Help me understand...

[Parrothead]

I've read countless times that cocking a da/sa revolver in a defensive situation would open the door to criminal and civil charges. I would like someone to tell me what I'm missing.

Yes, the chance of a negligent discharge goes up significantly but your standard 1911 has about the same trigger pull. I don't see it as "premeditated" since we don't consider flipping a manual safety off as a issue.

I'm certainly not planning on getting in a gun fight but this intrigues me since I carry a 637 from time to time. I normally train in double action but when I switch to single action, my range increases significantly. I would think if the situation allows a calculated shot in single action, it would be reckless not to go that route since you would deliver a more accurate shot.

Please explain. Thanks in advance

[Sidecarist]

Just my 0.02 opinion here.

There is a thought that you could have an un-intentional discharge leading to liability in court. I don't think this would be a criminal matter, but rather a civil one.

Civil suits are harder to win against someone that has been exonerated of criminal charges.

Personal opinion is that if you can prove that you could shoot more accurately and that this may have prevented a miss when the shooting us righteous in every other way then likely not a problem.

The issue with your statement above is that single action gives you more accuracy at extended range. At what range as the threat stopped being a threat to your life? This will vary based on the weapons used against you as well as distance. ..

Only you can answer these questions at the time of the conflict. But IMHO

it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6...

[Wingshooter]

I think it's just an opinion by many that a crafty prosecutor could try to make the case that you had time to cock your gun and take careful aim to shoot another person. I think it would depend on the situation though. I don't know if it's ever been tried that way in an actual court. I agree with you that I can shoot better single action. With the adrenalin pumping, a lighter trigger may or may not be a good thing.

[Parrothead]

The issue with your statement above is that single action gives you more accuracy at extended range. At what range as the threat stopped being a threat to your life? This will vary based on the weapons used against you as well as distance. ..

Only you can answer these questions at the time of the conflict. But IMHO

it's better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6...

Thanks for the feedback. One situation I think about is the unlikely active shooter--specifically at church. I normally carry a larger gun but occasionally in the summer, the j frame gets a ride. If I cannot flee the situation, it seems a long(ish) range shot in single action would be much preferred to a double action shot.

I'm just assuming I'm missing something since many top instructors advise against single action.

[quietguy]

 

 

Civil suits are harder to win against someone that has been exonerated of criminal charges.

Ask OJ if he feels the same way.  

 

The difference in the burden of proof is significant between a civil and criminal case, and I am not sure I would trust most of the statistics you hear bantered about.  

 

Civil cases are generally only pursued if the defendant has something to protect, and that the plaintiff's attorney feels they have a chance to win (and ensure themselves a payday).  

 

Not trying to be confrontational, but I would be much more concerned with criminal liability than civil.  

Edited February 21, 2016 by quietguy

[quietguy]

Double Post

Edited February 21, 2016 by quietguy

[wjh2657]

You shouldn't be looking for "X-Ring" accuracy in a defensive shooting. You are looking for an effective grouping <5". I shoot revolvers all of the time and I shoot double action at all times. My triggers are standard (Approx 8#), it just takes practice.

 

As LtCol Cooper told us at Gunsite: " If you have a small group, you're shooting too damn slow!"

Edited February 22, 2016 by wjh2657

[JAB]

I am not a lawyer, never played one on TV and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  With that caveat, geez, do people just sit around and try to come up with extra things to worry about in a defensive shooting situation?  How likely is it that anyone besides the shooter is even going to know that the hammer was thumbed back before taking the shot?  Really - this is a situation where things are serious enough that a person is firing in self defense (or defense of a third pary which might be a more likely scenario for opting for single action.)  I would be surprised if most people would even be able to give a very accurate description of the gun afterward much less say, "I saw him thumb back the hammer on his nickel plated .357 revolver so that he could take the shot in single action."  Heck, how many people know that much about guns, especially revolvers, to even know what 'single action' and 'double action' really mean?  I'd guess that many folks probably figure - since people on television and movies who use revolvers seem to thumb back the hammer because it 'looks cool' or whatever - that is what you are supposed to do when using a revolver.

Edited February 22, 2016 by JAB

[Cruel Hand Luke]

Keep in mind that not everyone ever involved in a shooting is going to be a steely eyed gunman ......far more people involved in shootings are minimally skilled. The issue is when a minimally skilled individual cocks their pistol , changing that 12-15 lb trigger to a 4-5 lb trigger that they are most likely not used to operating under stress and you set the stage for an easily predictable negligent discharge.

 

Then let us assume that the event is successfully negotiated without use of gunfire...now what does he/she do with their now cocked revolver? With shaky hands (from adrenalin dump) they are now going to hold the hammer as they pull the trigger to let it down on a live chamber? .... Or in the case of a DA/SA auto....do they know where the decocking lever even is? What if they are rolling with a CZ75 ? You still have to press trigger and lower the hammer to decock those..... Part of the move to DA only guns in police use was to not only make it less likely for shaky hands to apply too much pressure to a 4-5 lb trigger and make the gun fire accidentally, but to also eliminate the extra manipulation of decocking before holstering if the gun had been fired (and eliminate the need to REMEMBER to do the extra manipulation). 

 

Now if you are a 1/10th of 1%er and you are 100% competent and confident in your abilities even under stress because you have trained to a level of operating on auto pilot then none of that applies to you and you can probably do anything you want (cock the hammer, etc) and it will be OK...but there is a reason that we refer to SERIOUS GUNMEN as 1/10th of 1%ers because MOST people who simply own guns, or even most people who carry guns as part of  their job are the OTHER 99.90% that probably should not take a tool they may not thoroughly understand and have not mastered the use of and then make it EASIER to fire it accidentally when they are in the most stressful situation they have ever been in.....