying to take sides, but to me, shooting someone is the last thing on my list.  In your posts, which IMO could be used against you, I don't think you are leaving yourself much wiggle room.  Really doesn't matter what a deputy thinks.  It may come to a jury that matters.  I understand the concept of self-defense, but pushing the issue over property may not be worth your time and money.  Not saying let anyone kart your stuff off.  But again in reference to your posts and your defense I think even your avatar will be used against you.

[Omega]

You don't need wiggle room.  The law states you can confront someone steeling your stuff, the law says you can use physical force against someone stealing your stuff.  The law says you are allowed to defend yourself with lethal force if you believe your life or your family's life is in danger. What wiggle room is needed?  I can definitely state right now that if I see someone stealing my stuff, they will be confronted, I don't rightly care what worth the stuff has, it's mine and only I will decide to dispose of my stuff how I see fit.  I also hope I don't need to take another human life, specially an American Life; but when it comes down to it, I'll bite, pull hair and use a 2x4 to defend myself and yes a firearm too and damn the consequences.  Does that mean a thief's life isn't worth that much to me?  No, it means that the sanctity of my home and property mean that much to me, what a thief's life is worth I will leave that up to the thief; because ultimately he is the one that will choose the direction the confrontation will take.

[K191145]

You don't need wiggle room.  The law states you can confront someone steeling your stuff, the law says you can use physical force against someone stealing your stuff.  The law says you are allowed to defend yourself with lethal force if you believe your life or your family's life is in danger. What wiggle room is needed?  I can definitely state right now that if I see someone stealing my stuff, they will be confronted, I don't rightly care what worth the stuff has, it's mine and only I will decide to dispose of my stuff how I see fit.  I also hope I don't need to take another human life, specially an American Life; but when it comes down to it, I'll bite, pull hair and use a 2x4 to defend myself and yes a firearm too and damn the consequences.  Does that mean a thief's life isn't worth that much to me?  No, it means that the sanctity of my home and property mean that much to me, what a thief's life is worth I will leave that up to the thief; because ultimately he is the one that will choose the direction the confrontation will take.

 

THIS.

[K191145]

K191145, not trying to take sides, but to me, shooting someone is the last thing on my list.  In your posts, which IMO could be used against you, I don't think you are leaving yourself much wiggle room.  Really doesn't matter what a deputy thinks.  It may come to a jury that matters.  I understand the concept of self-defense, but pushing the issue over property may not be worth your time and money.  Not saying let anyone kart your stuff off.  But again in reference to your posts and your defense I think even your avatar will be used against you.

 

There's nothing I said in any post that can't be torn apart by a good defense lawyer no matter how some DA tries to BS some jury. Did I say I was going in guns ablazing? NO. I said, I would confront them and actually would let them leave "IF" they didn't try to to attack me. I'm also sure that on your own property you can confront someone who's not supposed to be there with your hand on the grip of your exposed gun, you don't even need a carry permit. If a thief or trespasser see's that and still comes after you then obviously he has clear intent to do you harm, if he's close enough then he has clear opportunity to do you harm, and if he's big enough and crazy enough to come after an armed homeowner he has the capability to do you real harm, all three requirements are met for use of deadly force, Intent, opportunity, and capability. Also, I said in another post we don't live in New Jersey, I happen to live in Cheatham County Tennessee where a jury will be picked of people who will not likely take sides with some POS thief with most likely a long criminal record, against a law abiding homeowner who has a spotless record. I have been on a Cheatham County jury before. 

I'll say it again "THEY WILL BE CONFRONTED".  

[101]

I think we might be missing something here.  I am pretty sure you can display and wield your weapon to stop a thief.  I just renewed my security license and that question came up.

 

Answer: yes, you may draw down on a thief to prevent theft or fleeing.  Can you shoot him if he does not comply?  No, unless he attempts to over power or come at you.  Then you are covered by the self defense law.  When the thief decides to up the activity from thieving to assault it changes the whole dynamic.

 

The instructor used a real life scenario such as this.  Thief was breaking into a man's work truck at night.  He confronts thief, with gun out, who appears to be complying but suddenly charges the owner of the truck.  Owner shot him right as his body fell on top of the owner.

 

The cops showed up and assessed the scenario and asked the owner why it took him so long to shot the thief.  He was already committing a crime, so he showed intent to do criminal harm and once he started charging the owner he upped the game to the next level.  Cops told him he was lucky because the charging thief could have had a knife.  Cops said owner was in reasonable fear for his life, and he was right to shoot.

 

I agree that you can't shoot a guy with a TV in his hands, but you can use your weapon as a deterrent when a crime is being committed.  If he runs away, let him go.  If he changes from thief to assailant, shot him.

 

Kidnapping came up also.  You may use deadly force to prevent a kidnapping, regardless if the kidnapper has a weapon or not.

[Roche]

Don't have to when you wont be charged in the first place for defending your life. I don't live in New Jersey.

Well your confident of the future, even in this hypothetical scenerio. If given the chance, I'm confident you would represent yourself.

[K191145]

I think we might be missing something here.  I am pretty sure you can display and wield your weapon to stop a thief.  I just renewed my security license and that question came up.

 

Answer: yes, you may draw down on a thief to prevent theft or fleeing.  Can you shoot him if he does not comply?  No, unless he attempts to over power or come at you.  Then you are covered by the self defense law.  When the thief decides to up the activity from thieving to assault it changes the whole dynamic.

 

The instructor used a real life scenario such as this.  Thief was breaking into a man's work truck at night.  He confronts thief, with gun out, who appears to be complying but suddenly charges the owner of the truck.  Owner shot him right as his body fell on top of the owner.

 

The cops showed up and assessed the scenario and asked the owner why it took him so long to shot the thief.  He was already committing a crime, so he showed intent to do criminal harm and once he started charging the owner he upped the game to the next level.  Cops told him he was lucky because the charging thief could have had a knife.  Cops said owner was in reasonable fear for his life, and he was right to shoot.

 

I agree that you can't shoot a guy with a TV in his hands, but you can use your weapon as a deterrent when a crime is being committed.  If he runs away, let him go.  If he changes from thief to assailant, shot him.

 

Kidnapping came up also.  You may use deadly force to prevent a kidnapping, regardless if the kidnapper has a weapon or not.

 

Thank you. Some here were assuming I was just going to start shooting if someone was in my tool shed stealing my yard sale tools, I keep the expensive stuff in my house. What I said I will confront them, then it is up to them as what they decide to do next. If they read my post they would have known I would let them run away if that's what they choose, then I said if they came after me I would use my gun. If they attempt to attack me and get shot, it's 100% all their fault. Now as far as what value my junk in the shed is, most all not worth much money but there's something far more valuable to consider, it's called principles, that I am willing to take a risk to defend.

[K191145]

[URL=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JMH42/media/Open%20Range_zpsaxrlyf1x.jpg.html][/URL]

[DaveTN]

When the thief decides to up the activity from thieving to assault it changes the whole dynamic.

Exactly. In danger of death or great bodily harm.
Now you can add all the “what if’s” or BS war stories to that you want. We could fill this thread with stories of folks that shot someone in self-defense and were not charged, or we could fill it with stories of folks that are in prison because they mistakenly thought they could simply tell someone they were in fear of their life after shooting someone.

The direction of this thread was a question about the laws of this state; not a “what would you do” thread. So that’s what some of us are addressing. You need to understand the laws and be clear on what they say; and their intent. You need to understand that a bunch of people will judge everything you did. The difference is that they will have days or weeks to judge the decision you made in a couple of seconds.

No one here is trying to say that you can’t defend yourself with deadly force. But you are either naïve or don’t understand the law if you believe you can kill someone that is trying to escape and then claim self-defense. It may have worked in some cases, but who wants to risk prison, or the cost of a criminal trial to find out.

The specifics of every cases are different and are judged on their own merit. We have seen that clearly in some of the cases we have discussed on this forum.

[JayC]

In all fairness Dave, in TN under current law, a carport is the same as your house for purposes of self defense.  If you shoot somebody who has unlawfully entered the garage or carport, then it's assumed under the law you had a reasonable fear, the DA would have to prove in court beyond a reasonable doubt you didn't have such fear.

 

I don't believe the 'reasonable person' test comes into play at all, because under the law it's assumed that a reasonable person would be in fear for their life in somebody unlawfully enters dwellings on their property.

 

I think everybody is missing the current status of state law...  Finding a thief in your garage or carport is no different than finding a thief in your home under TN state law.  And our 'castle doctrine' immediately kicks in...  It's assumed under state law that you have a reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death by the mere fact that they unlawfully enter your dwelling.

 

If somebody breaks into your home, no matter the reason, you're under no obligation to offer them quarter, or wait until they charge you after confronting them...  If they are unlawfully in your home, you're assumed to have a reasonable fear and are free to defend yourself.  You're under no obligation to give them a way to escape, and they have no right to self defense in that situation.  There is no requirement to use proportional force, you're free to escalate immediately to deadly force if you feel the is the best way to remove the threat.

 

And under the plain reading of state law, your garage, and any building on your property with a roof are the same as your home.

 

Okay, we get it. But that isn’t what he asked. He asked a question about the use of force in this state. And it does matter who thinks what; no one gives a rolling rip down a razor blade what you think. Between a good Prosecutor and the judge’s instructions the jury will be considering what THEY (a reasonable person) would have done. And if they find beyond reasonable doubt that you were not in immediate danger of death or great bodily harm; you go to prison. And that is the fact. Many people ask these questions because they know that not only do they have a duty to protect their family; they have a duty to their family to stay out of prison.

I remember a time when I could shoot a fleeing burglar; and believe that is the way it should still be. But it isn’t.

Edited April 28, 2016 by JayC

[Obiwan]

But if you have fear of death or grave bodily harm, because you know or strongly suspect that a threat is present in shed/garage/whatever-structure, you wouldn't be entering said structure, would you? If you willfully enter it, knowing there is a threat, how can you still be considered "in fear for your life"? 

[jgradyc]

I don't have a carport, my car is parked beside the house,  but I've given this scenario some thought. 

 

1. I never keep anything of value in my car overnight. 

2. I'd turn on the floodlights without calling out or showing myself. That would chase away the thief without putting myself at risk.

3. I'd carry a long gun and go out on the upper deck, which gives me the high ground and some cover.

4. I'd call the police.

 

I'm NOT going to risk going to court over shooting some POS meth addict stealing my old flip flops or sunglasses. I'm not going to attempt a citizen's arrest. What if the guy has an accomplice you haven't seen yet? I'm not going to put myself at higher risk. I have a responsibility to my family to keep my personal risk as low as possible and not risk escalating a scenario. 

 

If I were the OP, I'd wire a motion sensor outdoor floodlight at my car that would ding in the house. I'd also invest in a super bright flashlight. 

Edited April 29, 2016 by jgradyc

[bersaguy]

About 3 years ago I had a buddy of mine put motion lights on my house and I feel much better now. I have 2 that light up my carport light daylight and 6 pairs that are all around my house and no one can get with in 40 feet of my house without tripping a light on. And if they try to move move in about any direction they will trip more lights. He came back about a week later and installed a door bell inside the house that rings if the lights are tripped. I learned one thing shortly after the lights were installed. I live in town about a 1-1/2 miles from main shopping area and Walmart and I have deer that live in the fence row behind my house. I was wondering why all the corn and food I was putting out for the rabbits was dissappearing so quick!! Now I know................ :up:   

[JayC]

I don't there is any TN case law on that point, but the plain reading of the law would not remove your assumption of the fear...  Just because you're afraid of a threat does not require that you retreat from your dwelling, nor does it prevent you from confronting the threat.

 

A home is a man's castle, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a TN DA willing to take most of these examples to trail, for 1 getting the case bounced or the bad press they'd get.  The fact is most people don't like the thought of a known bad guy breaking into their house, and they tend to make very unsympathetic 'victims'.

 

But if you have fear of death or grave bodily harm, because you know or strongly suspect that a threat is present in shed/garage/whatever-structure, you wouldn't be entering said structure, would you? If you willfully enter it, knowing there is a threat, how can you still be considered "in fear for your life"?