Blackwater Security Guards (2 from TN?!?)

[ls-vtec]

ETA: I also read somewhere (besides the story linked here) that BW states they were fired upon, and thus returned fire, and that there were clearly weapons in the hands of the confronting force. However, after the shooting took place, and investigators showed up on scene, no weapons were found. With the tone of that country, as well as the time that transpired between shots fired and investigators on scene, those weapons could have easily gone *poof*. That's why I made the reference to the movie Rules of Engagement earlier. If you've ever watched it, you know exactly what I mean.

^^^^ originally posted by verbal

that is a good movie, and i agree . who exactly was watching the crime scene or whatever ? anyone could have taken the weapons maybe some of the locals for protection or lawyers with a staged agenda . without firsthand evidence and proof no one knows and no one ever will . they will draw an estimated guess and that will be it .

Edited December 11, 2008 by ls-vtec

[Smith]

The difference is they would be anywhere blackwater sent them.

Not true. NATO has outlawed foreign PMCs being hired by outside countries. This happened after Sierra Leone. The US can hire PMCs because they are involved but Iraq could not hire PMCs for military engagements. Foreign PMCs can be hired as consultants for military engagments but not combat.

[Guest mw.]

ETA: I also read somewhere (besides the story linked here) that BW states they were fired upon, and thus returned fire, and that there were clearly weapons in the hands of the confronting force. However, after the shooting took place, and investigators showed up on scene, no weapons were found. With the tone of that country, as well as the time that transpired between shots fired and investigators on scene, those weapons could have easily gone *poof*. That's why I made the reference to the movie Rules of Engagement earlier. If you've ever watched it, you know exactly what I mean.

The guy that gave my HCP class mentioned that if you were ever in a shooting you should try to secure the gun that the other person had if possible. It could dissapear if he had friends or someone saw an easy chance to get a gun before police showed up.

[Daniel]

The locals will pick up weapons as well as move fighters to hospitals in certain circumstances. If the fighters are friendly to the local populace or members of said populace they will be transported.

[Guest jackdog]

You know, I haven't let a Marine kiss my ass lately. You're first in line.

Excuse me did you just insinuate that members of the United States Marine Corp kiss your ass? If you did that is a hell of an insult to a great bunch of fighting men, who fought and some died wearing the uniform.

Wait a second maybe you typed the wrong word, perhaps you meant kick your ass. In that case I would not be adverse to being in the front of the line, in fact I would be happy to help you out.

Tungsten it seems due to your private issues you have stepped out of line a bit. I doubt that there is anyone on this board that does not feel for you or wish you well and that includes me. Perhaps I was out of line with my post under your current circumstances, if so then let me apologize, not for what I said but for my timing.

Chill out guy don't make an ass out of yourself

[TGO David]

Excuse me did you just insinuate that members of the United States Marine Corp kiss your ass? If you did that is a hell of an insult to a great bunch of fighting men, who fought and some died wearing the uniform.

Nope, my comment was not aimed at the USMC. My comment was directed at you, a Marine. That being said, obviously I am not my normal lovable self right now and undoubtedly because a lot of the things that are weighing on me right now. So my tolerance for BS from a Marine or from my best friend ( one of whom happens to be -- ironically -- a Marine ) is hovering just above negative numbers right now.

I'm not going to apologize because I think that your questioning my combat experience was a pretty dick-headed move. But I will say that while I may have otherwise let it slide and just played ball with you, lately I'm just not in the mood.

Closest thing you're going to get as far as "sorry" goes from me. If that makes me an ass, so be it. I'm just the ass that's sticking to his guns.

[poak]

ass that's sticking to his guns.

Might I suggest a different IWB holster?

[Guest jackdog]

Im sitting on the sidelines on this one, as I have discussed my opinions and personal experience with PMCs in the past, but I am curious;

Jackdog- whats YOUR experience regarding armed combat in general, and Blackwater and/or DoD contracted PMCs specifically?

USMC retired Viet Nam 1966,67,68,69,and 70. Panama 1990. along with a few years special ops. Blackwaer and groups like them are not under any form of authority such as the UCMJ they are mercenaries. I think these guys are a morale buster, I've talked to quite few Iraq vets that did not have a very kind view of these guys. That being said I was not there so I really don't want to say anything derogatory against them. But everyone in a combat theater needs to be accountable to someone for their actions. Edited December 11, 2008 by jackdog

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Wait a second maybe you typed the wrong word, perhaps you meant kick your ass. In that case I would not be adverse to being in the front of the line, in fact I would be happy to help you out.

...

Chill out guy don't make an ass out of yourself

Um... pot... kettle?

I guess being a Marine makes you that much more of a hardass behind the keyboard, huh? I mean, being a smartass is one thing... threatening to kick someone one's ass over the internet... wow... yeah... grade 'A' hardass there.

I think you might want to take some of your own advice, cuz you're looking like an ass right now.

[TGO David]

Might I suggest a different IWB holster?

Usually I just spray my guns with PAM and it keeps them from sticking.

[TGO David]

But everyone in a combat theatre needs to be accountable to someone for their actions.

I agree with you 300% if that makes you feel any better.

[Guest jackdog]

Hey Tunsten never asks for an apology. If your life ever gets back to normal, and i hope it does we can continue this conversation. Let's put it on hold for another time.

[Guest jackdog]

I guess being a Marine makes you that much more of a hardass behind the keyboard, huh? I mean, being a smartass is one thing... threatening to kick someone one's ass over the internet... wow... yeah... grade 'A' hardass there.

Hey verbal this is between Tungsten and me why not butt out and let us handle it.

[Guest jackdog]

I agree with you 300% if that makes you feel any better.

Thanks it really does and I appreciate the response.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Hey verbal this is between Tungsten and me why not butt out and let us handle it.

A) You just made a post on a public forum. Take it to PM if you want to cuddle with someone.

He's family.

C) Go piss up a burning rope if you don't like it.

[TGO David]

Hey Tunsten never asks for an apology. If your life ever gets back to normal, and i hope it does we can continue this conversation. Let's put it on hold for another time.

We'll have a beer together at some point. Things usually look better after a few beers.

[Punisher84]

This is just me, but seriously guys? 9 pages of thread with moderators and long term members arguing, name calling, and doing things that would normally get people banned?

I'm not even going to relay my feelings on the Blackwater matter, it's to late in the game.

Really think about this though, alot of members here are under considerable amounts of stress right now and nobody likes being questioned or made to feel that their opinion doesn't count, but if you were a new member here and read this thread would you have any respect for half the people that have posted in here? Or want to continue as part of a group that discusses matters in this way?

Do as you will, but from a sidelines view maybe this one has run it's course and deserves a Masterlock?

[TGO David]

Yeah but we're just now getting to the point where we're all going to hold hands and sing campfire songs. A newbie wouldn't want to miss that would they? That'd be like watching Bambi, seeing his mom get shot and then not seeing her come back to life at the very end.

Right?

I mean... she came back... right?

[Guest Verbal Kint]

Not too mention, newbies would only have about 4 days to piss and moan before the TGO doors close anyway.

[Daniel]

rofl

[Guest gunslinger707]

The .gov says that they were firing without being fired upon. Blackwater has always claimed they were reacting to contact.

Lt.William Calley said he was fired on too see where it got him!!

[NuTcAsE]

If that makes me an ass, so be it. I'm just the ass that's sticking to his guns.

Dude, I hope you're not carrying Glocks......

[TripleDigitRide]

Yeah but we're just now getting to the point where we're all going to hold hands and sing campfire songs. A newbie wouldn't want to miss that would they? That'd be like watching Bambi, seeing his mom get shot and then not seeing her come back to life at the very end.

Right?

I mean... she came back... right?

[ame]

[/ame]

[Punisher84]

It's like a high school fight I guess. Beat each other to hell than everybody is still friends in the end.

I feel like the little kid standing in the den watching his parents fight and screaming "It's Christmas you guys!"

[TGO David]

It's like a high school fight I guess. Beat each other to hell than everybody is still friends in the end.

I feel like the little kid standing in the den watching his parents fight and screaming "It's Christmas you guys!"

Daddy says I make him drink.