300 blk vs 308 ar which one.

[ballz71]

It's that time to build or buy another ar. I've narrowed it down to these two cailbers. I need some help desiding. The 308 would be more of a investment I believe to get started into but it will give me more of long range capability. 300 will give me the versility of shoting subsonic if i chose to go suppress later on. I will also be reloading for which ever I chose. I would like some input from you guys. Also another thing is possible using them for hunting if anyone has expenience with 300 blk hunting plz chime in. Also if anyone has suggest one pre built rifle suggestion are welcome.

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[samson7x]

It's really going to depend on your main use of the rifle and how far you intend to shoot.   I have a 300blk SBR and have started a 308 build.  The 300blk is a really small, lightweight package and perfect for hunting on the move.  I recently used it on a hog hunt and it was very effective with my supers using a 110gr bullet.  There are also several subsonic expanding bullets available now if you want to be very quiet.  It's a very capable cartridge for hunting purposes.  Another huge appeal is subsonic suppressed shooting.  If you are tossing around the idea of getting a can at all, do it. 

 

I just started the 308, so obviously can't comment a great deal here.  However, one of my buddies was using one on the hog hunt and he made several comments about how heavy it was and he would never use one again for that style of hunting, etc. I'm sure it would be fine if you are deer hunting in a stand all day. 

 

Since you will be reloading, ammo cost won't be a factor so I won't even go into that.

 

Hope that helps at least a little. 

[10-Ring]

300 BLK can be a little tricky to load especially if you are making your own cases.  Just be aware of that if you are not a very experienced reloader.  Either round will work fine for deer.  Hopefully our resident 300 BLK expert will chime in soon.  I would lean towards the 300 just because it is light and compact which is what I prefer in a hunting rifle. 

[ballz71]

If I went with a 300 I would probably buy some once fired casing to get started.

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[Jct1911]

The 308ar/ar10 is by no means lightweight. Once fired 7.62x51 brass is usually military LC machine gun fired and requires special care to be used, I form .260remington from it and it's a pain. 300blk was the second rifle cartridge I loaded, all from formed LC brass(my once fired cases), it's a pain to make too but much easier. .308 uses much more powder, mags are more expensive and the platform isn't standardized between manufacturers, it is a sizable investment getting into the autoloading 308AR(mine is 260rem as above). BUT, the .308 is a much more capable cartridge, where 300blk isn't much more powerful then .223, and less than 7.62x39 or 30/30. For woods carry, I prefer the AR15 in 300blk(which I actually hunt with a Handi rifle in 300blk because it's much lighter. For range, bench, prone, the AR308.

[DaveTN]

The decision for me would be pretty easy based on whether or not you are going to suppress. If I were going to suppress it would be a 300 BLK. If I wasn’t going to suppress, the 300 BLK has nothing to offer.
I have no desire to put a suppressor on a large centerfire rifle; so my AR’s are in .308 and .223.

[nightrunner]

I believe it was dolomite that posted in one thread that the blackout was 80% of the .308win. Something around -275 yd effective range vs the Winchester.

I also recall him mentioning working up some 168-175gr long range supersonic loads to see what could be done.

[DaveTN]

I believe it was dolomite that posted in one thread that the blackout was 80% of the .308win. Something around -275 yd effective range vs the Winchester.

I also recall him mentioning working up some 168-175gr long range supersonic loads to see what could be done.

The effective range of a 7.62 NATO is 1000 yards. (Army says 800, Marines say 1000). But the fact is plenty of people shoot them 1000 yards.

You can put any percentage number on that you like. But as soon as we start talking long range; the 300 BLK is dead. It’s a designer round with a special application. The OP said he wanted long range capability. I don’t think most would consider 275 long range.

[nightrunner]

The effective range of a 7.62 NATO is 1000 yards. (Army says 800, Marines say 1000). But the fact is plenty of people shoot them 1000 yards.

You can put any percentage number on that you like. But as soon as we start talking long range; the 300 BLK is dead. It’s a designer round with a special application. The OP said he wanted long range capability. I don’t think most would consider 275 long range.

I meant for a given range with .308win, the blackout will have the same amount of drop 275 yards closer. So max effective range is 1000 for .308, then it's 725 for blackout.


I read an article of someone(TTAG?) using a 16" blackout carbine and consistently making hits on steel at 1000 yards with 123gr FMJ. It can be done.

Blackout isn't worthless or immediately ineffective after 200yards. It's a great little round and not just a one trick pony. It's actually quite versatile.

[samson7x]

The decision for me would be pretty easy based on whether or not you are going to suppress. If I were going to suppress it would be a 300 BLK. If I wasn’t going to suppress, the 300 BLK has nothing to offer.
I have no desire to put a suppressor on a large centerfire rifle; so my AR’s are in .308 and .223.

 

"nothing to offer"?  Really?

 

Even if you weren't going to suppress it, complete powder burn in <10" barrel makes it a dream to SBR.  1360 ft/lbs of energy with a 125gr bullet is plenty for light skinned game or hogs.  The OP never mentions what game he may be hunting so that could become a factor.

 

 

The effective range of a 7.62 NATO is 1000 yards. (Army says 800, Marines say 1000). But the fact is plenty of people shoot them 1000 yards.

You can put any percentage number on that you like. But as soon as we start talking long range; the 300 BLK is dead. It’s a designer round with a special application. The OP said he wanted long range capability. I don’t think most would consider 275 long range.

 

 

OP never mentions long range capability as a requirement, he merely states "The 308 would be more of a investment I believe to get started into but it will give me more of long range capability."

 

If "long range" is a requirement, then that's a different discussion altogether. 

[ballz71]

If used for hunting it would be mainly hogs, deer and steel targets lol. Long range capability is not a requirement and nether is going suppressed. I was just throwing out some pro to the two calibers. I'm really wanting some pros and cons to the calibers and set ups . Which you all have made some interesting points so far.

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[MacGyver]

They're really two different use cases.  The AR10 could be a good hunting rifle, and has more legs than the 300, but it's a lot heavier rifle.  I wouldn't want to lug mine around the woods all day.

 

For pigs and deer, the 300 is more than adequate at the ranges you're most likely to encounter in Tennessee.  And, if you're going with 110gr or 120gr supersonic stuff, you can stretch it out further if you spend some time getting to know the rifle.  That said, I don't know that I've ever shot a pig that's been more than 100 meters away.  The terrain they prefer here in the South just isn't conducive to longer shots in most cases.  

[ballz71]

I started a poll just to get some input from everyone.

[Omega]

Full disclosure, I don't own an AR10; but I have fired them and while not bad, I stuck with my Rem 700 .308 bolt action since I am under the impression that they are more accurate.  Add to that, that the 300Blk has many interchangeable parts with other caliber ARs and it makes my choice easier; the 300 Blackout.

 

I have two, a 16" and a 10.5" and I would much rather carry either one of those than an AR10 while hunting.  But I keep my shots under 200 yards, most under 100 yards.

[Jonnin]

I find the 308 to have a bit much recoil and a low round count if trying to use it like a semi-auto.   At range you will shoot it slowly,  aiming carefully, most likely.   I find that a more traditional bolt or lever is easier to get accuracy from with less investment and the semi-auto capability just does not seem to gain me much.  And yea, I have both platforms in 308 but I don't have super long ranges to shoot at.   So I vote 300 AR or 308 in a bolt.   

[krunchnik]

I voted the 300AAC in an AR-I have both a Remington 700 in .308 and a CMMG in 300AAC-they are both some pretty accurate shooters.The .308 will group 3/4 inch at 150 yards-and the .300 I have shot at same yardage but only pulled about a 2 inch group with it.My bad shooting no doubt on the .300.My Remington is a lot heavier than the CMMG .The .300 was ringing the steel pretty effectively at that range with 115 UMC.In Northern Michigan I think the .300 would be a decent deer caliber considering a lot of the hunting there is under the 100 yard mark easily.Here in TN I am clueless seeing as I have never done any hunting in the area.The only reason I bring up Michigan is due to the fact thats where I have hunted the most.

[leroy]

Here's a geezer view... We used to shoot a lot of 308 thru bolt guns... A 308 is, in fact, a long range round... I think it's a waste of time to shoot a 308 less than about 250 yards... They are deadly accurate out to 1000 yds...witness the use by the military in the olden days... I like the 300 blackout, but comparin it to a 308 is like comparin a pistol cartridge to a rifle cartridge... They simply aint in the same league...

 

leroy

[Omega]

Here's a geezer view... We used to shoot a lot of 308 thru bolt guns... A 308 is, in fact, a long range round... I think it's a waste of time to shoot a 308 less than about 250 yards... They are deadly accurate out to 1000 yds...witness the use by the military in the olden days... I like the 300 blackout, but comparin it to a 308 is like comparin a pistol cartridge to a rifle cartridge... They simply aint in the same league...

 

leroy

I don't think anyone is trying to state that a 300Blk is better than .308, just stating that .300Blk is a better choice in an AR.  A .308 is a very good long range round, and an AR in .308 can be accurate; but there is a reason most sniper rifles are bolt action.  As for it's range, yes it is capable of reaching out to a decent range, but it is also very capable at 100 yards or under as well.  And while, for me, the .270 is a better hunting round; I have used the .308 the last few years quite effectively at ranges of 100 yards and less.

 

So for the OP's stated use, I think a 300 Blackout would be a good choice specially loaded with Barnes 115 grain blacktips in supers for hunting. 

 If/when he decides to get a can, then the Sierra Match King 220s are great performers for target,

 

 but for hunting I am not convinced it's a good choice unless you use one of those specialty rounds such as the Lehigh's and concentrate on shot placement.

 

[MacGyver]

I have yet to meet a pig that's gotten along well with those 110gr Barnes TAC-TX bullets.

[jwhjwh54]

I had a sig 716 that I thought I'd hunt with and shoot long range . Neither happened because my bolt guns were better for long range and my other Ar's were so much lighter and could kill deer and pigs just as well

I sold the sig with barely any rounds shot through it and haven't looked back.

If you aren't going to shoot insuppressed maybe go down the rabbit hole of 6.8 even though all my Ar's I shoot are super sonic with a suppressor

I have a 8.5 300 blk out that I've killed some big hogs and deer at range. I love how small the 300 is and the Barnes 110 black tip is the bullet for the gun.

My 11.5 6.8 is great too and has a bit more punch farther out . It's the perfect round for where I hunt In Alabama

I vote a big no on the 308 and yes on 300 blk. Out or 6.8

[leroy]

I don't think anyone is trying to state that a 300Blk is better than .308, just stating that .300Blk is a better choice in an AR.  A .308 is a very good long range round, and an AR in .308 can be accurate; but there is a reason most sniper rifles are bolt action.  As for it's range, yes it is capable of reaching out to a decent range, but it is also very capable at 100 yards or under as well.  And while, for me, the .270 is a better hunting round; I have used the .308 the last few years quite effectively at ranges of 100 yards and less.

 

So for the OP's stated use, I think a 300 Blackout would be a good choice specially loaded with Barnes 115 grain blacktips in supers for hunting. 

 If/when he decides to get a can, then the Sierra Match King 220s are great performers for target,

 

 but for hunting I am not convinced it's a good choice unless you use one of those specialty rounds such as the Lehigh's and concentrate on shot placement.

 

Who said they were... The intent of the post was to point out that the 300 blackout  and the 308 are different... I aint sure what your intent is; could it be to show us all how smart ya are...?

 

leroy

[Omega]

Who said they were... The intent of the post was to point out that the 300 blackout  and the 308 are different... I aint sure what your intent is; could it be to show us all how smart ya are...?

 

leroy

Well,  my intent was not to upset you.  I think we know they are different, and both are good within their capabilities.  But this, if I read the OP correctly, is about which of the two calibers is best in an AR.  Not which caliber is best overall, or for a specific use.  

[leroy]

Well,  my intent was not to upset you.  I think we know they are different, and both are good within their capabilities.  But this, if I read the OP correctly, is about which of the two calibers is best in an AR.  Not which caliber is best overall, or for a specific use.  

Glad ta hear it... I hate condescension...real or non intended... 

 

leroy

[bowtieguy]

My .02. I'd go .308. But... I'd go with one of the newer smaller format offerings from mega, daniel defense, dpms g2, etc. The new Maten is something like 7 1/2 lbs. Older large format ar10's are just too big for a woods gun. If you are going to suppress the gun id have a 300 as a range toy or home defense gun. But if you aren't going to suppress and wish to hunt hogs and whitetail, while building on an ar15 reciever set, take a look at 6.8. I built my 6.8 before the newer .308's were available and it has served me very well both here and in south Texas hunting hogs and deer alike. I just don't see any advantage of a 300 blackout for hunting unless you are shooting subsonic suppressed and then you are limited in range. Not to mention .308 is available anywhere and everywhere. Edited February 14, 2016 by bowtieguy

[WarPig]

Im sure it has already been said (I wasnt about to read all 3 pages) but I have one of each. I have a CMMG Mk3 in 308 and a 300 blk SBR. BLUF, you should get both, they are two totally different platforms.

The 300s pros
Can hunt with (what I prefer for hog and deer)
Can use for CQB/home defense
Great with suppressor
Perfect to SBR
Mags same as your 556

300 Con's
Significant bullet drop compared to 308 on average for long distance
Expensive ammo

308 pros
Good with suppressor as well (if hunting, takes the bite off of it)
Longer distance
Ammo cheaper

Cons
Heavy (carry it in the field for 3 days vs a 300 sbr and you will cuss leaving the other at home...ammo is heavier too)
Hardware for AR10 mostly not compatible with AR15
Not good for home defense
Did I mention its heavy??

I bring up the HD because I use my 300 for that as well. I only use the 308 for hunting. But if you get a 308 suppressor and are thinking about eventually getting both I both an AAC SR7 and its compatible with my 308, 300, and 556 (and soon my 6.8). Hope that helps (but I probably just regurgitated what the rest of these smart fellas already told ya)




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