Informing a LEO that your carrying, at a traffic stop

[Volzfan]

There is no reason to escalate a simple traffic stop to something much bigger. If you don't tell him/her up front and they find out when they run your license then they will wonder what else you may be trying to hide.

[Guest Jester]

I'm just gonna relate my experience. LEOs and others please post comment and opinions.

Early morning on my way to work. I travel through the West Gate/Belle Meade area.

I admittedly was traveling faster than the posted speed limit, but with other traffic. (Yes, I'm well aware that doesn't make it OK).

But I digress, in the eyes of the Metro/Davidson County police officer on the motorcycle, it was my lucky day. I pulled over to the shoulder after he signaled me as the soon-to-be recipient to pay some "fast tax".

At this point, let me set the visual:

2003 Isuzu Rodeo, clean and no dents or bumperstickers.

Me: 40 yr old, clean shaven, mustache, collared dress shirt and slacks, eye glasses.

Radio off, nothing in the front passenger seat, dash or consoles.

By the time the officer reached my window, I had DL, Vehicle Reg and Insurance card in my left hand and my wallet in my right hand, wrists resting atop the steering wheel, window down.

Immediately upon his approach, he asked "when did I plan to tell him I had a gun in the car?"

He then goes on a rant about how he wouldn't think twice about dragging me out onto the pavement, cuffing me or just putting a .45 cal through my brain.

Once he calmed down, i asked what that was all about.

He said he had spotted my HCP in the window of my wallet.

(I carry my DL, HCP, Insurance card and Vehicle Reg in the same section of my wallet, DL facing out. Once these other documents were removed, the old HCP was standing in the wallet window front and center).

Never moving my hands and speaking very calmly, I inquired that I didn't think that the HCP or an yet unseen hand gun was relevant to a traffic stop, but that if he must know, the HCP was current and the handgun was unloaded, holstered and in my laptop case in the back seat and that I would cooperate without any resistance. (yeah, I know, I might as well have had a paper weight as to have been carrying an unloaded gun out of hands reach - and no, not for this instance).

At any rate, I got the ticket (no argument there, I was guilty of the violation and knew the rep of the territory).

But I don't think anybody deserves the hassle.

Opinions?

LEOS, where was the break down here?

[dralarms]

I'm just gonna relate my experience. LEOs and others please post comment and opinions.

Early morning on my way to work. I travel through the West Gate/Belle Meade area.

I admittedly was traveling faster than the posted speed limit, but with other traffic. (Yes, I'm well aware that doesn't make it OK).

But I digress, in the eyes of the Metro/Davidson County police officer on the motorcycle, it was my lucky day. I pulled over to the shoulder after he signaled me as the soon-to-be recipient to pay some "fast tax".

At this point, let me set the visual:

2003 Isuzu Rodeo, clean and no dents or bumperstickers.

Me: 40 yr old, clean shaven, mustache, collared dress shirt and slacks, eye glasses.

Radio off, nothing in the front passenger seat, dash or consoles.

By the time the officer reached my window, I had DL, Vehicle Reg and Insurance card in my left hand and my wallet in my right hand, wrists resting atop the steering wheel, window down.

Immediately upon his approach, he asked "when did I plan to tell him I had a gun in the car?"

He then goes on a rant about how he wouldn't think twice about dragging me out onto the pavement, cuffing me or just putting a .45 cal through my brain.

Once he calmed down, i asked what that was all about.

He said he had spotted my HCP in the window of my wallet.

(I carry my DL, HCP, Insurance card and Vehicle Reg in the same section of my wallet, DL facing out. Once these other documents were removed, the old HCP was standing in the wallet window front and center).

Never moving my hands and speaking very calmly, I inquired that I didn't think that the HCP or an yet unseen hand gun was relevant to a traffic stop, but that if he must know, the HCP was current and the handgun was unloaded, holstered and in my laptop case in the back seat and that I would cooperate without any resistance. (yeah, I know, I might as well have had a paper weight as to have been carrying an unloaded gun out of hands reach - and no, not for this instance).

At any rate, I got the ticket (no argument there, I was guilty of the violation and knew the rep of the territory).

But I don't think anybody deserves the hassle.

Opinions?

LEOS, where was the break down here?

To put it plainly, he was an ass.

[Fallguy]

Sounds like the very reason why some people have a recording device in their car and turn it on during any traffic stop.

[Guest Astra900]

Yet ANOTHER reason the few (very few) good cops have a hard way to go.

It's standard procedure in my town for the Barney patrol to tear apart the interior of your car looking for drugs, and never say sorry, thank you, kiss my a22 NOTHING. I feel so sorry for any cop who really DOES "just do his job"

[Fallguy]

Let's be careful and not start a general "cop bashing".

I would also add to my previous post, this why I have moved my HCP in wallet to the back.

The condition that you were currently carrying the gun didn't even require a HCP. Also having a HCP does not always mean your armed.

Who really knows what his reasoning was.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

I'm just gonna relate my experience. LEOs and others please post comment and opinions.

Early morning on my way to work. I travel through the West Gate/Belle Meade area.

I admittedly was traveling faster than the posted speed limit, but with other traffic. (Yes, I'm well aware that doesn't make it OK).

But I digress, in the eyes of the Metro/Davidson County police officer on the motorcycle, it was my lucky day. I pulled over to the shoulder after he signaled me as the soon-to-be recipient to pay some "fast tax".

At this point, let me set the visual:

2003 Isuzu Rodeo, clean and no dents or bumperstickers.

Me: 40 yr old, clean shaven, mustache, collared dress shirt and slacks, eye glasses.

Radio off, nothing in the front passenger seat, dash or consoles.

By the time the officer reached my window, I had DL, Vehicle Reg and Insurance card in my left hand and my wallet in my right hand, wrists resting atop the steering wheel, window down.

Immediately upon his approach, he asked "when did I plan to tell him I had a gun in the car?"

He then goes on a rant about how he wouldn't think twice about dragging me out onto the pavement, cuffing me or just putting a .45 cal through my brain.

Once he calmed down, i asked what that was all about.

He said he had spotted my HCP in the window of my wallet.

(I carry my DL, HCP, Insurance card and Vehicle Reg in the same section of my wallet, DL facing out. Once these other documents were removed, the old HCP was standing in the wallet window front and center).

Never moving my hands and speaking very calmly, I inquired that I didn't think that the HCP or an yet unseen hand gun was relevant to a traffic stop, but that if he must know, the HCP was current and the handgun was unloaded, holstered and in my laptop case in the back seat and that I would cooperate without any resistance. (yeah, I know, I might as well have had a paper weight as to have been carrying an unloaded gun out of hands reach - and no, not for this instance).

At any rate, I got the ticket (no argument there, I was guilty of the violation and knew the rep of the territory).

But I don't think anybody deserves the hassle.

Opinions?

LEOS, where was the break down here?

Break down? He was an ahole...

I can say, given the above fact pattern, that NONE of the officers that I supervise (15) would do that (and we deal with HCP holders all the time).

I really don't care one way or the other if they tell me...a smart cop always assumes the person has a gun.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[Guest Ggun]

I'm just gonna relate my experience. LEOs and others please post comment and opinions.

Early morning on my way to work. I travel through the West Gate/Belle Meade area.

I admittedly was traveling faster than the posted speed limit, but with other traffic. (Yes, I'm well aware that doesn't make it OK).

But I digress, in the eyes of the Metro/Davidson County police officer on the motorcycle, it was my lucky day. I pulled over to the shoulder after he signaled me as the soon-to-be recipient to pay some "fast tax".

At this point, let me set the visual:

2003 Isuzu Rodeo, clean and no dents or bumperstickers.

Me: 40 yr old, clean shaven, mustache, collared dress shirt and slacks, eye glasses.

Radio off, nothing in the front passenger seat, dash or consoles.

By the time the officer reached my window, I had DL, Vehicle Reg and Insurance card in my left hand and my wallet in my right hand, wrists resting atop the steering wheel, window down.

Immediately upon his approach, he asked "when did I plan to tell him I had a gun in the car?"

He then goes on a rant about how he wouldn't think twice about dragging me out onto the pavement, cuffing me or just putting a .45 cal through my brain.

Once he calmed down, i asked what that was all about.

He said he had spotted my HCP in the window of my wallet.

(I carry my DL, HCP, Insurance card and Vehicle Reg in the same section of my wallet, DL facing out. Once these other documents were removed, the old HCP was standing in the wallet window front and center).

Never moving my hands and speaking very calmly, I inquired that I didn't think that the HCP or an yet unseen hand gun was relevant to a traffic stop, but that if he must know, the HCP was current and the handgun was unloaded, holstered and in my laptop case in the back seat and that I would cooperate without any resistance. (yeah, I know, I might as well have had a paper weight as to have been carrying an unloaded gun out of hands reach - and no, not for this instance).

At any rate, I got the ticket (no argument there, I was guilty of the violation and knew the rep of the territory).

But I don't think anybody deserves the hassle.

Opinions?

LEOS, where was the break down here?

Most LEO's think they have a right to know if you are carrying a handgun in your car. So, by not showing the HCP up front you increased his perceived risk of death.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Yet ANOTHER reason the few (very few) good cops...

Seriously dude, give me a break.

Rational people can certainly debate the % of good vs bad cops, but to say that there are "very few" good cops is kinda silly.

I work with excellent people that handle high stress incidents exceptionally well (and regular incidents, too).

Apparently, most cities are vastly different than yours...

Edited January 5, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[BrasilNuts]

Maybe Astra just attracts all the bad ones.

[Guest Astra900]

Seriously dude, give me a break.

Rational people can certainly debate the % of good vs bad cops, but to say that there are "very few" good cops is kinda silly.

I work with excellent people that handle high stress incidents exceptionally well.

Apparently, most cities are vastly different than yours...

Well then I wish there was some way i could convince you to work in western williamson county and show these people how a real man does the job.

I believe what I said was dead on (but I'm wrong on many occasion). Does it not make sense; The fact that every cop in my area that I see and hear about is excessively rude, and thrives on throwing his weight around - Gives me a very bad opinion of the local cops in general. Likewise, the good guys (such as yourself) have a very foul reputation to contend with.

The thing that jumps this ship to suck factor 10 is that there is nothing I or anyone here can do. If you voice an opinion in a public manner, you're pouring blood in a shark tank.

I apologize if I have insulted you, or any other cops here, that do it the right way. I won't change my opinion, that I have seen first hand as fact.

One thing I am considering, and I must be careful how I word this: You cannot on people forever and get away with it. I am very afraid that one of our police in this little town will soon meet his maker, all because he chose not to conduct himself like a gentleman. Now, how sad and senseless will it be if that happens? But what can be done, unless one wants to be a martyr for that cause.

Once again, I'm sorry that you have a rough path to tread because of someone else's sorry conduct, it's certainly NOT fair to you.

[Guest Astra900]

Maybe Astra just attracts all the bad ones.

Actually, I stay home. I work from home. I rarely leave. My customers, the scanner, the local gossip, and some "unnamed insiders" tell me the bulk of it. I can walk to the main hwy and observe for myself (and have!).

But maybe you are right and I'm just a magnet:D

[creeky]

I've only had one bad experience (and that was before I had a HCP) with an LEO. All the others (except for one constable) have been very professional and I've usually ended up cutting up with them regardless if I got a ticket or not.

Had a waiter that was a real jerk once too... but I still go to restaurants. It's just a "Life Tax". We're all going to have to deal with jerks in life, some might where a badge, others may not. Just part of life.

[Fallguy]

"Life tax"...that's pretty good.

[oh58driver]

My brother-in-law WAS a Miami-Dade county cop, until he caught a shotgun blast to the chest during a traffic stop. Remember if a cop wants to stay alive we are all perps until proven otherwise. I feel it's best to tell him up front and risk him overreacting, as opposed to him catching a glance at the weapon and KNOWING he is going to overreact. First and foremost remember you have to pass the attitude test. Be polite.

[Mike.357]

or just putting a .45 cal through my brain.

at this point I am asking him to call a supervisor to assist. And I am following up on it. No one is going to threaten me with my life and walk away with no re-action.

Do these cops have voice recorders?

[Guest Astra900]

at this point I am asking him to call a supervisor to assist.

I'd like someone (who knows) to elaborate on this. I tried it several years ago in Dickson back when i first got my permit. A cop pulled me over, took my gun and threatened to arrest me for having it. Yep, he had my permit in his hand!!!! I asked him to call his supervisor, he laughed and said why, you want him to arrest you? Then i asked him if I could get my notebook from my dash. He asked why, I told him I wanted to write down his name, badge number and car number. He said no, and within 2 minutes I was on my way, with my gun back in it's holster. He didn't even write the ticket that I deserved for 40 in a 30! Hell, I would have taken the ticket and said have a nice day, if that would have been the whole deal. I got no problem paying for what I do.

What I'd like to know, does a cop really have to call his supervisor, if I ask him to?

[GhstFace38]

As a Police Officer I appreciate it when a driver hands me their HCP along with their driver's license. I always ask where it's at and advise them that if they don't grab for theirs I won't grab mine.

[GhstFace38]

and about the Officer telling you about putting a .45 through your brain..... I'd call his supervisor ASAP. He sounds dangerous.

[Guest Todd@CIS]

I'd like someone (who knows) to elaborate on this. I tried it several years ago in Dickson back when i first got my permit. A cop pulled me over, took my gun and threatened to arrest me for having it. Yep, he had my permit in his hand!!!! I asked him to call his supervisor, he laughed and said why, you want him to arrest you? Then i asked him if I could get my notebook from my dash. He asked why, I told him I wanted to write down his name, badge number and car number. He said no, and within 2 minutes I was on my way, with my gun back in it's holster. He didn't even write the ticket that I deserved for 40 in a 30! Hell, I would have taken the ticket and said have a nice day, if that would have been the whole deal. I got no problem paying for what I do.

What I'd like to know, does a cop really have to call his supervisor, if I ask him to?

At my Dept, if someone requests, a supervisor will respond to the scene (provided they're not on something more pressing).

Different Depts have different policies, though.

If someone is not comfortable with that, they can always call one later.

BTW, our Patrol and Traffic units have audio / video documentation. And, speaking as a supervisor who handles citizen complaints, I'll let someone tell me their story BEFORE I let them know about this.

95% of the time, after I check the video, the complainer is LYING THEIR ASS OFF.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[Guest Todd@CIS]

I'm just gonna relate my experience. LEOs and others please post comment and opinions.

Early morning on my way to work. I travel through the West Gate/Belle Meade area.

I admittedly was traveling faster than the posted speed limit, but with other traffic. (Yes, I'm well aware that doesn't make it OK).

But I digress, in the eyes of the Metro/Davidson County police officer on the motorcycle, it was my lucky day. I pulled over to the shoulder after he signaled me as the soon-to-be recipient to pay some "fast tax".

At this point, let me set the visual:

2003 Isuzu Rodeo, clean and no dents or bumperstickers.

Me: 40 yr old, clean shaven, mustache, collared dress shirt and slacks, eye glasses.

Radio off, nothing in the front passenger seat, dash or consoles.

By the time the officer reached my window, I had DL, Vehicle Reg and Insurance card in my left hand and my wallet in my right hand, wrists resting atop the steering wheel, window down.

Immediately upon his approach, he asked "when did I plan to tell him I had a gun in the car?"

He then goes on a rant about how he wouldn't think twice about dragging me out onto the pavement, cuffing me or just putting a .45 cal through my brain.

Once he calmed down, i asked what that was all about.

He said he had spotted my HCP in the window of my wallet.

(I carry my DL, HCP, Insurance card and Vehicle Reg in the same section of my wallet, DL facing out. Once these other documents were removed, the old HCP was standing in the wallet window front and center).

Never moving my hands and speaking very calmly, I inquired that I didn't think that the HCP or an yet unseen hand gun was relevant to a traffic stop, but that if he must know, the HCP was current and the handgun was unloaded, holstered and in my laptop case in the back seat and that I would cooperate without any resistance. (yeah, I know, I might as well have had a paper weight as to have been carrying an unloaded gun out of hands reach - and no, not for this instance).

At any rate, I got the ticket (no argument there, I was guilty of the violation and knew the rep of the territory).

But I don't think anybody deserves the hassle.

Opinions?

LEOS, where was the break down here?

PS. Just for s*&ts and giggles, unless something has changed since I left Metro Nashville PD (don't think so), motorcycle cops carry Glock .40s.

Only Metro SWAT are authorized to carry a .45ACP.

Edited January 5, 2009 by Todd@CIS

[Guest Astra900]

At my Dept, if someone requests, a supervisor will respond to the scene (provided they're not on something more pressing).

Different Depts have different policies, though.

If someone is not comfortable with that, they can always call one later.

Maybe I'll casually ask the chief here, next time I see him. I'll blame it on one of you guys so he don't suspect me:stalk:

[Guest Todd@CIS]

Maybe I'll casually ask the chief here, next time I see him. I'll blame it on one of you guys so he don't suspect me:stalk:

Casually nothing...you're a taxpayer and have a right to know.

[Fallguy]

Casually nothing...you're a taxpayer and have a right to know.

LOL....reminds me of the sheriff where worked once. When somebody told him that their taxes paid his salary he said he would "Mail their damn quarter back to them!" then slammed the phone down.

[Guest db99wj]

I got stopped last week, by a Memphis City officer, I was NOT speeding. I did have a brake light out, but anyway, I pulled over, immediately, window down, 3 kids in the car, She came up and said "you have a brake light out", license and insurance please. I had not had time to get the my dl out of my wallet, when she approached, I stopped and kept my hands on steering wheel. Anyway, I handed her my DL and my permit, she said insurance, I had to get into the glove dept and get that, got that, she said, "Oh, handgun permit, here you go, and handed it back to me as she went to her car to write me my ticket. I joked with her and said, my 99Jeep is falling apart on my and she laughed said she has an 06 Tahoe that is falling apart and she can't take it back to her dealer because they went bankrupt. She said, fix it, go to court and they have been dismissing them if you show proof of the fix. As we pulled off, she passed me in the 2nd lane and the car in front had a brake light out, she pulled them over too.

So this time, handed permit, but didn't say anything about it, she didn't say anything else about it other than oh, handgun permit and hand it back.