Arcane NJ law prevents retired cops from carrying concealed weapon

[The Legion]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/08/arcane-nj-law-prevents-retired-cops-from-carrying-concealed-weapon.html?intcmp=hpbt3

 

 

Published February 08, 2016

FoxNews.com

New Jersey’s arcane gun law is preventing some retired cops from getting a permit to carry a concealed weapon, according to a published report.

That’s because the law makes no provisions for retired public university police officers to get one, the Newark Star-Ledger reports.

“There seems to be discrepancy in whether [state] university police are viewed as working for a state agency,” attorney Thomas Roughneen told the paper.

He represents John Kotchkowski, 55, and Robert Dunsmuir, 48, two retired University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey police sergeants who were denied right-to-carry permits.

A judge last month refused to grant Kotchkowski a permit on appeal. Dunsmuir’s appeal will be heard next month.

“It’s made me feel like my whole career was a sham, like they’re saying I wasn’t a real cop,” Kotchkowski told the paper Thursday.

He lost his appeal even though other retired campus cops have won theirs, the paper reported.

Kotchkowski and Dunsmuir both contend they worked for a state agency and thus should be granted a conceal carry permit. But the wording of the law doesn’t make that so clear, according to the New Jersey State Police, which oversees the permit process.

“How are UMDNJ police not a state law enforcement agency?" Roughneen asked, according to the Star-Ledger. “By that logic, that makes the entire Rutgers police force -- which is one of the largest in the state -- ineligible. And that flies in the face of the intent of the law, which is to increase public safety.”

The law was enacted in 1997 after the murder of a police chief who was killed when he tried to thwart the Newark carjacking of an elderly couple, the paper reported.

One of the officers involved in the pursuit of the killers in that case was Kotchkowski.

He and Dunsmuir worked on a stolen car task force with cops from Newark and the city of Elizabeth while on the job.

“Carjackings. Armed robberies, Domestics,” Kotchkowski told the paper. “We did everything city cops did.”

[ken56]

No sympathy from me on this. Welcome to being just a citizen. Until we quit creating different classes of the priveliged we will never have equality under the law. Retired police officers should not be considered "special". Nor should politicians or prosecutors or judges or anyone who works for the gov'mnt. If we are all citizens then we should not have priveleged classes of citizen. The right to bear arms is meant for all.

[Mike.357]

when everyday residents can't get permits there I am not sure why retired LEO should get special privileges.

 

The wrong is not the retired LEO angle, the wrong is the NJ laws to begin with.

[Defender]

No sympathy from me on this. Welcome to being just a citizen. Until we quit creating different classes of the priveliged we will never have equality under the law. Retired police officers should not be considered "special". Nor should politicians or prosecutors or judges or anyone who works for the gov'mnt. If we are all citizens then we should not have priveleged classes of citizen. The right to bear arms is meant for all.

Im not sure if the article was talking about a State issued HCP, or a LEOSA carry credential.  I agree, I guess, in that I think we all should be able to carry constitutionally, and I don't like  some folks being "more equal' than others, but The Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act (LEOSA) is designed to help a retired officer defend himself in situations like if after a career of putting away bad guys, he is subsequently targeted by a bad guy he put away.  The assumption is that these retired law enforcement officers may be more susceptible to retribution that the general populace.  I am a HCP holder, but due to the LEOSA credential allowing  carry in certain places that the HCP does not, I decided to get both credentials.  In my case, I dont consider myself in any more danger than  anyone else, as my law enforcement service wasnt around here, and I think it would be difficult to track me down after all these years, but,  since I was eligible and the threat DOES exist,  I figured I would go ahead and get it.  Heck, these days you never know if we will wake up one day and find that the HCPs have all been suspended in a martial law declaration!

Edited February 8, 2016 by barewoolf

[MacGyver]

If I can't be trusted with one - they shouldn't be either.

[DaveTN]

Whether or not you were a sworn Police Officer with Police powers is a yes or no answer. Working for the state is a non-issue.

[K191145]

when everyday residents can't get permits there I am not sure why retired LEO should get special privileges.

 

The wrong is not the retired LEO angle,[b] the wrong is the NJ laws to begin with.[/b]

 

If Tubby stays in the race till Super Tuesday I bet that will be brought up when they get to states where 2nd. Amendment issues are important. 

[btq96r]

I don't know if campus LEO's have the same post employment threat that other cops have, but regardless, I don't like the idea of creating a special class for the practice of a Constitutional right.  No government employee or retiree should have any special exemption that the citizens don't have unless it is job related, and retirement doesn't necessarily count in my book.

 

We know the proper answer for this, but the issue being in New Jersey, we also know how it will play out.

[K191145]

I don't know if campus LEO's have the same post employment threat that other cops have, but regardless, I don't like the idea of creating a special class for the practice of a Constitutional right.  No government employee or retiree should have any special exemption that the citizens don't have unless it is job related, and retirement doesn't necessarily count in my book.

 

We know the proper answer for this, but the issue being in New Jersey, we also know how it will play out.

 

Of course my opinion is that every citizen no matter who they are or used to be, if not a convicted felon or declared by a court and doctors(plural) to be mentally unstable has a right to carry a firearm. No special classes of people. Every state infringes on that right to a degree but NJ just craps all over it like a few other states. I really wish someone would confront Christie about that, he claims that's the state legislature which is bull feces, it's obvious he's okay with NJ gun laws or he would have fought the state legislature over it in the past. He may have conveniently vetoed a bill or two AFTER he decided to run for POTUS to fool people but most of us know his true colors, a North Eastern liberalish politician.

 

Edit: It would be preferable if Christie just went home after tomorrow and we didn't have to hear his name anymore. New Jersey citizens are paying the consequences of who they elect.

Edited February 9, 2016 by K191145

[DaveTN]

I don't know if campus LEO's have the same post employment threat that other cops have, but regardless, I don't like the idea of creating a special class for the practice of a Constitutional right.  No government employee or retiree should have any special exemption that the citizens don't have unless it is job related, and retirement doesn't necessarily count in my book.
 
We know the proper answer for this, but the issue being in New Jersey, we also know how it will play out.

If we had constitutional rights the LEOSA would not exist. We (HCP holders) are a “special group” that buys our privileges from the state. Retired cops are part of a “special group” that gets their privileges from a federal act. It’s just one special group arguing that another special group is getting more “special” treatment than they are; no rights are involved.

I was chastised (and maybe rightfully so) when I suggested that since Illinois won’t recognize our permits; we don’t recognize theirs. The same thing was brought up with Virginia recently (but that worked out). The popular consensus is don’t take it out on the individual because they happen to be from that state. Same thing here, a retired cop doesn’t get any more privilege in this state than I do; they just get it in more states than I do. Good for them.

[tnhawk]

 

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/08/arcane-nj-law-prevents-retired-cops-from-carrying-concealed-weapon.html?intcmp=hpbt3

 

 

Published February 08, 2016

FoxNews.com

New Jersey’s arcane gun law is preventing some retired cops from getting a permit to carry a concealed weapon, according to a published report.......i.

He and Dunsmuir worked on a stolen car task force with cops from Newark and the city of Elizabeth while on the job...... “We did everything city cops did.”

 

The solution is to move from n.j. to another state.

[Raoul]

The solution is to move from n.j. to another state.

 

Don't encourage them.