C&R Question

[Guest bkelm18]

Question: I've got a C&R FFL, now, do I have to enter a C&R weapon into my bound book if it was not purchased using my C&R FFL? For example, I purchase a C&R firearm but have it shipped to my dealer instead of to me, will I need to record that in the book or not? Thanks.

[bubbadavis]

No, your book is only for guns transfered via your C&R FFL.

[Guest bkelm18]

No, your book is only for guns transfered via your C&R FFL.

Thanks. Its been a while since I read all that stuff so I couldn't remember clearly.

[DaveTN]

Is your dealer doing a transfer? (Sorry, but you said it’s being shipped to him you didn’t say he was doing the transfer)

I keep all the guns in my house logged; C&R or not.

But I’ve never heard of a C&R holder being checked. So I guess if the ATF is looking at you, what you have logged may be the least or your problems.

[Guest Spuds]

Yes, you must log it. Here's a jbt letter stating such: http://www.cruffler.com/BATFOpenLetterToC&RHolders.pdf

Think of it this way: You do not use your license, you are licensed. Ergo, any C&R firearms you acquire must be logged.

[Guest Spuds]

Found the jbt letter I was looking for in the first place. It was originally on a geocities web site, but that site is no longer available. I found the text in a post on another forum, it's very relevent. I added the bold and red to ease finding the relevent part.

October 18, 1996

From: Jxxx Rxxx

BATF

Attn: Curios & Relics

650 Massachusetts Ave. NW

Washington, DC 20226-0013

Dear Sirs, I was talking with some fellow friends who have Curio and Relics licenses, and there seems to be a great deal of confusion over one aspect of this license. I would like to get this clarified in a written response from you, so that I can provide my friends with a copy of the ''real'' answer to these questions.

The question concerns what requirements there might be to record purchase and sale of curio and relic firearms that were acquired before receiving the C&R license or that are purchased within the state where the C&R license is not required.

* Once the license is received, do all previously owned C&R guns in your possession have to be logged in the bound book? -- NO! (A) --

* If a C&R gun that was acquired before the license was received is then subsequently sold, does that transaction have to be logged in the bound book? --NO! (A) --

* Once in possession of the C&R license, do C&R guns that are not purchased through interstate mail have to be logged in the bound bok? ie: If I buy a C&R gun from a local gun store, where the C&R license is not necessary, does that gun need to be logged in? -- YES! ( --

* If the above C&R gun, purchased locally without the C&R license, is subsequently sold, does that transaction have to be logged n the bound book? -- YES! ( --

There is one other question of a different nature that also seems to besurrounded by confusion. Since the C&R license is not for purposes of ''dealing'' in firearms, what restrictions are there upon selling pieces from your collection?

* If I purchase a gun through the mail which turns out to be of such poor quality that I don't want it, can I sell it? -- YES! © (D) --

* Do I have to hold it for a year first? -- NO! © (D) --

*If I find a higher quality rifle which duplicates one I already have, can I sll the lower quality rifle? -- YES! © (D) --

* Is there some limit on the number of trades or sales per year? -- NO! © (D) --

I've checked the Federal Firearms Regulation Reference Guide for answers to these questions, but could not find anything that addressed these issues. Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Sincerely,

Jxxx Rxxx

*******************

The BATF replied:

Department of the Treasury

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms

Washington, DC 20226

Dear Mr. Rxxx,

This is in response to your letter dated October 18, 1996, requesting information concerning the acquisition and disposition of curio and relic firearms.

In response to your questions, we feel the following information will resolve your areas of concern and confusion:

(A) Current regulations do not require licensed collectors to record in their bound book firearms acquired prior to obtaining their license. Therefore, subsequent sales of the previously acquired firearms would require no entry in your bound book records.

( If, after obtaining a license, a firearm is acquired for your personal collection, it must be entered into your bound book whether or not you use your collectors' license to purchase the weapon. See 27CFR 178.125(f). Any subsequent sale would have to be entered in your bound book records.

© You may immediately dispose of a firearm to a lawful buyer. The length of time you retain it is immaterial. The determining factor is under what circumstances it was acquired. If the firearm was acquired to enhance your personal collection, and you decide you do not like or want it, the length of time and amount it is sold for do not matter. However, if you acquire guns for the purpose of resale, for profit, you would be engaged in a firearms dealing business and would need a dealers' license. As you are aware, the definition of a dealer is ''A person who devotes time, attention and labor to dealing in firearms as a regular course of trade or business with the principle objective of livelihood and profit through the repetitive purchase and resale of firearms, but such a term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms.'' Therefore, the purpose of the transactions would be the determining factor in whether you were dealing in firearms or merely enhancing your personal collection. The mere fact that you make a profit on the sale of a firearm from your collection would not mean you were dealing in firearms. Repeated transactions which are motivated by the desire to generate profit or income rather than enhancing your collection would indicate you were dealing in furearms, not collecting. If a collector acquires curios or relics for the purpose of sale rather than to enhance a collection, the collector should be a licensed dealer in firearms.The sole intent and purpose f the collectors' license is to enable a firearms collector to obtain a curio or relic from outside his State of residence.

(D) Disposing of personal firearms for the purpose of upgrading a collection is not engaging in a firearms business.

We trust this has been responsive to your request. If we can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Sincerely yours,

Charles Bartlett

Acting Chief

Firearms and Explosives Operations Branch

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[Guest bkelm18]

Found the jbt letter I was looking for in the first place. It was originally on a geocities web site, but that site is no longer available. I found the text in a post on another forum, it's very relevent. I added the bold and red to ease finding the relevent part.

Great. Thanks for a definitive answer. I guess I need to put together a bound book then.