West Towne Mall

[Bassoneer]

What's the deal with carrying in West Towne Mall in Knoxville? My wife and I went there today (unarmed) and purposely looked for any postings - we found none. I looked on the web site for Simon Properties and found nothing about carrying weapons on Simon Properties. I have read on this forum and other places that its not allowed, but for anybody that doesn't read this forum they would have no idea it wasn't allowed. Per TN Code (Law) they need to post the entrances, which they have not done. Yet, I see on this web site (under the prohibited places section) that West Towne Mall is listed. I sent Simon Properties an e-mail a few minutes ago specifically asking the question. They do not have it posted, and don't even mention it on their web site. I will be very surprised if they respond, and even more surprised if they respond with a "yes, you can carry". If they say "no, you can't carry" then I won't carry and you guys can pretend I never wrote this (because you would still be "legal" because they don't have it posted). Either way, I'll let you know what they say (if they reply). Later, B

[Guest eyebedam]

This will be interesting.

[Garufa]

I hope the reply is not something along the lines of: "Please excuse us for our oversight. Simon Properties takes the safety of its patrons very seriously. We will correct the issue immediately by posting the proper signage to ensure your comfort and protection."

Edited December 5, 2008 by Garufa

[Mousegun]

I sent Simon Properties an e-mail a few minutes ago specifically asking the question. They do not have it posted, and don't even mention it on their web site. I will be very surprised if they respond, and even more surprised if they respond with a "yes, you can carry". If they say "no, you can't carry" then I won't carry and you guys can pretend I never wrote this (because you would still be "legal" because they don't have it posted). Either way, I'll let you know what they say (if they reply). Later, B

That is usually not the way it works. If they made an over site, they will correct it much to the detriment of us all by putting up the signs before the ink dries.

Never ask. If the sign is not there, go for it. If the sign is incorrect, you have to decide if you want to take the chance of being the "test case" if you are caught.

Either way silence is golden.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I hope the reply is not something along the lines of: "Please excuse us for our oversight. Simon Properties takes the safety of its patrons very seriously. We will correct the issue immediately by posting the proper signage to ensure your comfort and protection."

+1

That is usually not the way it works. If they made an over site, they will correct it much to the detriment of us all by putting up the signs before the ink dries.

Never ask. If the sign is not there, go for it. If the sign is incorrect, you have to decide if you want to take the chance of being the "test case" if you are caught.

Either way silence is golden.

Huge +1

Should have gone about your business, legally carrying, without drawing attention to the issue.

[Bassoneer]

I got the response from Simon Properties re West Towne. They claim it is posted at each main mall entrance. Based on the way you guys responded I'll let it lie and not push it but they obviously don't have it posted right. I probably won't carry there since I think their intent is that nobody carries. Later, B

[Fallguy]

It is up to you as to whether to carry or not. But if it is not properly posted per law, the worst they can do is ask you to leave. Short of going up to a security guard and telling them you are armed, no one should know if it is properly concealed.

I'm not sure about this place, but many places on our Off-Limits places are not properly posted per law, I think a person that puts a place on the list can denote if it properly posted or not, but they are on there because of either an improper posting has been seen or the person was informed by some other means. Some want to know if it is against a places policy even if it not properly posted.

[Oh Shoot]

I don't go to malls much period, but maybe wind up at West Town for something or other 3 times per year.

I've always gone in through one of the anchor stores, never seen a sign.

So, you know....

Same for the often mentioned Hamilton Place in 'Nooga.

- OS

[Guest nraforlife]

JC y'all not a Kwik clone I hope!!

[Guest jwp]

I wonder if they're being lazy since the law states no carry in places that sell alcohol for consumption and they have a Ruby Tuesday and a couple of places in the food court where you can get beer.

[Guest dwrd]

I wonder if they're being lazy since the law states no carry in places that sell alcohol for consumption and they have a Ruby Tuesday and a couple of places in the food court where you can get beer.

Having been a manager at a mall store in the past, each store is their own seperate business. An included store ends at their doors, so they would have to have their own postings into the common area of the mall as well, similar to how Bass Pro does at their exit into the common area of Opry Mills mall.

[Guest jwp]

Having been a manager at a mall store in the past, each store is their own seperate business. An included store ends at their doors, so they would have to have their own postings into the common area of the mall as well, similar to how Bass Pro does at their exit into the common area of Opry Mills mall.

I can understand and appreciate that each store is it's own business, but the mall is "within the confines of a building open to the public" where those beverages are sold for consumption.

[Mike.357]

I can understand and appreciate that each store is it's own business, but the mall is "within the confines of a building open to the public" where those beverages are sold for consumption.

If you buy an alcoholic beverage there are you allowed to wander the mall with it?

Anyway I cannot think of one reason to go to a mall.

[Guest Traumaslave]

If you buy an alcoholic beverage there are you allowed to wander the mall with it?

Sure would make Christmas shopping alot more enjoyable.

[Fallguy]

I can understand and appreciate that each store is it's own business, but the mall is "within the confines of a building open to the public" where those beverages are sold for consumption.

See AG Opinion 07-43 I think if each business is considered separate, then just because one sells alcohol doesn't make the whole mall off limits.

However if we can't get restaurant carry passed, I would like to see a more specific AG ruling about places like malls, hotels, bowling alleys, etc... where alcohol is served in part of the building, but not the whole building.

[Guest jwp]

See AG Opinion 07-43 I think if each business is considered separate, then just because one sells alcohol doesn't make the whole mall off limits.

However if we can't get restaurant carry passed, I would like to see a more specific AG ruling about places like malls, hotels, bowling alleys, etc... where alcohol is served in part of the building, but not the whole building.

I don't think that the AG opinion will hold water if someone were to press the issue. The mall fits the legal definition of an area which would be off limits to carry simply because it is an open to the pubic building where alcohol is sold for on-site consumption. There are no markers to keep someone from buying a beer at the hot dog stand and then taking it with them to another part of the mall.

[Guest nraforlife]

I don't think that the AG opinion will hold water if someone were to press the issue. The mall fits the legal definition of an area which would be off limits to carry simply because it is an open to the pubic building where alcohol is sold for on-site consumption. There are no markers to keep someone from buying a beer at the hot dog stand and then taking it with them to another part of the mall.

Would be REAL interesting to see what would happen if you did...

1) Carry concealed and by that I mean tucked in and completely hidden

2) Don't be a Kwik and stir up mgmt

[Fallguy]

I don't think that the AG opinion will hold water if someone were to press the issue. The mall fits the legal definition of an area which would be off limits to carry simply because it is an open to the pubic building where alcohol is sold for on-site consumption. There are no markers to keep someone from buying a beer at the hot dog stand and then taking it with them to another part of the mall.

True, but when you go to bike night somewhere and they sell beer inside and you carry it out to the parking lot, that is legal and you can carry in the parking lot. So the law doesn't automatically prohibit carry where alcohol is consumed.

The fact that any one business in the mall can close off it's doors and for all practical purposes separate/isolate itself would make some sort of difference you'd think.

Of course I truly hope in the coming months all of this debate is moot anyway...

[Guest nraforlife]

I was at West Town earlier today and didn't see the doors posted at the department store I entered.

[Tobashadow]

What's the deal with carrying in West Towne Mall in Knoxville? My wife and I went there today (unarmed) and purposely looked for any postings - we found none. I looked on the web site for Simon Properties and found nothing about carrying weapons on Simon Properties. I have read on this forum and other places that its not allowed, but for anybody that doesn't read this forum they would have no idea it wasn't allowed. Per TN Code (Law) they need to post the entrances, which they have not done. Yet, I see on this web site (under the prohibited places section) that West Towne Mall is listed. I sent Simon Properties an e-mail a few minutes ago specifically asking the question. They do not have it posted, and don't even mention it on their web site. I will be very surprised if they respond, and even more surprised if they respond with a "yes, you can carry". If they say "no, you can't carry" then I won't carry and you guys can pretend I never wrote this (because you would still be "legal" because they don't have it posted). Either way, I'll let you know what they say (if they reply). Later, B

[Guest nraforlife]

Come on y'all show some sense will you! If the place isn't properly posted, or not posted at all, shut up and go about your business. Awhile ago we had a real horses ass on this forum start up a load of horse dung at OpryMills in Nashville over the same sort of issue. There is no obligation for anyone to explain to an owner that their place isn't posted properly, in fact doing so just ends up making it really off-limits to those of us who used to carry there. Right now the most an improperly posted place can do is to ask you to leave, do so or get charged with trespassing, once posted correctly its now a Class B misdemeanor - fixed thanks all.

Let sleeping dogs lay!!!

Edited December 7, 2008 by nraforlife

[Oh Shoot]

... once posted correctly its now a felony...

No, it's not.

- OS

[Fallguy]

No, it's not.

- OS

Correct, Class B Misdemeanor based on the $500 fine.

40-35-111(e)(2)

Edited December 7, 2008 by Fallguy

[ajclod]

I personally don't go the the mall often, but do make it a point to look for postings at every business that I enter. Never seen one at West Town.

So, I don't hesitate to carry when I have to be there.

[Guest nraforlife]

Correct, Class B Misdemeanor based on the $500 fine.

40-35-111(e)(2)

Your correct my bad and now fixed. Doesn't change the fact that it is not up to a HCP holder to inform or enlighten a business that their no gun sign isn't quite valid. And to do so only screws it up for those of us who carry there. So don't do it!!!

Edited December 7, 2008 by nraforlife