Taurus/Rossi Circuit Judge Buttstock Cracking

[Sidewinder]

I have a Taurus/Rossi Circuit Judge Model SCJ 4510 carbine. For those unfamiliar, this is a 45 Colt/.410 carbine, with a cylinder like a revolver. Some have composite furniture, but mine has wood. First problem is that mine developed cracks in the forward area, where the buttstock joins the frame/receiver. Second problem is that it developed these cracks with less than 75 rounds through it, due to inferior wood. I called Rossi and they agreed it was a problem with the wood buttstocks, and a customer service lady got permission to order me a new buttstock. That was in October of last year!

 

Third problem is that I have been given the run-around ever since. I've talked to at least eight customer service reps since then, all of which were nice, but blowing the smoke their boss has given them. They claim to have shifted from the wood and buttstocks that were made in Brazil, to supposedly a better company that uses better wood. I was told this a few months ago. When questioned about where my replacement buttstock is, they now say that the buttstocks are in production, but they're trying to build up inventory, so they can mail them to everyone, without showing favoritism. 

 

I feel they are slinging BS my way to put me off indefinitely. The gun is like new, with the box, paperwork, and all accessories. But, I can't do anything with it... I can't use it, sell it, or trade it, in it's current condition. Does anyone have any idea how I can get some help, in forcing them to stand behind their promise to send me a new buttstock? I like the gun. It's a lot of fun to shoot, and is a very handy gun to have around. But... Rossi's customer service is pathetic at best, and dishonest at worse.

 

I appreciate all suggestions on how I could get them to keep their promise to me of sending me a replacement buttstock. Thanks for allowing me to vent my frustrations. Chuck

Edited February 24, 2016 by Sidewinder

[enfield]

How about repairing yours while you wait?

[peejman]

Do you have any sort of account or claim number?  If so, I'd email everyone I could find about it, daily.  If you had one particular customer service rep that seemed more helpful than others, request that person when you call.  Eventually, they'll get tired of hearing from you and do something about it.  If you're not satisfied that they're addressing the issue, ask to speak with that person's boss.  In both email and in person, politely express your frustration with the apparent lack of direction and general poor customer service. 

 

That said, put up a couple photos of the stock.  Perhaps it can be fixed well enough to use in the mean time. 

[jgradyc]

If you want to sell it, pm me. I don't care if the stock is cracked. I've posted a "Wanted: Circuit Judge... any condition" ad in the classifieds to keep it within the rules of TGO. 

 

I've always wanted a pair of matching 45 caliber revolvers.  :biglol:

[Sidewinder]

How about repairing yours while you wait?

I thought of that, but want it in the original condition in case I have to return it.

[Sidewinder]

Do you have any sort of account or claim number?  If so, I'd email everyone I could find about it, daily.  If you had one particular customer service rep that seemed more helpful than others, request that person when you call.  Eventually, they'll get tired of hearing from you and do something about it.  If you're not satisfied that they're addressing the issue, ask to speak with that person's boss.  In both email and in person, politely express your frustration with the apparent lack of direction and general poor customer service. 

 

That said, put up a couple photos of the stock.  Perhaps it can be fixed well enough to use in the mean time. 

peejman, thanks for the suggestions. I do have an order number and use it every time I call or email Rossi. I'd hate to make this thing a full time job. I'd rather they just do the right thing and send me a replacement stock. I don't want to attempt any fix on the stock, as I feel they may want it back for a new one.

[Sidewinder]

If you want to sell it, pm me. I don't care if the stock is cracked. I've posted a "Wanted: Circuit Judge... any condition" ad in the classifieds to keep it within the rules of TGO. 

 

I've always wanted a pair of matching 45 caliber revolvers.  :biglol:

jgradyc, I will probably offer it up for trade once I get the new buttstock on it. I don't want to take a loss on a like new gun because of a faulty buttstock, when I have a new and improved one coming....someday. The customer service reps are telling me that they are building the stocks out of a different kind of wood, and that they are in production.

[jgradyc]

jgradyc, I will probably offer it up for trade once I get the new buttstock on it. I don't want to take a loss on a like new gun because of a faulty buttstock, when I have a new and improved one coming....someday. The customer service reps are telling me that they are building the stocks out of a different kind of wood, and that they are in production.

Sure, that was just a spur of the moment thing. I would suggest that you ask Rossi to replace the cracked stock with the black polymer stock. That's what I have and I think it looks better than wood, but your opinion might be different. That's what I would have done from day one.

Edited February 25, 2016 by jgradyc

[Sidewinder]

Sure, that was just a spur of the moment thing. I would suggest that you ask Rossi to replace the cracked stock with the black polymer stock. That's what I have and I think it looks better than wood, but your opinion might be different. That's what I would have done from day one.

Actually, they never made that offer and honestly, I'm probably a bit old fashioned, but I prefer wood on all of my guns, except those that will take a beating in the field... duck hunting and varmint hunting mostly. Also, the CS rep said that they were getting a much better wood than what they used before that was from Brazil. Not sure if it'll be walnut, but sure would be nice if it was. I like the little gun, I just think the wood and it's finish left a lot to be desired. Mine's blued, but wish it was stainless. I will keep after them. I've noticed there have been a lot of views on this thread. Maybe they'll realize a lot of potential customers are witnessing how they treat their current customers. Also note that the box for my Circuit Judge is labeled "Taurus/Rossi". I would think Taurus should be concerned about the reputation of "non support" they're getting through Rossi failing to take care of a factory defect in their product. IMHO.

[Handsome Rob]

From my own experiences with Rossi's customer service, they WILL come through for you.
I've had 2 rifles & a pistol back to them in the past few years (not for any manufacturing fault, other than a bent barrel) & their service has been nothing short of excellent. They've always done exactly what they said they would.

[graycrait]

When you get your new stock and if they say, "Keep the old one," order the appropriate Bob Smith product to repair the old one.   http://www.bsi-inc.com/hobby/hobby.html

Edited February 26, 2016 by graycrait

[Oh Shoot]

From my own experiences with Rossi's customer service, they WILL come through for you.

 

Someday. Many seem to have experienced the Taurus "forever warranty" as meaning it takes forever to get it done. ;)

 

- OS

[Sidewinder]

From my own experiences with Rossi's customer service, they WILL come through for you.
I've had 2 rifles & a pistol back to them in the past few years (not for any manufacturing fault, other than a bent barrel) & their service has been nothing short of excellent. They've always done exactly what they said they would.

Robtattoo, I'm encouraged to hear you've had good service from their customer service department. I've had excellent service from the "Taurus" side customer service, in the past. I don't know if the Taurus/Rossi relationship is joined at the hip, or if it's two separate entities, but I'd like to have a little more of that Taurus excellent customer service!

[Sidewinder]

When you get your new stock and if they say, "Keep the old one," order the appropriate Bob Smith product to repair the old one.   http://www.bsi-inc.com/hobby/hobby.html

Graycrait, thanks for the heads up on this product. Currently, the cracks in my butt-stock are only hairline cracks. They are hard to see, unless you know they are there and are looking for them. I didn't find them myself! I met a guy to do a gun trade, and when he was visually inspecting my Circuit Judge he said, "your stock is cracked"... to which I replied, "no way". His eyesight is better than my tired old eyes, so he proceeded to show me where it was cracked. I honestly didn't know it was cracked, especially with so few rounds through it. I tell you all of this to ask if this product will repair these hairline cracks? At one time I considered asking them for the "Tuffy" setup furniture, but found out it was short... like a youth stock.

[Sidewinder]

Someday. Many seem to have experienced the Taurus "forever warranty" as meaning it takes forever to get it done. ;)

 

- OS

Yeah, OS, I guess that is exactly what I'm experiencing now. I have been waiting since October of last year. The Circuit Judge stock looks a lot like my Thompson Center Contender stocks to me. So, it looks like they could get the same manufacturer to build stocks for them.... they put me off for the longest, saying they were looking for a US manufacturer. Don't know what the replacement stock will be made out of, but it would be nice if it was walnut....which I highly doubt it will be.

[graycrait]

Sidewinder,

 

A fella sent me his beloved 60 yr old walnut stock that had dropped off a wall rack and had 3 cracks in the wrist.  Am I gunstock repairman, no, just a guy who likes to figure things out, plus he was a brother of an old Army buddy of mine.  I made a couple of reversible mistakes and then found the ultra thin Bob Smith super glue.

 

That Bob Smith ultra thin will migrate through a hairline crack. It works fast too so get ready when you spread some along the crack to clamp it or strap it or squeeze it. You can wait a couple of seconds but not too long. If you can separate the crack even a little bit it would help the glue to migrate but it is so thin it will penetrate likely enough.  Some knife makers use it to penetrate wood grain to make their own "stabilized" wood handles.  

 

Concentrate on one crack at a time.  If you get some or a bunch on the stock be ready to wipe it off and you will need to sand the excess glue off, maybe hit with a bit a stain and put a couple of coats of Tru Oil on the stock to get an even finish.  If you feel it is necessary then completely strip the stock before you do any of this so that you can refinish it completely, evenly.

 

That ultra thin comes with a pointed tip but that stuff is thinner than water and tends to run so you might want to plan on a complete strip, repair and refinish job.

 

I had this cheap ugly old walnut wood stock that was 70 yrs old with a rotten spot and a big wide deep divit and was able to build up those spots with this glue in fairly fast order by just sanding over the spot, adding glue, wipe off, let dry in seconds then sand, glue and wipeoff over and over.  It doesn't look NIB or ever close but those spots are level and stabilized for another 70yrs or more. It took me probably an hour of work time to strip it, fix the holes and give it a quicky refinish job.  This was for my single shot '46/'47 Savage 3D 24" barrel backyard CB Long shooting quiet suburban varmint gun.  Got it for a 100 bucks, still a hundred buck rifle, but at least the stock is clean.  I had to clean a mudd dauber nest out between the trigger guard and stock.  The fella I got it from must have had it in the barn for a long time.

Edited February 27, 2016 by graycrait

[Sidewinder]

Sidewinder,

 

A fella sent me his beloved 60 yr old walnut stock that had dropped off a wall rack and had 3 cracks in the wrist.  Am I gunstock repairman, no, just a guy who likes to figure things out, plus he was a brother of an old Army buddy of mine.  I made a couple of reversible mistakes and then found the ultra thin Bob Smith super glue.

 

That Bob Smith ultra thin will migrate through a hairline crack. It works fast too so get ready when you spread some along the crack to clamp it or strap it or squeeze it. You can wait a couple of seconds but not too long. If you can separate the crack even a little bit it would help the glue to migrate but it is so thin it will penetrate likely enough.  Some knife makers use it to penetrate wood grain to make their own "stabilized" wood handles.  

 

Concentrate on one crack at a time.  If you get some or a bunch on the stock be ready to wipe it off and you will need to sand the excess glue off, maybe hit with a bit a stain and put a couple of coats of Tru Oil on the stock to get an even finish.  If you feel it is necessary then completely strip the stock before you do any of this so that you can refinish it completely, evenly.

 

That ultra thin comes with a pointed tip but that stuff is thinner than water and tends to run so you might want to plan on a complete strip, repair and refinish job.

 

I had this cheap ugly old walnut wood stock that was 70 yrs old with a rotten spot and a big wide deep divit and was able to build up those spots with this glue in fairly fast order by just sanding over the spot, adding glue, wipe off, let dry in seconds then sand, glue and wipeoff over and over.  It doesn't look NIB or ever close but those spots are level and stabilized for another 70yrs or more. It took me probably an hour of work time to strip it, fix the holes and give it a quicky refinish job.  This was for my single shot '46/'47 Savage 3D 24" barrel backyard CB Long shooting quiet suburban varmint gun.  Got it for a 100 bucks, still a hundred buck rifle, but at least the stock is clean.  I had to clean a mudd dauber nest out between the trigger guard and stock.  The fella I got it from must have had it in the barn for a long time.

Graycrait,

 

It sounds like this is some good wood glue. Like I said, I only have hairline cracks and haven't removed the stock to see if they're all the way through. This being said, if I'm allowed to keep the stock after I get the new one, I'll probably attempt a repair. I have a concern about trying to open these cracks mechanically, so I hope that this glue is capable of "wicking" into the crack. I may not get a chance to find out, as they may require me to put the cracked stock in the box and send it back to them. Right now, I'd like to see my new replacement stock show up!

[graycrait]

If they let you keep the stock just apply the glue as is and let it wick itself through as much of the crack it will migrate.  This stuff is thin so will move on its own in several seconds. I was shocked when I first applied it.  If you get a 2oz bottle that should last you for the next decade. 

[Sidewinder]

If they let you keep the stock just apply the glue as is and let it wick itself through as much of the crack it will migrate.  This stuff is thin so will move on its own in several seconds. I was shocked when I first applied it.  If you get a 2oz bottle that should last you for the next decade. 

Thanks for the additional info. If they let me keep the stock I'll definitely be giving it a try. A thought just crossed my mind... if they change wood on the buttstock, the forearm may not match the buttstock. Hopefully, if it's that much of a miss-match, they'll send me a new forearm too. But like Oh Shoot says, it could be forever before I see anything from Rossie.

[Sidewinder]

Rossi customer service update... still... nothing has happened! They claimed to have placed a new butt-stock on order for me, as some will recall, in October of last year!!! I contact them frequently, by phone, chat, and email... and their script is unchanged. They did say they would send me a replacement gun sometime back, but I had to send them my gun first! I asked them if they would be sending me one right back and if so, when should I expect to get the new replacement gun. I was told that they could not say when I'd get my replacement gun, even though I had sent mine back in.

They even sent me a shipping label, but if it's taken almost a year... and they've been unable to produce a butt-stock... how many years for them to produce a replacement gun at my door! Us old guys don't even buy green bananas! Bottom line, I don't trust them, I don't believe them, and I don't see how they stay in business, treating customers the way they have treated me. Maybe some of you have had good customer service from them... and if you have, I consider you one of the lucky ones.

If anyone has any pull at Rossi, or knows anyone at Rossi, or knows how to get them to step up to the plate and stand behind their product, I'd love to hear about it. I think Boyds makes a stock for this gun. I've even suggested they have Bouds ship me one and I'd ship my cracked one on to them. Also, I've suggested they use one of their retail sales outlets as an escrow, Wal-Mart, Cabella's, Bass Pro, or a local gun store, that have a Circuit Judge in stock. I take my gun to them and turn it in. They, in turn, give me a new one. I'd even be willing to go through a background check. They claim that they can't do business that way. They keep telling me that they don't have any guns at their factory in Miami, and can't tell me when Brazil will be sending them any guns! I don't understand how they stay in business! May Day - May Day - May Day, can anyone help?

Mine is not an isolated case...check out this problem on Google and U-Tube.

[Sidewinder]

November Update... still no butt-stock. This stuff wears a person out! Maybe that's their plan...stick to the script that it's on order, until I finally go away. I don't think I've ever been treated by any well known business like Rossi/Taurus in my life. On a call or two back, the customer service rep hinted that they "may" get some butt-stocks in by the end of the year. She also said there was a waiting list ahead of me! This whole thing is like a bad dream that just goes on and on. This butt-stock was ordered on 10-26-16.

[Sidewinder]

Still nothing from Rossi... been waiting since October 26, 2015! I haven't fired my Taurus/Rossi Circuit Judge .45Colt/.410 since I found the hairline cracks in the butt-stock. Less than 50 rounds through it. Maybe Santa has some connections at Rossi... Merry Christmas Rossi.

 

[Ronald_55]

From my experience if you have this long of an issue going on, then it needs to be "escalated".

Call back in, identify the issue and order number very calm and polite. Tell the operator that this has been going on forever and you would like to "escalate to their supervisor." In most call centers these are magic words that can't be denied. I should know, I have worked in several. If the supervisor tells you they can't help, the ask them the same thing. At some point, you might have to wait on a call back, but there is someone that can help you. If they say there is no one else to talk to, ask to talk to ANTHONY ACITELLI - PRESIDENT AND CEO. You won't get to but you might get his secretary team to call you back. Some companies have the magic word rule on "talk to the President" too.

There is no way that they have no stock (of stocks lol) and there is no reason for them to wait to ship them to be "fair." They are just shoveling crap.

 

If this fails, write a letter that details everything. Mail it with tracking ($3-$4) and fax it to the fax number. Make it attention to ANTHONY ACITELLI - PRESIDENT AND CEO of Taurus

Other names to drop are

Vincent Abrams Senior Marketing Manager

Carlos Vazquez-Pausa  Director of National Sales

Customer Care Call Center
Call Toll Free: (800) 948-8029
Monday thru Friday - 8:00 AM to 10:00 PM (EST)

Phone: (305) 474-0401
Fax: (305) 623-7506

Mailing Address:
16175 NW 49 Avenue
Miami Lakes, FL 33014

 

If you do Facebook (I don't) then write a review on their page. Almost at the top of the reviews I saw one for what sounded like the same issue. 

 

Make enough noise (politely but strongly) and someone high enough up will decide to fix it so you will stop costing them marketing dollars.

 

[jgradyc]

I guess I don't get it. But then I didn't get it when I offered to buy it if you listed it in the Classifieds as is nearly a year ago. Ha! <insert humor icon here>

Respectfully, you have wasted a year of your life waiting for a response. It's time to fix the gun and move on. Here's a stock that looks better than the factory wood stock, is adjustable, and will have you shooting again in a week or so. It's $59 plus shipping.  You might want to call first to double check the fit. I don't think the forend will fit, but the buttstock should, and that's all you need.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/543899/advanced-technology-shotforce-6-position-collapsible-buttstock-with-pistol-grip-and-forend-rossi-shotguns-and-rifles-polymer-black

https://www.atigunstocks.com/rifles/rossi/stocks/shotforce-rossi-stock

 

Edited December 3, 2016 by jgradyc

[Sidewinder]

On 12/2/2016 at 3:45 PM, Ronald_55 said:

From my experience if you have this long of an issue going on, then it needs to be "escalated".

Call back in, identify the issue and order number very calm and polite. Tell the operator that this has been going on forever and you would like to "escalate to their supervisor." In most call centers these are magic words that can't be denied. I should know, I have worked in several. If the supervisor tells you they can't help, the ask them the same thing. At some point, you might have to wait on a call back, but there is someone that can help you. If they say there is no one else to talk to, ask to talk to ANTHONY ACITELLI - PRESIDENT AND CEO. You won't get to but you might get his secretary team to call you back. Some companies have the magic word rule on "talk to the President" too.

There is no way that they have no stock (of stocks lol) and there is no reason for them to wait to ship them to be "fair." They are just shoveling crap.

 

If this fails, write a letter that details everything. Mail it with tracking ($3-$4) and fax it to the fax number. Make it attention to ANTHONY ACITELLI - PRESIDENT AND CEO of Taurus

Other names to drop are

Vincent Abrams Senior Marketing Manager

Carlos Vazquez-Pausa  Director of National Sales

Customer Care Call Center
Call Toll Free: (800) 948-8029
Monday thru Friday - 8:00 AM to 10:00 PM (EST)

Phone: (305) 474-0401
Fax: (305) 623-7506

Mailing Address:
16175 NW 49 Avenue
Miami Lakes, FL 33014

 

If you do Facebook (I don't) then write a review on their page. Almost at the top of the reviews I saw one for what sounded like the same issue. 

 

Make enough noise (politely but strongly) and someone high enough up will decide to fix it so you will stop costing them marketing dollars.

 

 

On 12/2/2016 at 3:45 PM, Ronald_55 said:

From my experience if you have this long of an issue going on, then it needs to be "escalated".

Call back in, identify the issue and order number very calm and polite. Tell the operator that this has been going on forever and you would like to "escalate to their supervisor." In most call centers these are magic words that can't be denied. I should know, I have worked in several. If the supervisor tells you they can't help, the ask them the same thing. At some point, you might have to wait on a call back, but there is someone that can help you. If they say there is no one else to talk to, ask to talk to ANTHONY ACITELLI - PRESIDENT AND CEO. You won't get to but you might get his secretary team to call you back. Some companies have the magic word rule on "talk to the President" too.

There is no way that they have no stock (of stocks lol) and there is no reason for them to wait to ship them to be "fair." They are just shoveling crap.

 

If this fails, write a letter that details everything. Mail it with tracking ($3-$4) and fax it to the fax number. Make it attention to ANTHONY ACITELLI - PRESIDENT AND CEO of Taurus

Other names to drop are

Vincent Abrams Senior Marketing Manager

Carlos Vazquez-Pausa  Director of National Sales

Customer Care Call Center
Call Toll Free: (800) 948-8029
Monday thru Friday - 8:00 AM to 10:00 PM (EST)

Phone: (305) 474-0401
Fax: (305) 623-7506

Mailing Address:
16175 NW 49 Avenue
Miami Lakes, FL 33014

 

If you do Facebook (I don't) then write a review on their page. Almost at the top of the reviews I saw one for what sounded like the same issue. 

 

Make enough noise (politely but strongly) and someone high enough up will decide to fix it so you will stop costing them marketing dollars.

 

Ronald_55, thanks for your information. I will try everything you have mentioned and see if I get my new stock. Maybe, as you say, it's a procedural thing and I've had the procedure wrong. I've made so many phone calls to them in the last year, that I can't remember everyone, but feel like I may have talked to Mr Acitelli in the past. If I did, I got the same "script" from him as I did from his representatives. I'll give this method a try and see if I can get some positive results from them. Thank you for the information, and your reply to my posted problem.