Considering a small SUV-AWD

[MacGyver]

It's funny how when someone has a car that had issues, every car by that manufacturer is junk.  I simply say this as a general statement, not directed at anyone.  I have a Titan and it is a great vehicle.  I and I suspect many others know many people who work at Nissan and overall, there are probably more Nissan's in Middle Tennessee than just about anywhere in the country.  I don't hear a lot about people not liking their Nissans.  

 

Pick any manufacturer and someone will tell you they are junk.  To equate it to guns, I personally would never own a Mossberg because when I grew up, Mossberg equalled cheap crap.  I suspect they are better today, but if someone asks me, I will never pick a Mossberg model to recommend.

 

I think all cars are 100x's the quality today that they were even 20 years ago.  With proper maintenance and care, almost any of them should have the ability to be a good car.  Go drive them all and pick the one you like best.  I probably drove 40 cars before buying my last car.  I was very surprised at the cars I ended up liking and those I didn't.  I can tell you some of the most expensive cars impressed me the least.  

 

I think you're right about that.

 

It's funny, though.  We've got two Nissans right now.  An '08 Pathfinder and an '06 Xterra OffRoad.  The Pathfinder has 165K miles and the Xterra has 192K miles and has pulled a boat thousands of miles.  I've replaced the clutch and the catalytic converters on the Xterra, but nothing else major on either.  By any measure, these have been great dependable cars.  Neither one has ever given us any trouble.  That said, when it's time to replace them, I'm going back to Toyotas.  I can't put my finger on it, but when someone asks me to compare the Xterra to my old 4Runner, I don't hesitate to say the 4Runner was a better truck - even though I can't really put my finger on the exact reasoning. 

 

Truth is the most of the mid-sized SUVs ought to do anything you need them to do within the use cases for which they're intended.  For me, I don't really care if my truck will do it.  If there's snow and ice on the ground, and I don't have to get out, I'm not going to.  It's a free-for-all in the South when there's ice on the ground.  It doesn't matter what you combination of skills and your vehicle's capabilities are.  It's everyone else out there that thinks they've got the same that are going to get you in trouble.

[peejman]

Nissan has one of the lowest "quality defects per unit sold" of all major manufacturers. Kia is right up there too. Hyundai has one of the highest amount of defects of anyone.

 

 

Which is curious in that Hyundai and Kia are the same company. 

[QuietDan]

I'm doing my research and due dilligance on a pending small SUV/AWD vehicle. Currently I'm looking seriously at the Subaru Forester and Ford Edge. With those selections you can pretty well determine the price range I'm leaning towards. The four-cylinder engine in the Subaru kind of concerns me but it does have pretty good HP.  I  generally look first at slightly used vehicles but have sometimes purchased year end models when the price was right. Do any of you have recommendations?

 

 

My wife is extremely satisfied with her 2014 Subaru Forester. The CVT transmission is very solid, and with it's 2.5L four-cylinder boxer engine (essentially an airplane engine) provides more pickup than our classic Cherokee with a 4.0L six-cylinder engine. The AWD is excellent as well. The darn thing gets 30 miles to the gallon!

[Monkeybat]

It's funny how when someone has a car that had issues, every car by that manufacturer is junk.  I simply say this as a general statement, not directed at anyone.  I have a Titan and it is a great vehicle.  I and I suspect many others know many people who work at Nissan and overall, there are probably more Nissan's in Middle Tennessee than just about anywhere in the country.  I don't hear a lot about people not liking their Nissans.  

 

Pick any manufacturer and someone will tell you they are junk.  To equate it to guns, I personally would never own a Mossberg because when I grew up, Mossberg equalled cheap crap.  I suspect they are better today, but if someone asks me, I will never pick a Mossberg model to recommend.

 

I think all cars are 100x's the quality today that they were even 20 years ago.  With proper maintenance and care, almost any of them should have the ability to be a good car.  Go drive them all and pick the one you like best.  I probably drove 40 cars before buying my last car.  I was very surprised at the cars I ended up liking and those I didn't.  I can tell you some of the most expensive cars impressed me the least.  

 

My experience with Nissan is not only with my personal vehicle but from insider industry connections.  I know for a fact that the six cylinder motor they used for at least 8 years had a known head gasket problem.  It's a design flaw and Nissan just loved replacing head gaskets at full price instead of recalling it and fixing it for free like they should have done.  Cheap part, $2500 in labor.  It's why my Exterra still leaks some oil.  I'm not putting that kind of money in a 2002.  The problem itself started after about six years and the car has roughly 105,000 miles on it.  Spent it's life in a garage, made every scheduled service and it's still a POS.  We would have bought a Murano in a heartbeat if this hadn't happened.  My next car is narrowed down to a Wrangler Unlimited or an F-150 Quad Cab.  Both used of course!    

 

Unfortunately they both hold high resale values.  Wranglers have the lowest initial quality vehicle studies, yet hold the highest residual value of any car on the road.  Go figure.  I've been baffled by that for years.

[Hozzie]

My experience with Nissan is not only with my personal vehicle but from insider industry connections.  I know for a fact that the six cylinder motor they used for at least 8 years had a known head gasket problem.  It's a design flaw and Nissan just loved replacing head gaskets at full price instead of recalling it and fixing it for free like they should have done.  Cheap part, $2500 in labor.  It's why my Exterra still leaks some oil.  I'm not putting that kind of money in a 2002.  The problem itself started after about six years and the car has roughly 105,000 miles on it.  Spent it's life in a garage, made every scheduled service and it's still a POS.  We would have bought a Murano in a heartbeat if this hadn't happened.  My next car is narrowed down to a Wrangler Unlimited or an F-150 Quad Cab.  Both used of course!    

 

Unfortunately they both hold high resale values.  Wranglers have the lowest initial quality vehicle studies, yet hold the highest residual value of any car on the road.  Go figure.  I've been baffled by that for years.

 

Can't say I have heard this issue, but I will check.  I have many very good friends who work at Corporate, some on the top floor.  I am not saying it isn't true, but I know her husband has a early 2000's Xterra and he is looking to get a new one now that they are discontinuing them.  He hasn't mentioned once an issue with oil.    As with any car and any dealer, when it is out of warranty, none of them are going to give you a free $2500 fix.  6 Years old, 105k miles, no one is warrantying that unless you paid for an extended warrranty.

 

Not trying to convince anyone to buy or not buy a Nissan, but for me, your argument doesn't to me make me believe any manufacturer would do any different.  You just happen to have an issue you think should have been fixed.  There are plenty of people with Toyota's, Chevy's, Fords, etc that could say the exact same thing.  

Edited January 25, 2016 by Hozzie

[Hozzie]

Which is curious in that Hyundai and Kia are the same company. 

 

Technically sister companies, same parent company.

[MacGyver]

My next truck is likely going to be a new Tacoma.  They've really done something pretty cool with the Crawl Control - which is relevant to this thread since we've been talking about getting around in the slush:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRLxRiUHvxo

 

At least I thought I was pretty sold on it until I checked out TGO David's Tundra.  The back seat in that thing may as well have taken the couch out of the living room and just stuck it in there.  If any of the rest of my family sees that, I may have to trade up.

[MrsMonkeyMan2500]

My next truck is likely going to be a new Tacoma. They've really done something pretty cool with the Crawl Control - which is relevant to this thread since we've been talking about getting around in the slush:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRLxRiUHvxo

At least I thought I was pretty sold on it until I checked out TGO David's Tundra. The back seat in that thing may as well have taken the couch out of the living room and just stuck it in there. If any of the rest of my family sees that, I may have to trade up.

Agh! Agreed! Especially a 1794 edition! Whew! That's a big ol honkin truck. Made in Texas. If you trade up, make sure you share!

[tercel89]

I'm doing my research and due dilligance on a pending small SUV/AWD vehicle. Currently I'm looking seriously at the Subaru Forester and Ford Edge. With those selections you can pretty well determine the price range I'm leaning towards. The four-cylinder engine in the Subaru kind of concerns me but it does have pretty good HP.  I  generally look first at slightly used vehicles but have sometimes purchased year end models when the price was right. Do any of you have recommendations?

 

 I believed you told me once that you worked where I do now so you know how crappy American cars can be especially the Fords we use here. I am a hobby mechanic and have been for over 30 years and all  I have are Japanese . Just look at my user name here , it's the name of one of the most reliable cars of all time by Toyota. I recommend the Subaru . Especially since it's engine is longitudinal and not Transverse (sideways like most fornt wheel drives). The Longitudinal engines are traditional positioned and have more room to work on them if need be and the transmission is behind them like old school traditional ones.  I say go with the Subaru . Before you buy just check the engine oil and transmission fluid . Check to see if it smokes or burns oil when you start it up . Take your time and dont get in a hurry .

Edited January 26, 2016 by tercel89

[Caster]

Mac, you will NEVER regret the Taco.

 

Toyota has me hooked.

 

Do pony up for a v6.  The 4 cylinder is pretty pathetic.  Might run forever and get great mileage but it suffers from anemia.  The wife got one as a rental when her car needed servicing.  It was a great ride....but weak.  the 4.0l V6 is AWESOME though.  

[Monkeybat]

I'd take 1 Subaru to two Fords.  A friend of mine has a WRX STI that is an absolute blast to drive.  And, it will carry the groceries and kids home in the snow!  If I ever find myself in a situation where I'm car shopping a Subaru will be the first thing that I look at.  Until then I'll be practical and continue to drive my truck.

 

 

I love the WRX STi's  Yeah, I'm driving a four door.  Would you like to race....  I didn't think so.

 

I've driven some pretty elaborate sports cars while working in the auto industry and this thing is a monster on take off.

 

You can only apply so much horsepower to two wheels before you do nothing but smoke the tires.  The WRX solves this problem and can apply all horsepower to four wheels for a brutal takeoff.  I'd say just a tad over 4 seconds to 60.  The big difference is that most people could get four seconds 60 times in a Subaru, it takes a real driver to pull it off in a high performance real wheel drive car.  

 

I lost a race when I was 16 in a 5.0 mustang to a GMC truck with a 350 in it.  He took off and I sat still spinning the wheels overconfident I could toast any truck so I stomped it.  Bad idea.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Monkeybat

[tercel89]

Mac, you will NEVER regret the Taco.

 

Toyota has me hooked.

 

Do pony up for a v6.  The 4 cylinder is pretty pathetic.  Might run forever and get great mileage but it suffers from anemia.  The wife got one as a rental when her car needed servicing.  It was a great ride....but weak.  the 4.0l V6 is AWESOME though.  

 

 I have the Tacoma 2003 4WD with the 2.7 4CYL . It is bulletproof and proven for several years especially in Africa , South America and here .  I prefer the 4 cyclinder over the v6 since reliability seems to be better. If you need more power just put the transfer case into 4-Low and it will pull a tree stump out of the ground . I have pulled several vehicle out of ditches and a few Ford F250's . The Toyota 2.7 liter is tough as nails ! It does use quite a bit of gas . I average only 18 MPG .

[Hozzie]

I like the Tacoma's, I just wish they had more room inside.  I am big guy and it just isn't very comfortable.  I had a brand new one in 1998 with the 4 cylinder and ended up getting rid of it because I could barely do 70 in a good headwind.  I suspect the newer 4's have a lot more power than they did then, but I would go with the 6.  My brother has the six in his and he likes it a lot.  

 

I drove the WRX STI before I bought my BMW 340i.  I agree with Monkeybat that it had a ton of torque, but it wasn't something that I would want to drive every day.  And I am not really a hood scoop guy.  It was so torquey (sp) that I was constantly being slung forward and backward even when taking it easy.  I think someone else hit it on the head, they just aren't quite as refined as some other cars, but if that is what I wanted, I wouldn't be worried about quality or longevity.

[Monkeybat]

I like the Tacoma's, I just wish they had more room inside.  I am big guy and it just isn't very comfortable.  I had a brand new one in 1998 with the 4 cylinder and ended up getting rid of it because I could barely do 70 in a good headwind.  I suspect the newer 4's have a lot more power than they did then, but I would go with the 6.  My brother has the six in his and he likes it a lot.  

 

I drove the WRX STI before I bought my BMW 340i.  I agree with Monkeybat that it had a ton of torque, but it wasn't something that I would want to drive every day.  And I am not really a hood scoop guy.  It was so torquey (sp) that I was constantly being slung forward and backward even when taking it easy.  I think someone else hit it on the head, they just aren't quite as refined as some other cars, but if that is what I wanted, I wouldn't be worried about quality or longevity.

 

I always thought of the WRX STi as a rich kids car.  You feel every bump in the road, but they sure are fun.  When I was a director for one of the local Subaru dealers, a grand father came in and bought his son a brand new STi loaded to the gills.  Paid cash $51k.  He said the boy needs a new car!  He just totaled his 300Z.  I looked at him and said, then this car will kill him if he hasn't learned his lesson.

[Patton]

The 4.0 Tacoma engine is decent all around. It is a huge improvement over the previous 3.4l. The 2.7 from the first generation and the second generation is, according to my mechanic, the best engine ever put in a vehicle. My father totaled one with nearly 600k miles on the original motor and I would bet that it could have seen one million miles. I think the autos have too high of a fourth gear making the engine feel underpowered.

[ncomarc]

I have the Tacoma 2003 4WD with the 2.7 4CYL . It is bulletproof and proven for several years especially in Africa , South America and here .  I prefer the 4 cyclinder over the v6 since reliability seems to be better. If you need more power just put the transfer case into 4-Low and it will pull a tree stump out of the ground . I have pulled several vehicle out of ditches and a few Ford F250's . The Toyota 2.7 liter is tough as nails ! It does use quite a bit of gas . I average only 18 MPG .

Things haven't changed much, I could almost match you word for word when describing my '86 Toyota truck......

[MacGyver]

The 4.0 Tacoma engine is decent all around. It is a huge improvement over the previous 3.4l. The 2.7 from the first generation and the second generation is, according to my mechanic, the best engine ever put in a vehicle. My father totaled one with nearly 600k miles on the original motor and I would bet that it could have seen one million miles. I think the autos have too high of a fourth gear making the engine feel underpowered.

 

I would have likely said the same thing about the 4.2L 6-cylinder from my '77 FJ40.  That thing was bullet proof.  

 

I complain about the 3.4L V-6 that was in my 1996 4Runner, either.  The odometer on that one recently rolled 400K.

[NextExit]

What gets me is how people complain about the fuel economy of their 4x4 SUV.  Maybe it's just me but I didn't buy a Land Rover for fuel economy. :2cents:

A friend of mine was bragging about how great his Toyota Matrix is on gas... I said "good, that means you can stay warm for a longer amount of time while you're in the ditch." :P

[tercel89]

The 4.0 Tacoma engine is decent all around. It is a huge improvement over the previous 3.4l. The 2.7 from the first generation and the second generation is, according to my mechanic, the best engine ever put in a vehicle. My father totaled one with nearly 600k miles on the original motor and I would bet that it could have seen one million miles. I think the autos have too high of a fourth gear making the engine feel underpowered.

 

 The 2.7 is my favorite Japanese engine :rock:  . Want to know my favorite American Engine ? The 1984-1986 Ford SVO Engine the 2.3 Turbo Intercooled . The Ford SVO , in my opinion , was the best Mustang ever !

Sorry to get off topic , I got wrapped up in the moment LOL.

Edited January 26, 2016 by tercel89

[SupaRice]

Can't go wrong with a Subaru, we had a WRX wagon and it was solid. I've known a lot of people who have owned Subaru, all had stellar experience. If you get a Subaru, get the turbo. They've got power and are fun to drive.

I saw Toyota mentioned, we have a 2010 SR5 4runner. Her dad has an old one with like 300k on it, from my experience everything you hear about Toyota and reliability is true.

However, that being said I hate it. Every Toyota I have ever driven is woefully underpowered, even with the v6 (tundra excluded). The Tacoma is a cute little truck, but I've owned all kinds of trucks big and small and I can tell you first hand that a small truck isn't worth it. They don't give you any meaningful additional benefit in fuel mileage over a full size truck (f150 size), can't carry nearly as much as with a full size truck,and don't have any room inside of them. The Tacoma specifically has barely enough power to get itself down the road so pulling anything would be a nightmare. I have a 17 foot aluminum boat that I've pulled with her 4runner for example, and it's a PITA.

And this statement is sure to draw ridicule ..... but the FJ as far as an off road vehicle is a joke. A used jeep off Craigslist for $5k will go further, if off road is what you're into. Edited January 26, 2016 by SupaRice

[Caster]

Yeah, plenty of ridicule. I have an '07 FJ and its a dang tank. I've had it buried to the running boards in creek gravel and out it came. I've crossed a horse pasture at over 50 mph without hitting the bump stops.

I pulled my neighbor out of his yard today. His Nissan truck was buried to the axles in mud. I almost idled him out.

I'd rather push my FJ than drive a Jeep and with the maintenance schedule I keep, it'll be here as long as any jeep of similar age. Edited January 26, 2016 by Caster

[SupaRice]

Although, I should add that I drove a Rav4 that belonged to the wife's friend, and it actually was pretty peppy, and AWD.... Since the original post was about "small SUV". And the back seat had surprising leg room, which as you could imagine cut down on cargo space.

 

Yeah, plenty of ridicule. I have an '07 FJ and its a dang tank. I've had it buried to the running boards in creek gravel and out it came. I've crossed a horse pasture at over 50 mph without hitting the bump stops.

I pulled my neighbor out of his yard today. His Nissan truck was buried to the axles in mud. I almost idled him out.

I'd rather push my FJ than drive a Jeep and with the maintenance schedule I keep, it'll be here as long as any jeep of similar age.

 

No offense intended. Just my observations, based on my off-road time.

I've met a lot of folks like you. The Land Rover guys feel the same way, and go about as far as the Yota crowd.  :yuck:

Edited January 26, 2016 by SupaRice

[Patton]

However, that being said I hate it. Every Toyota I have ever driven is woefully underpowered, even with the v6 (tundra excluded). The Tacoma is a cute little truck, but I've owned all kinds of trucks big and small and I can tell you first hand that a small truck isn't worth it. They don't give you any meaningful additional benefit in fuel mileage over a full size truck (f150 size), can't carry nearly as much as with a full size truck,and don't have any room inside of them. The Tacoma specifically has barely enough power to get itself down the road so pulling anything would be a nightmare. I have a 17 foot aluminum boat that I've pulled with her 4runner for example, and it's a PITA.

Well, that's your opinion, but my findings differ. As a teen and young adult I put several Tacomas through more work than most 1 tons see and they held up well. I didn't enjoy my 2013 pre runner as much as my old 04 Prerunner but I did like the 13's 24 mpg. Yeah, the new f150s get that or something close, but I do not like driving a full size truck everyday. I love the maneuverability of my 2dr Wrangler. Which brings me to the next point I never lost more than $2,000 on a Wrangler or Tacoma. I sold my 2004 Prerunner three years later with 40k miles on it for $1500 less than I paid for it new. I drove my 2013 for two years and then TRADED it with only losing $2k. You can't do that with an F150. Edited January 26, 2016 by Patton

[Tncobra]

Baru Crosstrek

Edited January 26, 2016 by Tncobra

[leroy]

It must be a moon phase thing... Need to check the almanac....

 

...Toyota v6's underpowered...?  Interestin... All of mine must have been defective... They all run very well... Tacoma Twin Cab Pre-Runner and ...FJ's included...

 

....FJ aint an off road vehicle...?  Interestin too... Mine is... And ive got a 99 Wrangler with a 3 inch lift and an inline 4.0...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T1LNIHi9Xrg

 

Wonderin leroy....

Edited January 26, 2016 by leroy